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-   -   Revisiting an old issue.. Vibration/Jerk in the rear (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=951154)

jeepo23 10-18-2012 12:58 PM

Revisiting an old issue.. Vibration/Jerk in the rear
 
okay, about a year ago I picked up my 330xi. manual.. at the beginning I noticed a shake/hesitation/jerk at around 2-2.5k rpm in second gear. After reading numerous threads on what it could be I checked a few things and this past Spring 2012 I did a bunch of maintanance to *hopefully* address that.

- My left rear axle was shot - Ordered a new one from BMWparts (OEM).
- While down there I rebuild my rear right one also, it was still good with a minor boot tear, so fresh grease, new clamps good to go.
- Also while doing that I changed out all my fluids, diffs, trans, tcase with redline stuff.
- Also I was due for new tires so I slapped some new ones on (**thought the vibration was before due to somewhat bald tires**).
- Has nothing to do with the hesitation/jerk but I did my OFHG.
- Also put in new spark plugs, NGK as recommended on here.
- Replaced my RTAB's last December 2011 with OEM M3 ones.
- Also earlier this year I replaced the flex disc and CSB because everyone was saying that's probably where its coming from. After getting to the part, I noticed both components were in mint condition but I changed them out anyways as I had the parts in my hands.

After that tune up the car felt great, shifting smooth and summer was there so it was warmer climates of course, didn't have a whole lot of chances to drive it as I have another vehicle and I was away for work a lot but the BMW performed flawless.

Just recently my other car was put in storage and now in the mornings I find I have that vibration again in the XI.. It seems to be when its colder that its more noticable, the rpm range is certainly between 2-3k rpm while accelerating in 2nd. Also I am certain this is coming from the rear end.

Some of the other things I've checked and read about...

- I checked my engine mounts, had someone rev the engine while I was watching it my engine has no movement. It's in there solid.
- Suspension was not too long ago replaced by PO straight from BWM dealership and I have the invoices so I know its not lies.. And the car feels tight. Also, the car has 217,000 KM on it but handles better than most of the rentals I've driven that contain like less than 10,000 KM on them.
- Oh and no errors codes or CEL rights after doing a scan with INPA

So please, can anyone help me out here? What else is to check/do? Please help me out!

jeepo23 10-19-2012 06:59 PM

No one has anything for me? :(

fastjasonbmw 10-19-2012 07:29 PM

Perhaps vanos seals...if the symptoms go away after the engine has reached operating temperature.
http://www.beisansystems.com/

On the other hand its pretty difficult to diagnose a vibration/hesitation without feeling it.

jeepo23 10-19-2012 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastjasonbmw (Post 14830143)
Perhaps vanos seals...if the symptoms go away after the engine has reached operating temperature.
http://www.beisansystems.com/

On the other hand its pretty difficult to diagnose a vibration/hesitation without feeling it.

Ya I totally understand wish I could explain it more but it's a vibration for sure.

So from what I understand the vanos is just a bunch of seals/gaskets. Would this really cause a vibration tho?

After reading more info on vanos.. I believe my problem is just the outside ambient temperature not the actual engine itself. Because even on a warmer day the engine needs to warm up but doesn't exhibit this issue but yet it should if it would be affected by vanos. Am I correct?

jeepo23 10-21-2012 08:10 AM

So no one has any further help for me?

Bet if this was a question on how to install AES it would be 5 pages by now.. :P

SamDoe1 10-22-2012 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepo23 (Post 14833058)
So no one has any further help for me?

Bet if this was a question on how to install AES it would be 5 pages by now.. :P

Jeebus, it's Sunday night and you probably won't get many responses over the weekend so take a chill pill.

The VANOS seals will likely address your hesitation issues. Also check out the DISA valve, ICV, intake track, throttle body for sticking, and clean the MAF.

Vibration from the rear and hesitation are usually not related. Have you checked your rear diff for proper fluid level? How about your rear CV axle boots? Rear trailing arm bushings (RTABs) often contribute to vibration from the rear as well.

Go check this stuff out and report back.

SamDoe1 10-22-2012 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepo23 (Post 14830262)
Ya I totally understand wish I could explain it more but it's a vibration for sure.

So from what I understand the vanos is just a bunch of seals/gaskets. Would this really cause a vibration tho?

After reading more info on vanos.. I believe my problem is just the outside ambient temperature not the actual engine itself. Because even on a warmer day the engine needs to warm up but doesn't exhibit this issue but yet it should if it would be affected by vanos. Am I correct?

A bunch of seals and gaskets that are affected by oil and oil temp... Like I said, the vibration and hesitation are probably not related.

jeepo23 10-22-2012 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamDoe1 (Post 14835845)
Jeebus, it's Sunday night and you probably won't get many responses over the weekend so take a chill pill.

The VANOS seals will likely address your hesitation issues. Also check out the DISA valve, ICV, intake track, throttle body for sticking, and clean the MAF.

Vibration from the rear and hesitation are usually not related. Have you checked your rear diff for proper fluid level? How about your rear CV axle boots? Rear trailing arm bushings (RTABs) often contribute to vibration from the rear as well.

Go check this stuff out and report back.

Thanks for the info.

I guess the actual word I was looking for was vibration not really hesitation.
Im pretty sure my VANOS is the not the culprit.

Forgot to mention also RTABS I replaced last December 2011.

Everything you state to check on is already done/replaced.

Like I stated, my vibration seems to come from OUTSIDE temperature no matter what my engine temperature is at.

SamDoe1 10-22-2012 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepo23 (Post 14835855)
Thanks for the info.

I guess the actual word I was looking for was vibration not really hesitation.
Im pretty sure my VANOS is the not the culprit.

Forgot to mention also RTABS I replaced last December 2011.

Everything you state to check on as already done/replaced.

When were they done/replaced? I've had DISA valves go bad in a year.

You stated "shake/hesitation/jerk"...that means both vibration and hesitation right?

jeepo23 10-22-2012 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamDoe1 (Post 14835866)
When were they done/replaced? I've had DISA valves go bad in a year.

You stated "shake/hesitation/jerk"...that means both vibration and hesitation right?

Guess I am trying to explain my issue to the best possible way without having someone sit in the car with me considering this is a forum.

I changed the thread title to make it easier to understand. Let's move on with the fact that it's a vibration.

DISA valve was not replaced, DISA symptoms from reading threads indicate either some sort of error codes (which I have none) or a rough Idle which again my car doesnt seem to exhibit.

Kubica 10-22-2012 11:13 AM

It's a vibration in the rear, only in 2nd, only between 2-3000 rpm?

Sounds like a transfer case issue to me. I'd start by changing the TC and rear diff fluid.

SamDoe1 10-22-2012 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepo23 (Post 14835874)
Guess I am trying to explain my issue to the best possible way without having someone sit in the car with me considering this is a forum.

I changed the thread title to make it easier to understand. Let's move on with the fact that it's a vibration.

DISA valve was not replaced, DISA symptoms from reading threads indicate either some sort of error codes (which I have none) or a rough Idle which again my car doesnt seem to exhibit.

Sorry, the DISA won't cause vibration. I was still going down the hesitation path.

I agree with replacing/checking the fluid levels in both the TC and the rear diff.

jeepo23 10-22-2012 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubica (Post 14836023)
It's a vibration in the rear, only in 2nd, only between 2-3000 rpm?

Sounds like a transfer case issue to me. I'd start by changing the TC and rear diff fluid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamDoe1 (Post 14836044)
Sorry, the DISA won't cause vibration. I was still going down the hesitation path.

I agree with replacing/checking the fluid levels in both the TC and the rear diff.

Already done, both diffs, tc and transmission fluid were changed back in April of this year with Redline stuff.

SamDoe1 10-22-2012 12:44 PM

Can you describe how bad the vibration is? Can you feel it through the steering wheel at all or is it all in the seat? Also, just to clarify, there's no vibration in anything but 2nd gear?

jeepo23 10-22-2012 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamDoe1 (Post 14836364)
Can you describe how bad the vibration is? Can you feel it through the steering wheel at all or is it all in the seat? Also, just to clarify, there's no vibration in anything but 2nd gear?

Well the vibration is felt in the drivers seat, my passenger wouldn't feel it.
You cannot feel it in the steering wheel, only in the seat.

The vibration is there at the higher RPM of 1st gear before shifting into 2nd and then up to about 3k in 2nd.

Once in 3rd gear and up you don't feel anything or in highway speeds.

And like I stated in my first post, seems like its more noticeable in the mornings when it's colder out.

Kubica 10-22-2012 01:07 PM

Does it still vibrate at 2500 rpm in second if you push the clutch in quickly and hold it in while still traveling the same speed (whatever speed 2500 rpm in 2nd gear is)?

I think TC, clutch, or flywheel may be the issue.

jeepo23 10-22-2012 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubica (Post 14836427)
Does it still vibrate at 2500 rpm in second if you push the clutch in quickly and hold it in while still traveling the same speed (whatever speed 2500 rpm in 2nd gear is)?

I think TC, clutch, or flywheel may be the issue.

Never tried this, but certainly will after work if I feel the vibration if not it will have to wait until the AM when its colder out again.

You keep saying TC.. when I did my flex disc/CSB I did notice that the Trans mount looked a bit weary. Wondering if this would result in a vibration?

GSherbs 10-22-2012 01:14 PM

Have you inspected your wheel bearings?

A long shot as I wouldn't expect failure here to cause vibration as much as outright noise but it sounds like you've already addressed the most likely issues.

Also take a look at your drive shafts (although you probably already have) - maybe they are out of balance some how?

I'm not 100% convinced that the ambient temperature isn't just a red herring.

Tough problem - hope you find it though - and, of course, let us know! Its rare around here for someone to have a completely unique problem.

jeepo23 10-23-2012 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubica (Post 14836427)
Does it still vibrate at 2500 rpm in second if you push the clutch in quickly and hold it in while still traveling the same speed (whatever speed 2500 rpm in 2nd gear is)?

I think TC, clutch, or flywheel may be the issue.

Tried that this morning, as hard as it is to feel it due to the RPM instantly dropping once I push the clutch in I believe it actually goes away.

Appears that the vibration is there on acceleration/constant push on RPM.

Also I confirm its there in 1st gear once I hit 2.5k and up in the RPM range for shifting into 2nd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSherbs (Post 14836452)
Have you inspected your wheel bearings?

A long shot as I wouldn't expect failure here to cause vibration as much as outright noise but it sounds like you've already addressed the most likely issues.

Also take a look at your drive shafts (although you probably already have) - maybe they are out of balance some how?

I'm not 100% convinced that the ambient temperature isn't just a red herring.

Tough problem - hope you find it though - and, of course, let us know! Its rare around here for someone to have a completely unique problem.

Yah I was down by the driveshaft earlier this year and not quite sure how you can even tell if the thing is out of balance?

No strange noise coming from wheels that would indicate wheel bearings..

jeepo23 10-25-2012 12:14 PM

4 Attachment(s)
So what do you guys say? I'm tempted to get down there and swap the transfer case support mount . Here is a few pics of it from last year when I was doing my flex disc/CSB.

Number 2 in the below link.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...59&hg=22&fg=10


From what I keep reading tho is this bushings symptoms are to do with the shifter moving around and what not while I'm not really have that issues.


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