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-   -   insane military perk spending (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=960445)

bagher 12-12-2012 09:27 AM

insane military perk spending
 
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/12/7_ab...payer_dollars/

NOVAbimmer 12-12-2012 09:32 AM

can I get another pop-up ad off that site?

bagher 12-12-2012 09:32 AM

I had zero. Learn to adblock.

NOVAbimmer 12-12-2012 09:37 AM

two got past my adblock. My jimmies are rustled.

bagher 12-12-2012 09:38 AM

shed no tears

bimmerfan08 12-12-2012 09:49 AM

Glad my tax dollars are making some people happy.

330iPilot 12-12-2012 09:50 AM

If it is happening at this alarming rate it needs to be stopped. But I saw absolutely zero evidence to back up the author's claims. I have no dout that there is some abuse. But is it as rampant as the author suggests?

Rhumb 12-12-2012 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 330iPilot (Post 14972843)
If it is happening at this alarming rate it needs to be stopped. But I saw absolutely zero evidence to back up the author's claims. I have no dout that there is some abuse. But is it as rampant as the author suggests?

Or any less rampant than Repubs/conservatives assert to be the case with social and other non-military government programs (many of which operate at far lower operational overhead margins than private sector equivalents)?

I think these assertions/aspersions are way too often thrown out there as fact when in fact, the facts aren't there to necessarily support them.

bimmerfan08 12-12-2012 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhumb (Post 14973005)
Or any less rampant than Repubs/conservatives assert to be the case with social and other non-military government programs (many of which operate at far lower operational overhead margins than private sector equivalents)?

I think these assertions/aspersions are way too often thrown out there as fact when in fact, the facts aren't there to necessarily support them.

I'll look around for supporting facts later. Curious myself. But look at government districts and groups having their so called meetings in lavish and expensive locations. This type of conduct and leisure should not be allowed for government employees especially when it's frowned upon for corporations in the free enterprise.

An example is the 9th circuit court of appeals from CA holding it's "conference" in Hawaii. The bill was supposedly around $1 million for the trip. Most corporations don't even have that amount of freed up money to spend.

Raymond42262 12-12-2012 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 (Post 14973126)

An example is the 9th circuit court of appeals from CA holding it's "conference" in Hawaii. The bill was supposedly around $1 million for the trip. Most corporations don't even have that amount of freed up money to spend.

I heard about that, but I am not going to research it.

However, it does not sound unreasonable to me.

When you deal with govt agencies, you have districts, much like the 9th district court of appeals.


I am assuming Hawaii is in the district. It is not unusual or uncommon to have quarterly or annual meetings to update members on new trends, regulations etc....and have an opportunity to meet everyone you have been messaging and emailing for the last year.


Whenever you have the meetings, it requires a lot of planning and coordination which is done in addition to your regular work responsibilities. You often take turns scheduling events. So if the 9th district of appeals covers Los Angeles, then it is held in LA one year. San Diego next year... Las Vegas...and eventually Hawaii.

See ?

It is not as bad as it seems. If that is the case, it's not a big deal to me.

bimmerfan08 12-12-2012 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond42262 (Post 14973206)
I heard about that, but I am not going to research it.

However, it does not sound unreasonable to me.

When you deal with govt agencies, you have districts, much like the 9th district court of appeals.


I am assuming Hawaii is in the district. It is not unusual or uncommon to have quarterly or annual meetings to update members on new trends, regulations etc....and have an opportunity to meet everyone you have been messaging and emailing for the last year.


Whenever you have the meetings, it requires a lot of planning and coordination which is done in addition to your regular work responsibilities. You often take turns scheduling events. So if the 9th district of appeals covers Los Angeles, then it is held in LA one year. San Diego next year... Las Vegas...and eventually Hawaii.

See ?

It is not as bad as it seems. If that is the case, it's not a big deal to me.

That's not so bad, it was the projected and perhaps at this point factual cost.

Rhumb 12-12-2012 12:01 PM

Yeah, not saying that some degree of waste, fraud and abuse doesn't occur, it most certainly does as you quite well point out. It's the overall functioning though that I think becomes most relevant rather than individual tales of woe. Is, say, Medicare more or less efficient than private insurance companies in providing end services to patients? Some studies (and I'll admit to not having sources readily available) have found Medicare overhead rates to be far less than private insurers, something to the tune of 5% vs 20% or something of similar scale.

Trouble with this type of analysis is that it is often an apples and oranges type thing as most private companies can be measured in terms of profits earned vs. resources put in. Many or most government agencies and activities by their very nature are not profit-earning enterprises and, indeed, are often fill roles in society that are inherently unprofitable, at least in direct and immediate terms. Were you to rate the Air Force in those terms, profitability? It would be considered an abject failure and immense waste of money. Of course, though, its benefits to our society are there, if far less direct and concretely and amenable to measurement (how do you measure "security"?), and I am glad we have a good Air Force.

Likewise, I think many other government programs are taken very much for granted and would only be fully appreciated in their absence. It is difficult to measure or appreciate what doesn't happen, which is often the role of government agencies, to make sure bad things don't occur. Yes, the rules and standards of the EPA do represent a burden upon many private enterprise's energies, resources and yes, profits. However, would you prefer, rather, that the air quality of our cities resemble that of Beijing with its surrounding industries unfettered by bothersome emissions standards? Or of many of our own large cities 40+ years ago?

This is not to say I'm defending each and every agencies, law or regulation, hardly, but conversely, I think too many government entities and activities are dismissed to readily out of hand rather than looking at them with a higher and more discerning degree of scrutiny. Any human activity can be improved, including both those in the private and public sectors, but that improvement needs to be done constructively, towards a better overall end rather than destructively, to simply tear down what one might not like ideologically.

I think both our major political parties have been to ideological in this regard - Republicans reflexively dismissing any and all (non-military) government endeavors while Democrats reflexively defend such endeavors with neither party giving them the proper scrutiny.

casino is no lie 12-12-2012 12:05 PM

I don't care for Salon. They were practically sucking Obama's nuts during the election. I found it to be obnoxious.

Rhumb 12-12-2012 12:24 PM

PS I live near the Pentagon, with its almost continuous helicopter traffic. I often joke tongue-in-check when one goes by that "There's another general coming back from a golf outing." Little did I realize how close to the truth my little quip might actually be.

I think that, as the article alludes to, that the broader issue is less the military per se but rather, an entitled, coddled and insular "1%" in our society that is creating real problems for our society in general, whether in the private, public or military realms.

Republican's in the past election often castigated Dems for raising class warfare when in fact, the Dems may simply have only had the temerity to have been calling out a class warfare that does, and has, existed for some time and one the 1% have been winning splendidly, often at great cost to the rest of our society.

Perhaps the elite at all quarters of our society should not be so coddled, deferred to or protected but rather, held to the same standards - no better, no worse -- as the least of us.

Raymond42262 12-12-2012 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 (Post 14973244)
That's not so bad, it was the projected and perhaps at this point factual cost.

True. It sounds unreasonable.

But.....1m is not so much if you have 200, 300 attendees and you have to pay for their plane fare and hotel rooms for a week.

The argument can be made to send the HawaII people to the states, but that would be unfair to them to do that every year, especially if they have to plan it.

I am sure the costs are much cheaper elsewhere so the cost per event over 3,4 years might average out to a more reasonable 500k, 600k or 700k.

Hey............1M does not go as far as it used too.

It looks like a lot on paper, but that is the cost of doing business.

MDydinanM 12-12-2012 01:29 PM

Patraeus had his staff prepare freshly sliced pineapples before bed time and give him water at precise intervals when he was out running.

So the news reports.

Quote:

Petraeus' no-nonsense military style and some idiosyncrasies rubbed some CIA managers the wrong way. In May, a leaked CIA cable disclosed that when Petraeus traveled overseas, he wanted fresh pineapple every night before bed, sliced bananas atop his cereal in the morning and predesigned morning runs that avoided intersections.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov...ign-20121110/2

vilseck21 12-31-2012 10:24 PM

What the article does not say about the MWR Golf courses, is that the courses are funded 100% by the military through BX/PX, AAFES, NEX and Commisary profits. Not one cent of NAF funds comes form outside sources. All MWR is funded excluslevely by the members of the US Militray, to inclde running of the Commisaries and the BX/PXs. NAF funds get pooled into a general account and divied out every fiscal year. They DO NOT come form tax payers.

We pay for that ****, you dont

bimmerfan08 01-01-2013 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vilseck21 (Post 15021701)
What the article does not say about the MWR Golf courses, is that the courses are funded 100% by the military through BX/PX, AAFES, NEX and Commisary profits. Not one cent of NAF funds comes form outside sources. All MWR is funded excluslevely by the members of the US Militray, to inclde running of the Commisaries and the BX/PXs. NAF funds get pooled into a general account and divied out every fiscal year. They DO NOT come form tax payers.

We pay for that ****, you dont

Calm down. Can I get a source?

flashmeow 01-01-2013 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vilseck21 (Post 15021701)
What the article does not say about the MWR Golf courses, is that the courses are funded 100% by the military through BX/PX, AAFES, NEX and Commisary profits. Not one cent of NAF funds comes form outside sources. All MWR is funded excluslevely by the members of the US Militray, to inclde running of the Commisaries and the BX/PXs. NAF funds get pooled into a general account and divied out every fiscal year. They DO NOT come form tax payers.

We pay for that ****, you dont

True but i think the the grocery store does get some federal suplements to help off set the "at cost" practice.

Hey vilseck....r u back from the Stan yet? If not, stay safe and have a happy new year. U r my hero. Some people spend 3-6 months and some not even in theater and complain about their difficult "deployment." U in thr other hand spends 12 months and get pounded with idf on a daily basis so my hats off to u.

Stay safe and come home.


sent from Samsung Galaxy Tablet

MDydinanM 01-01-2013 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashtwosix (Post 15022125)
Some people spend 3-6 months and some not even in theater and complain about their difficult "deployment." U in thr other hand spends 12 months and get pounded with idf on a daily basis so my hats off to u.

You making a reference to anyone in particular?


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