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-   -   using Headlight with broken tab is illegal? *insurance* (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=955815)

youngs 11-13-2012 03:51 PM

using Headlight with broken tab is illegal? *insurance*
 
I had some issue with insurance company before.

related link
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...583&highlight=

to make a long story short ,

somebody was backing up ,and bumped to my passenger side front end.
my car was parked ,and I was watching from outside.

bumper , hood , and headlight got damage.

bumper and hood is fixed but headlight still has scratches.

They tried to buff it out , but it didn't work. Insurance company is saying it had one broken tab inside before the accident they will not pay for new one. Yes there was broken tab , and I admit that.

They are saying the headlight with broken tab is considered as JUNK and I cannot pass the inspection. so they will not pay for replacement. so I asked to get a used parts at least , but denied.

any suggestion or advice? I am dealing with the hardest insurance company evern seen , since I am not their customer(the other driver is the insurance holder) I have not too many option to deal with them. please give me some advice or opinion. Thank you in advance.

Zell 11-13-2012 04:13 PM

Where is the tab broken? Did it have anything to do with the headlight aim or overall stability of the light as you drove? If not, then insurance is just looking for an out to not pay for it.

If you can make an argument that the broken tab does not violate any structural integrity of the headlight, then there's no reason why they shouldn't replace it. Plus, go ask a shop if that would cause you to fail inspection.

Most insurance adjusters are ****ing stupid when it comes to cars. Don't get me started on one my friend was telling me about that had no clue what a "decal" was, and kept saying it was "necessary to replace for the car to be in running condition."

youngs 11-13-2012 04:17 PM

Thank Zell. the problem is I had it fixed with glue before ,and it was totally working condition without any problem. there are 2 tabs at the top ,and the outer one was broken ,but glued. and these 04+ coupe cannot replace the lense only.

Zell 11-13-2012 04:21 PM

Are you talking about the rubber rain channel/gasket above the headlight? Mine has broken tabs on the right side, too haha.

Or, is it on the lens itself somewhere? If it's that, then a tab being broken causes no problems with the headlight. Explain to them that the headlight lens is glued, and requires temperatures up to 350 degrees to soften the glue and separate. It is water-tight and the tab has very little contribution, if at all, to the integrity of the lens. Shoot, even spray a hose on the headlight and show them it's water-tight, therefore a broken tab doesn't mater.

youngs 11-13-2012 04:27 PM

Thank you again Zell. They don't really care it really matters. Just the headlight with glued tab isn't profer repair. If I have broken tab on the headlight they consider it as a broken part. so basically what they are saying is the accident made slight difference on the broken headlight. they don't need to pay for the new one. so I asked to make it as the same condition as before ,and they said it is better condition than before because they wet-sanded the headlight. Even though they couldn't remove the scratches they consider that headlight is better than I got the scratch which is nonsense.

Zell 11-13-2012 04:30 PM

Ugh. That's ridiculous.

peytonracer4 11-13-2012 04:32 PM

Have your insurance company fight theirs. That's how it works. That's what you pay for
And you should NEVER admit anything unless its blatantly your fault.
Broken tab? Could've happened in the accident. They can't say for sure.

youngs 11-13-2012 04:39 PM

Thank you Sir. I've tried with my insurance company but they cannot do anything at this moement since it has been repaired already. and they found the tab was glued so there was no way I can say it is damaged because of this accident. also I thought just telling the truth will not cause any problem.

Stinger9 11-13-2012 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngs (Post 14896961)
also I thought just telling the truth will not cause any problem.

I learned at 17 yo that just telling the truth will frequently cause problems. Boy Scouts don't always get the girl.
Learn the lesson.

youngs 11-13-2012 05:10 PM

Thank you Stinger9 . obiously I've got a lesson at least from this happening.

NE1L 11-13-2012 05:12 PM

Perhaps you can tell this other blokes insurance company that the damage caused by their clients driving as compromised the optical performance of the headlight. As such their repair of buffing down the lens with the scratch still visible has not restored the headlight to its pre-accident condition & thus optical performance. A cracked tab, that has been glued back together is still a tab securing in place what it is supposed to, causing no negative effect on optical performance or vehicle legality, but their poor repair of the headlight may cause the car to fail an inspection. No insurance company can be allowed to hand back a repaired damaged vehicle in a non-road legal condition. The sole purpose of a headlight is for just that purpose, projecting light onto the road surface. If they come back with, the glued tab is not how it left the factory, well neither is a headlight with a single stone chip technically or a peeling decal. Where do they draw the line on what is factory specification / condition? If they say, well stone chips are fair ware and tare, then the tab crack was due to UV degradation of the plastic causing it to be come brittle (ware and tare). As an alternative, if your insurance policy has legal aid cover, you should inquire about using that cover to claim back un-insured losses from his insurance company that would cover the cost of you purchasing a new headlight. That way your insurance company is not getting into a battle about what should be replaced on the car as you have previously stated that they do not want to know.

Best of luck.

TerraPhantm 11-13-2012 05:24 PM

Well here's what the law is in MA

Quote:

d) Lighting Devices and Reflectors. All lighting devices and reflectors required by applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards or part 393. of Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations for all commercial motor vehicles when the particular vehicle was originally manufactured and such devices required by Massachusetts General Law or Rules and Regulations applicable to the particular vehicle inspected shall be securely attached to the vehicle and capable of performing their design functions. Lenses must be intact, clean, unobstructed, and free from cracks.
I would argue that a headlight with a repaired tab is still securely attached to the vehicle and capable of performing its designed functions. Due to the accident, it is no longer capable of performing its functions, so you should be entitled to a replacement headlight.

Was your car ever inspected with the broken tab? Did it pass? If so (and you have any way of proving that), I would use that to argue your position as well.

youngs 11-13-2012 05:39 PM

Thank you NE1L , and TerraPhantm. Now I've got something to tell them.
I love fanatics forum!!

sunsetcoast 11-14-2012 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngs (Post 14896915)
If I have broken tab on the headlight they consider it as a broken part. so basically what they are saying is the accident made slight difference on the broken headlight. they don't need to pay for the new one. so I asked to make it as the same condition as before ,and they said it is better condition than before because they wet-sanded the headlight. Even though they couldn't remove the scratches they consider that headlight is better than I got the scratch which is nonsense.

A good place to start is a post in the "Ask an insurance adjuster anything" thread to get suggestions on how to proceed.

Two situations here. First, insurance is supposed to keep you whole. That is, essentially, return to pre-loss condition. Essentially, this means that they do not repair existing damage. If the tab was broken prior to the accident, then fixing the tab isn't covered. Same thing with a worn out (<2/32") tire. If it is destroyed in an accident, you don't get a new tire: that one was already at the end of its useful life. A fender that had been keyed prior to being dented in an accident still gets fixed. And at full cost because the prior damage doesn't affect the cost of the repair.

Many of us have assemblies with broken tabs. They light up the night. They aim just fine. They don't move around. Not "junk".

While a non-functioning bulb, gross misalignment, or inability to align might mean a failed a safety inspection, it is extremely unlikely that a broken mounting tab would. Just check the regs on your state's DoT site. If, as TerraPhantm, suggests, you have evidence of its having passed inspection previously, you have an even stronger case that it isn't "junk".

The damage that needs to be repaired is the deeply scratched lens. Although a cracked lens might fail an inspection, a scratched lens is not likely to do so. But that isn't the point. The pre-loss condition on the lens did not have scratches. If they are deep enough that they don't buff out, they are deep enough to negatively affect the performance and longevity of the unit.

The fact that they tried to fix the headlamp is a de facto admission that they are responsible for fixing that damage. If it were truly "junk" they would not have expended anything at all to try to fix it.

Talk with your insurance agent (or adjuster) to get advice. You need to escalate. It is best to do this properly, using language that they understand.

youngs 11-14-2012 09:27 AM

Thank you sunsetcoast. I am going to use all these words for next call. I will keep you guys updated!!

avincent52 11-14-2012 09:38 AM

Seven more words for you: Please Let Me Speak To Your Supervisor

Your tone is important. Don't get angry or frustrated. Stay professional, and be *nice* to the adjuster.
He or she is just doing a job, so by being polite you can get them on your side.
(I say this having won a $5000 battle with my insurance company by being polite, and lost a $50 one by getting frustrated and annoyed.)

If that doesn't work (and so far it hasn't) politely ask to speak to their supervisor and be nice to the supervisor, while making a clear argument.
The headlight was fully functioning before the accident, despite the repair. But isn't fully functional now and it should be replaced.

Schlag96 11-14-2012 11:17 AM

Here's another piece of advice - go to a garage sale and buy a couple of $5 used car seats and drive around with them in the back seat. Buy the highest end ones you can find for the lowest price.

Most states have laws that require the insurance company to purchase new car seats if yours have been in an accident.

Last time a girl hit me, I had three car seats and got like $600 added to the check for them.

;)

sunsetcoast 11-14-2012 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngs (Post 14898824)
Thank you sunsetcoast.

:thumbup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by avincent52 (Post 14898840)
Seven more words for you: Please Let Me Speak To Your Supervisor

Your tone is important. Don't get angry or frustrated. Stay professional, and be *nice* to the adjuster.

x100
I had a relative who used to say, "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". I never understood why someone would want to catch flies... :hmm:

Be pleasant and professional. Professional means having your ducks in a row, staying calm, and using the specific relevant terms of their business. (If you don't post in the "ask an adjuster" thread, talk with your agent to make sure you clearly understand the situation from the business angle and get suggestions about how to proceed. The agent may even know how the other company operates and provide valuable insight. Be solid on this before talking with the other company's adjuster again.) Unless you are dealing with dirt-bags (while possible, most people are not), it can go a long way.

One approach is asking the supervisor for help in this matter because you've been unable to get the adjuster to understand your concerns. This way, you don't put the adjuster in a bad light and you've stroked the supervisor before stating your case. If there is a bit of resistance, you might even be able to help the supervisor understand that this should be an easy fix. Just note that you aren't asking for a new unit: you have already agreed to a used part. The labor is minimal. And know your bottom line. You might even be happy, for example, to split the difference: they buy the headlight and you'll install.

Don't get caught up in what seems fair to you. Their only obligation is what they are legally required to do...and they have a fiduciary responsibility to the company.

Stinger9 11-14-2012 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunsetcoast (Post 14899508)
I had a relative who used to say, "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". I never understood why someone would want to catch flies... :hmm:

People put out fly paper to catch flies, so there must be a good reason that some want to do it.
Could be you want to eliminate them from landing on your food, or flying around your face. And in some places in the country there are black flies that have painful bites. I've worn mosquito net hats just to keep them away when hiking on the trail. The fles were very aggressive.

youngs 11-15-2012 02:58 PM

Thank you all. I've got a check from the insurance company. they finally gave me a 85% of the new headlight and labor.
I talked to the supervisor's supervisor. and he came to see my car once ,and made the decision. when I was talking to the 2nd teer supervisor I had to explain manythings above , but the 3rd one was straight.
Thank you again guys!!!


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