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-   -   SMG with HPF clutch stage 2 - WOW (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=952245)

Tiago 10-24-2012 12:57 PM

SMG with HPF clutch stage 2 - WOW
 
After the ESS VT2-550 install, the gears change became a bit sluggish compared with N/A setup. It was obvious that the stock clutch besides handling with no slippage from low to mid revs, near the redline it couldn't handle pretty well at this power level and was delaying a bit the shifting. S6 seemed like S3 in normal conditions.

At the time that i bought the ESS kit i also ordered the HPF Clutch stage 2 but had it in the shelf waiting the stock clutch to worn. Lately, i had some problems with stuck gears R, 2nd and 5th (or missing gears 1st, 4th and 6th). After some research, it pointed to two possible problems: broken springs or bad gear identification switch. I bought all this parts to avoid a trial and error:

Compression spring - 23311228393
Compression spring - 23111222720
Compression spring - 23317511337
Compression spring - 23311228405
Gear position sensor - 23412229792

Since to install some springs it needs to remove the gearbox, i also decided to mount the HPF clutch to avoid another gearbox removal in a near future.

After all mounted and SMG adaptation i took it for a spin. Now, what a difference... Gear shifting feels like when i bought the car, firm and quick but at this power level. Couldn't be happier with the car. I fall in love again. This car is a hate and love neverending story. I hope that this love period remains for a long long time.

Steve-O-727 10-24-2012 08:21 PM

Nice!!! Good to know!!! :)

HPF Chris 10-24-2012 08:33 PM

I'm glad to hear it. SMG can be a wonderful thing :)

Bdave 10-24-2012 09:59 PM

If you really want a thrill, obtain the CSL M3 SMG software for your SMG brain. It is simply incredible! EAS has it for 200 dollars and for FREE from a guy in PA(Pennsylvania).
PM me if you want the link for the DIY upgrade. I dont have it handy at my finger tips But I can find it for you.

Tiago 10-25-2012 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdave (Post 14844751)
If you really want a thrill, obtain the CSL M3 SMG software for your SMG brain. It is simply incredible! EAS has it for 200 dollars and for FREE from a guy in PA(Pennsylvania).
PM me if you want the link for the DIY upgrade. I dont have it handy at my finger tips But I can find it for you.

In europe the cars already has from factory a different SMG software than US cars spec. Not to sure if what you call CSL software it isn't already the SMG software for euro cars spec.

Anyway, thanks for your input. :thumbup:

Bdave 10-25-2012 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiago (Post 14845306)
In europe the cars already has from factory a different SMG software than US cars spec. Not to sure if what you call CSL software it isn't already the SMG software for euro cars spec.

Anyway, thanks for your input. :thumbup:

You are right. Sort of. The Euro SMG is quite a bit better than the US version. You get a much better launch RPM too in the Launch Mode.

The CSL software is the last step up in software. There is nothing faster. It pretty much maxes out the SMG capabilities. It is definitely faster than what you have, however. All this was carefully explained by the gentleman who offers the CSL DIY software for no charge. Vodyk or something like that is his name. he is actually on an M5 board but offers M3 CSL software too.

If you are happy with your Euro version then stay with what you got.
I recommend staying away from any dealer updates to your SMG. They have a tendency to detune rather than enhance your SMG. At least that is the situation here in the USA. Mine was HORRIBLE by the third update. I was livid because they said they could not undo it. That is why I got the CSL software. It was like night and day. Incredible!

Enjoy my friend. Drive safely, but in the FAST lane!

Tiago 10-25-2012 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdave (Post 14845437)
The CSL software is the last step up in software. There is nothing faster. It pretty much maxes out the SMG capabilities. It is definitely faster than what you have, however.

Thanks for the tip, but i remeber once to ask ESS about it and they said that they need the car to do it. Their facilities is 2000 miles away so it is hard to justify the trip. :bawling:

Bdave 10-27-2012 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiago (Post 14846572)
Thanks for the tip, but i remeber once to ask ESS about it and they said that they need the car to do it. Their facilities is 2000 miles away so it is hard to justify the trip. :bawling:

Well, it sounds like you ARE interested at least so I will go to the trouble of looking up the information of this guy in PA. He offers a DIY upgrade to CSL. You can read the thread and the pros and cons of the deal and personal accounts of people who have actually DONE this task (i am pretty certain).

So you can jusdge for yourself. If nothing else, it is a great education on the SMG transmission. I should go back and re read it anyway. It is brimming with incredible information...accurate information about the differnces and capapbilites of the SMG.

Right now mine is about maxed out. My launch is set at 3500 rpm. I forget what the milisecond duration of my shift time is but it is many times faster than stock. I dont NEED it any faster. Its that good.

The guy from Top Gear in England HATES 'Flappy Paddles" as he put it. But LOVES the CSL SMG. I have seen him rave about it on the race course they use to test cars. He has experienced the normal Euro SMG too. The CSL is noticeably better.

I am pretty sure there is no need to drive your car anywhere for the free offer from Voydk. let me find the info. Stand by.


Try this. There is a LINK in my post in this thread which you should read. One guy claims(i think he is correct) that the ONLY difference in Euro SMG is the higher launch RPM. The shift times are the same as USA SMG. The other threads by Vodyk clear up ALL an ANY myths or misconceptions about the SMG tranny in all parts of the world! The LAST link I give you way at the bottom is the BIG 83 page thread. That is the bible on the SMG as far as I know. Take a look at ALL the links i give, however.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=934786


http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...ted-vodyk.html

Uh oh! looks like he DIED in a motorcycle crash recently. IDK if anyone is taking his place. I Am CERTAIN you can find someone to give you either the software to DIY with a special cable you need to aquire or send in some poetion of your SMG brain.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...rip-vodyk.html

I THINK you can separate the brain from the car. I had a guy from overseas actually hook up his laptop to my car when he did my SMG here in the USA. Then he fine tuned it WHILE we were ON THE ROAD. I am telling you...it was sooo cool.
You dont HAVE to get a custom job. Just the basic CSL software. I just got lucky and found a guy to tweak my SMG out to the max.

Then we fooled around with launch RPM until we got it where it worked the best. WE compensated by guessing for the drag strip and ended up getting it just right.

You can usually ASK for a specific RPM when you get the job done. SO have an idea what you might want for a launch RPM.
Figure out if its a launch you want for the street or for the strip. Having hot grippy tires and a rubber laden drag strip will make a big differencezsw .
Your car may nose over if the launch is set too low or spin too mch if it is set too high,

Somewhere 3200 to 4000 rpm is a good starting point. Good luck.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...-smg-tune.html


Ah!! Here is the 83 freaking page thread on Vodyk and his famous SMG DIY upgrades. Happy reading. I need to read ALL of it. It may take a week. But i love learning about the SMG. There is SO much to it that so few people realize. I find it fascinating.
I am sure you can skim it to glean the info YOU need for your purposes.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...trol-free.html

BrianSpilner 10-27-2012 05:58 PM

Unfortunately Vodyk passed away at a very young age due to a motorcycle accident :(

His thread is very informative and I have links on there where I uploaded and shared the required software and daten files needed to do the upgrade. You can do it yourself and it is worth the upgrade. It's a night and day difference. The smoothness between shifts is amazing, not to mention how fast the shifts are when in MODE 6 of SMG. The 3,800RPM launch control is obvious.

Glad you love the upgrade. Do yo have any clunking when starting off in 1st or 2nd gear with your stage 2 HPF clutch?

Bdave 10-27-2012 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrisBoss (Post 14851680)
Unfortunately Vodyk passed away at a very young age due to a motorcycle accident :(

His thread is very informative and I have links on there where I uploaded and shared the required software and daten files needed to do the upgrade. You can do it yourself and it is worth the upgrade. It's a night and day difference. The smoothness between shifts is amazing, not to mention how fast the shifts are when in MODE 6 of SMG. The 3,800RPM launch control is obvious.

Glad you love the upgrade. Do yo have any clunking when starting off in 1st or 2nd gear with your stage 2 HPF clutch?

I am SO glad you posted! Thank you so much. Yes, I was stricken when I read about his passing. I am a rider too and it makes me consider my mortality. I had some one close to me made basicaly brain dead by a person who ran a red light WITH A HUGE TRAILER. My friend hit the trailer head on.
Off topic but I cant help but talk about it.

Your observations on the software is the same as my observations.

Funny you should ask about chatter. OK. Second gear: Never.

My first gear: Yes, but......

I broke my Stage 2 clutch in INCORRECTLY! I babied it. Not correct. You are supposed to break it in decisively...especially first gear from a complete stop.
firm decisive "launch" from a stand still every time in first gear should be as smooth and firm as traffic will allow. It is not supposed to be a racing start but definitely a little faster and firmer than you would normally. After a few days you can back off a bit.

This procedure "teaches" the clutch to engage more smoothly. I am told there will always be a bit of chatter, but not too bad IF you do the proper break in.

I have since upgraded to a stage 3 (same disc lapped on to a Stage 3 pressure plate, then swapped out for one of the NEW discs with the riveted center splines. I dont know if South bend pre lapped it to the pressure plate or not. A brand new flywheel was decided to be fitted at the same time (Must be OEM with the SMG and feramic).

So, I will give a FULL report on how a STAGE THREE clutch with the CSL (still intact) software will handle first gear engagements after a PROPER break in period. I was under the impression that the stage 2 chatter would subside considerably had I cleared the adaptations (which I did) and then re taught the clutch in a fresh break in period (did not get the opportunity). The first gear chatter for the Stage 3 is unknown at this time.

Even though I broke it(my Stage 2 Feramic)in all wrong the first time, I could have lived with the existing chatter. It was not horrible. Less would always be better.

A very few virtually eliminate ALL the chatter.
I think it has a LOT to do with break in...just like you bed brake pads on to a new or existing disc. You need to transfer pad (or disc material in the case of a clutch) material on to the rotor(pressure plate in the case of the clutch).

How the disc conforms plays a big part in chatter too. I think South Bend will pre LAP your disc for a nominal charge (or NO charge) if asked. Inquire about this.
It can only HELP. It is a fantastic company that goes out of their way to help.

Can you provide more precise links for DIY software and INSTRUCTIONS for CSL software for the OP who is in Europe?

Can you share your personal experience executing the job? ALL of us would be most grateful and fascinated.

This job used to cost 599 usd via ESS Tuning. Figure in costs for FEDEX too!..well over 600usd!! WOW! That is way too much!

I like Vodyk's FREE sharing idea MUCH better. God Bless his SOUL!

Dreikraft 10-27-2012 08:15 PM

i dunno what you guys are talking about. i guess since i never updated my smg software maybe it wasnt as dumbed down like other cars who had updates more frequently so the difference was not as dramatic but i recently flashed the csl software this week. its noticeable but not night and day and starting in auto mode is kinda annoying. oh well

BrianSpilner 10-28-2012 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdave (Post 14851788)
I am SO glad you posted! Thank you so much. Yes, I was stricken when I read about his passing. I am a rider too and it makes me consider my mortality. I had some one close to me made basicaly brain dead by a person who ran a red light WITH A HUGE TRAILER. My friend hit the trailer head on.
Off topic but I cant help but talk about it.

Your observations on the software is the same as my observations.

Funny you should ask about chatter. OK. Second gear: Never.

My first gear: Yes, but......

I broke my Stage 2 clutch in INCORRECTLY! I babied it. Not correct. You are supposed to break it in decisively...especially first gear from a complete stop.
firm decisive "launch" from a stand still every time in first gear should be as smooth and firm as traffic will allow. It is not supposed to be a racing start but definitely a little faster and firmer than you would normally. After a few days you can back off a bit.

This procedure "teaches" the clutch to engage more smoothly. I am told there will always be a bit of chatter, but not too bad IF you do the proper break in.

I have since upgraded to a stage 3 (same disc lapped on to a Stage 3 pressure plate, then swapped out for one of the NEW discs with the riveted center splines. I dont know if South bend pre lapped it to the pressure plate or not. A brand new flywheel was decided to be fitted at the same time (Must be OEM with the SMG and feramic).

So, I will give a FULL report on how a STAGE THREE clutch with the CSL (still intact) software will handle first gear engagements after a PROPER break in period. I was under the impression that the stage 2 chatter would subside considerably had I cleared the adaptations (which I did) and then re taught the clutch in a fresh break in period (did not get the opportunity). The first gear chatter for the Stage 3 is unknown at this time.

Even though I broke it(my Stage 2 Feramic)in all wrong the first time, I could have lived with the existing chatter. It was not horrible. Less would always be better.

A very few virtually eliminate ALL the chatter.
I think it has a LOT to do with break in...just like you bed brake pads on to a new or existing disc. You need to transfer pad (or disc material in the case of a clutch) material on to the rotor(pressure plate in the case of the clutch).

How the disc conforms plays a big part in chatter too. I think South Bend will pre LAP your disc for a nominal charge (or NO charge) if asked. Inquire about this.
It can only HELP. It is a fantastic company that goes out of their way to help.

Can you provide more precise links for DIY software and INSTRUCTIONS for CSL software for the OP who is in Europe?

Can you share your personal experience executing the job? ALL of us would be most grateful and fascinated.

This job used to cost 599 usd via ESS Tuning. Figure in costs for FEDEX too!..well over 600usd!! WOW! That is way too much!

I like Vodyk's FREE sharing idea MUCH better. God Bless his SOUL!

Go to the original M5board thread and go to Page #38 and look at post #372; That is where all my Rapidshare links are located. If you do not have a Rapidshare account and would like temporary access to mine, just PM me and I will provide you with a password to use.

The EXACT directions can be found here: https://rapidshare.com/files/2903753419/winkfp.pdf

The directions are really fool-proof and they provide the codes you need to enter for the regular Euro software or the CSL software; whichever you choose.

-When installing the WINKFP software, make sure you are running WINDOWS XP, I think some said they got away with Windows 7, but stick with Windows XP to avoid any errors.

-Connect your car to a battery tender; this is to trick your computer into thinking that the car is on and running. Set the volt to 13.8-14.4v to achieve this goal. You can connect the power cable to the power bolt under the hood and the ground cable on the alternator. You DO NOT need to connect to the battery in the trunk.

-Make sure you laptop or computer is set to NOT hibernate, NOT sleep, NOT shutoff hard drives, or TIMEOUT USB data transfer speeds when idle. This will ensure a quick and error-free install.

Besides those above tips mentioned, the directions will explain everything else in detail. The above points are key elements I think it is missing and a few problems I encountered when flashing.

Enjoy :clap:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreikraft (Post 14851894)
i dunno what you guys are talking about. i guess since i never updated my smg software maybe it wasnt as dumbed down like other cars who had updates more frequently so the difference was not as dramatic but i recently flashed the csl software this week. its noticeable but not night and day and starting in auto mode is kinda annoying. oh well

I felt a night and day difference, not to mention mostly everyone else that has done this upgrade. I do not know why you didn't. :hmm:

Bdave 10-29-2012 06:12 AM

Wow, KrisBoss, thank you SO much for filling in the gaps with your excellent links and first hand knowledge. Well done, sir!

It is so unusual to have so many people not believe, realize or understand just how impressive this upgrade really is.
It seems that so many people think it is all a big exaggeration..LOL.

It's their loss. We are not SELLING anything. It is not like we get some monetary reward for spreading the word.

I think a few people that read this thread MIGHT be mildly interested.

Very sound, safe PC advice too, K. B.!
BTW, do you use the device that one of your Countrymen developed?...the Sprint Booster? (sorry to assume things. ARE you a Greek National?) That thing is awesome. Expensive. That is why so few guys have one. I have had a S. Booster for quite a while and just love it to death.
It adds so much to the car on the track its not even fair I think... sometimes.
:) :evil:

I use it on the street too. It takes a little getting used to. You cant lift and then get BACK into the throttle in first gear or the car will buck uncontrollably. Just up shift to second. Simple. That is when the S. booster is activated AND the SPORT button is pushed as well! The result is some seriously fast throttle response time!

Combine that with the CSL SMG software and you have a potent, winning combination.

Rockyminator 10-29-2012 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdave (Post 14854794)
Wow, KrisBoss, thank you SO much for filling in the gaps with your excellent links and first hand knowledge. Well done, sir!

It is so unusual to have so many people not believe, realize or understand just how impressive this upgrade really is.
It seems that so many people think it is all a big exaggeration..LOL.

It's their loss. We are not SELLING anything. It is not like we get some monetary reward for spreading the word.

I think a few people that read this thread MIGHT be mildly interested.

Very sound, safe PC advice too, K. B.!
BTW, do you use the device that one of your Countrymen developed?...the Sprint Booster? (sorry to assume things. ARE you a Greek National?) That thing is awesome. Expensive. That is why so few guys have one. I have had a S. Booster for quite a while and just love it to death.
It adds so much to the car on the track its not even fair I think... sometimes.
:) :evil:

I use it on the street too. It takes a little getting used to. You cant lift and then get BACK into the throttle in first gear or the car will buck uncontrollably. Just up shift to second. Simple. That is when the S. booster is activated AND the SPORT button is pushed as well! The result is some seriously fast throttle response time!

Combine that with the CSL SMG software and you have a potent, winning combination.

I've actually been thinking about purchasing the sprint booster because the throttle response on my HPF M3 isn't as responsive as a stock M3. Is it easy to install? Can it be switched completely off?

Bdave 10-29-2012 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockyminator (Post 14855177)
I've actually been thinking about purchasing the sprint booster because the throttle response on my HPF M3 isn't as responsive as a stock M3. Is it easy to install? Can it be switched completely off?

I didnt need tools as I recall. It snaps in underneath the accelerator. It took me a few minutes to figure out how to remove the pedal. it is easier than it looks like at first.

I cant disable mine but i think the newer ones come with that feature. I would NEVER WANT to disable mine. Check the features.

You can vary the intensity by turning the SPORT button on or off. That still works and just adds to the effects of the Sprint Booster.

I leave the SBooster on and the Sport button ON ALL the time except when I have a friend drive the car. In case you missed my saying this: First gear is tricky with the Sport Button AND the Booster on for a brand new driver. its NO problem for me after about 10 minutes the first time i left it on. Just dont "pedal" first gear.

if you need to LIFT, then up shift to second gear or the car will buck. Or...apply the throttle again VERY sloooowly when getting back into it. I just up shift...much easier.

Don't mistake LAG for lack of throttle response due to opening of the plate in the throttle body. That is ALL the S Booster does..is amp up the signal to the drive by wire system of opening the throttle plate. That is does very well. Only a QSV or a high compression build or a smaller turbo will help lag.
If SOME of your lag is caused by slow throttle plate opening, the SBooster will help. I know the plate even on a NA motor does not open all that fast.
The SBooster should help BOTH NA and FI motors.

Rockyminator 10-29-2012 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdave (Post 14855218)
I didnt need tools as I recall. It snaps in underneth the accelerator. It took me a few minutes to figure out how to remove the pedal. it is easier than it looks like at first.

I cant disable mine but i think the newer ones come with that feature. I would NEVER WANT to disable mine. Check the features.

You can vary the intensity by turning the SPORT button on or off. That still works and just adds to the effects of the Sprint Booster.

I leave the SBooster on and the Sport button ON ALL the time except when I have a friend drive the car. First gear is tricky with the Sport Button AND the Booster on for a brand new driver. its NO problem for me after about 10 minutes the first time i left it on. Just dont "pedal" first gear.

if you need to LIFT, then up shift to second gear or the car will buck. Or...apply the throttle again VERY sloooowly when getting back into it. I just up shift...much easier.

Cool thanks. Does the pedal have a hex screw or is it a white tab that when pushed should allow the pedal to side off?

Dreikraft 10-29-2012 11:36 AM

also, try and stick with laptops that came with XP natively (i.e. comps from that era).

BrianSpilner 10-29-2012 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockyminator (Post 14855234)
Cool thanks. Does the pedal have a hex screw or is it a white tab that when pushed should allow the pedal to side off?

Here are pictures with directions on how to remove the pedal:
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/imag...46_install.jpg

I am going to order a Sprint Booster and see how I like it!

Rockyminator 10-29-2012 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrisBoss (Post 14855800)
Here are pictures with directions on how to remove the pedal:
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/imag...46_install.jpg

I am going to order a Sprint Booster and see how I like it!

Thanks. I'm also going to give it a shot, there's a 30 day money back guarantee so it wouldn't hurt. Rev matching in my M3 is not very great when compared to other sport cars I've driven.

BrianSpilner 10-29-2012 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockyminator (Post 14856540)
Thanks. I'm also going to give it a shot, there's a 30 day money back guarantee so it wouldn't hurt. Rev matching in my M3 is not very great when compared to other sport cars I've driven.

I'm going to order it too. I honestly never heard about it. I think that's because most people mistake it for an ECU tune.


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