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-   -   Way forward on "fiscal cliff" uncertain after Republican plan fails (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=961898)

joeski3d 12-21-2012 08:40 AM

Way forward on "fiscal cliff" uncertain after Republican plan fails



The task of picking up the pieces of the "fiscal cliff" talks - and reassuring global markets that were shaky early Friday - is likely to fall largely to President Barack Obama after the rebuke Thursday to his chief Republican negotiating partner, House Speaker John Boehner.

Boehner could not muster enough support from his fellow Republicans, a majority in the U.S. House of Representatives, to pass his bill called "Plan B" that he had hoped to use to pressure Obama in talks to avert the steep tax hikes and spending cuts slated to start taking effect in just eleven days.

Boehner abruptly pulled the measure that would have raised taxes only on those earning $1 million or more. House members, heading to their districts for the holidays, were instructed to be available on 48 hours notice if necessary.

With his power apparently weakened, Boehner scheduled a news conference for 10 a.m. Friday.

"They went from Plan B to plan see-you-later," Obama adviser David Axelrod said on MSNBC Friday morning.

Global stock markets weakened on Friday and both the euro and gold slipped as the new setback rattled investors' nerves. Most major stock markets saw widespread selling as investors moved to traditional safe-haven assets.

Democrats, the minority in the House, are now stepping up efforts to gather some Republican votes for a Democratic bill passed by the Senate months ago which would extend the expiring tax cuts to all but the wealthy.

"What we'll have to do is figure out where that line is that gives us those 218 votes" needed to garner a majority of the House behind legislation, Democratic Representative Michael Burgess said on CNBC on Friday.

"I believe we can and must take action before the end of the year to prevent the fiscal cliff," Steny Hoyer, the second ranking Democrat in the House, said in an MSNBC interview. "Democrats are ready to work with Republicans to do so."

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who has experience helping to forge deals when House Republicans are in disarray, is likely to play a larger role now in attempting to rescue the situation along with other Senate Republicans, who have been more receptive to compromising.

Sean West, a Eurasia Group analyst, said, "Boehner didn't have a ton of good moves, and has even fewer now." He said he thought Boehner was "either headed back to the White House for a big deal or he's accepting whatever bipartisan fallback is crafted by Senate leaders. Hard to see him coming back with another partisan gambit."

'busa 12-21-2012 09:00 AM

Because he's dealing with children.

Rhumb 12-21-2012 05:27 PM

Wow! Honestly, I really believe I am seeing the slow but accelerating deterioration of the GOP as a viable governing party. It's hard to know where to start as to how this will further damage their already fractured brand. The House GOP has essentially shown itself as ungovernable and only put the Dems and Obama in an immensely stronger bargaining position. If the right wingers were gagging over Boehner's Plan B, they choke to death over anything else that will now come down the line. This is to say nothing about the higher level of disdain the general public will hold them in, as clearly indicated by every poll on the subject ("Who would be to blame for going over the cliff.) If they keep this up, their shocking (to them) losses in 2012 will be but a flesh wound compared to the flaying they should expect in 2014. Did they not absorb ANY lessons from the recent election?

Oh, and the NRA's hallucinatory presser on Sandy Hook! Utterly bizarre, even surreal and completely loosed from reality. Armed guards in every school, like what worked so well in Columbine? Perhaps kidergartner's should also be armed and given NRA sponsored markmanship lesson before their nappy times. It was only bitter icing on the cake that there was, yet, another multiple shooting during the press conference itself, including a woman fatally shot while decorating for a children's Christmas party at a tiny church hall among two others and the shooter himself being killed by troopers.

2000_328CI 12-21-2012 06:40 PM

I supported plan b

Pierce1 12-21-2012 07:34 PM

Right now I just want both sides to cut the part political crap and get something done!! If it means compromise then do it!! They're all about saving face while the country goes to sheet!! I'm more or less a GOP'er myself but if it means not getting everything the GOP wants then so be it! Get Something Done!!

joeski3d 12-21-2012 07:44 PM


Originally Posted by 2000_328CI (Post 15000116)
I supported plan b

I supported the plan that Boehner and Obama were working towards before Boehner decided to go bat-sh!t crazy and piss everyone off.

pancakes 12-21-2012 10:45 PM


Originally Posted by 2000_328CI (Post 15000116)
I supported plan b

seemed reasonable to me.

I think it's a little silly that the Republicans that voted it down are being hailed as "Reagan Heros"


Obama is just as bad.

Boehner seems to be the only person willing to budge IMO. :/

sammk 12-22-2012 09:52 AM

Another related analysis:


I think Boehner best leaves his role to someone more capable. Consensus-builder, he's not...

bimmerfan08 12-22-2012 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by sammk (Post 15001134)
Another related analysis:


I think Boehner best leaves his role to someone more capable. Consensus-builder, he's not...

Same can be said about Obama and a lot of congress :thumbup:

'busa 12-22-2012 01:03 PM


Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 (Post 15001148)
Same can be said about Obama and a lot of congress :thumbup:

Dealing with Republicans for whom Boehner isn't far enough to the right?

Stankia 12-23-2012 11:11 AM

If he'd put through a deal that involved abandoning the Tea Party and bringing in some Democrats he'd have lost the long game. As well as likely lost his position as speaker.

Right now one of the major things that gives the Republicans their power is their party unity. They are working more like a party in a Parliamentary system, voting as a bloc, etc.

One thing the Democrats have failed to understand is that the Republicans are very good at playing the long game and it's pretty much all they do. Losing a vote here and there, losing an election here and there, being blamed for failures by the President, is all stuff they'll pay as a price for pushing the long term politics of the nation more their direction. Why do you think that the Democratic party in the USA is generally to the right of the right wing parties of Europe? It's because the Republicans are very good at moving the Overton Window.

That's why they've got a whole branch of people devoted to being publicly seen as crazy who have the job of pushing really out on the fringe ideas into the mainstream. The militia leaders, backwater talk radio hosts, less respected weekly newspaper columnists, etc all take ideas that are currently so far out of the mainstream that no one who pushes them can be taken seriously, and they push them at the cost of their own credibility. Then the higher tier commentators talk about the "controversy" which moves the idea further into the mainstream. Repeat a few times and soon torture, a tax rate for the wealthy that's at a historic low, indefinite detention, public health care as Communistic evil, assassination programs targeting US citizens, endless decade long wars on three fronts, etc are positions that everyone including the Democrats take as given.

So no, Boehner will not break his party's unity to give the President a deal. In the short term it'd be a good thing for Boehner and the Republicans, Obama has indicated that he'll trade away massive cuts in Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, etc for pocket change level (and temporary) tax increases on a few millionaires. If the Republicans were playing the short game they'd take it and count it as a win.

But they aren't. If they crater the economy, or incur some short term cuts in military spending, that's not good from their POV, but in the long run maintaining their party discipline is more important.

Lair 12-23-2012 11:15 AM

Which is why more Americans are leaving them. Nobody wants to belong to a party that puts party above America.

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