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-   -   Noveske N4 Stripped Lower+Upper, Help Me Complete It! (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=961980)

Tom5933 12-21-2012 06:55 PM

Noveske N4 Stripped Lower+Upper, Help Me Complete It!
 
As the title states, I just purchased a brand new stripped Noveske N4 lower and upper. Pic is below. Now, I need help with what parts to complete the rifle. Basically to all you gun pros, how would you finish this off if it were yours? Only top quality parts, building this gun so that I can depend my life on it. Also, would it be possible to send the upper to Noveske to have them complete it and just make it like I purchased a complete upper from them? Thanks in advance guys! :thumbsup:

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/...psedcf6358.jpg

Serbonze 12-21-2012 07:19 PM

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...postcount=1796

If you buy a stripped lower you will need some parts to finish it off:
Lower Parts Kit (Daniel Defense, G&R Tactical, PSA, Colt, LMT)
Trigger Guard (if it does not come with the LPK)
Grip (if it does not come with the LPK)
Buffer Tube (mil-spec)
Buffer Spring
Buffer (there are many options; Carbine, H, H2, H3 are most popular. Go with an H to start)
Castle Nut
End Plate
Stock (mil-spec)
Punch set (Roll pin set is best, check out Brownells)
Castle Nut Wrench
Auto Punch (not necessary, a standard pointed punch will work)
Magwell Vise Block (not necessary, but makes it easier)
Masking tape
Small hammer
It's very easy to build, and shouldn't take longer than 15 minutes. Here is a link to an excellent video tutorial from Brownells.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11011/learn/


I don't suggest that you try to build your own upper at this point. It's going to be too new of a process, too many extra tools and accessories to buy, finding individual parts is a nightmare. Complete uppers are not expensive, you get a factory warranty, and you can still find them. It's far easier to buy a complete upper and have it shipped directly to your house (yes, you can do that) than build it from parts. Buy a complete upper for now, and save your Noveske upper until parts are available again.

What to look for in a complete upper:
16" chrome lined barrel
1/7 twist (although 1/8 and 1/9 are fine too)
Mid-Length gas system is best (best all around performance and recoil management) but a Carbine-Length gas system is fine too
Handguard (sometimes called a rail)
Some states will only allow a muzzle device that is pinned and welded. This is the only reason that I would purchase a 14.5" length barrel
Chambered in 5.56. You will see people throw around the term .223 and 5.56. All ARs that are chambered in 5.56 can shoot 5.56 or .223. You should not shoot 5.56 out of a chamber that is spec'd for .223.
A complete upper may or may not come with a Bolt Carrier Group (BCG) and Charging Handle.
If you need a BCG, I would stick with BCM, Colt, LMT, or Ranier Arms. They are going to be the easiest to find, and they will not fail you. You don't need any fancy chrome or nickel boron coating on it either.
You can get any charging handle, a special one is not necessary.
A "full-auto" or "M-16" Bolt Carrier is best as it has more mass. It IS NOT illegal to own. Here is a link to a letter from the ATF stating as much. http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/...6%20Letter.pdf


If you buy a complete upper, you may need some parts to finish it off:
Iron sights (also called back up sights, or BUIS).
Troy and Magpul MBUS are the two most popular.
If your upper has a fixed front sight (also known as FSB) you will only need a rear sight.
A complete upper may or may not come with a Bolt Carrier Group (BCG) and Charging Handle.
Red Dot Sights (RDS) are very popular and are great for shooting 1y-150y. You can get a 3x magnifier that sits behind it too.
The most popular quality red dot sights are Eotech (XPS2-0 or EXPS2-0) and the Aimpoint Micro (T-1 or H-1).
You can purchase a scope, but that goes into a much deeper conversation that I'm not ready to type out at this point. There is a thread in this sub-forum that discusses precision shooting, check it out.

If you are intent on building your own upper, you need the following:
Barrel
Barrel Nut
Gas Tube
Gas Block
Muzzle Device
Charging Handle
Bolt Carrier Group
Forward Assist Assembly
Dust Cover Assembly
Handguard
Upper Receiver Vise Block
Vise
Torque Wrench
Armorer's Wrench
Hammer
Punches
Front and Rear BUIS

Note that Reedo actually already answered this for you.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5933
After I get this stripped upper and lower, what internals shoulder I look to buy? I would do the research myself but I'm at work on my phone so it's a pain in the ass
Quote:

You need a lower parts kid (LPK), a bolt carrier group, charging handle, and forward assist assembly (roll pin, spring and plunger), and dust cover assembly (C-clip, pin, door and spring) if it doesn't have those.
The FA and dust cover assemblies can be bought all over, and there are kits available on BCM, Brownells and MidwayUSA, among numerous other places. The LPK is always a craps shoot on what's available. Anything from the major manufacturers like Daniel Defense, LMT, Rock River or CMT/Stag work pretty good generally. G&R Tactical has an excellent kit, but they're hard to come by. Colt kits are good, but they're twice as much as a normal LPK.

BCGs are a very important part. BCM, LMT, Daniel Defense, Noveske, Colt and Rainier Arms all make excellet BCGs. There isn't anything else out there that I would use. With a BCG, you want the "full auto" BCG, not the semi auto one. There is a difference in bolt carrier design, and the full auto model is NOT an NFA item, despite what companies like DPMS allege.

The charging handle is a preference thing based on what you want. I am a huge fan of the BCM Gunfighter Mod4 (Medium) latch. I would recommend the Gunfighter, the PRI Gasbuster or the RainierArms Raptor.

Grips are included with a LPK, but they're the standard A2 grip. If you want something different, consider looking into the BCM Gunfighter grip.
Oh. And if you live in New York, you need to make it ban compliant.
Quote:

ASSAULT WEAPONS
It shall be unlawful to possess any "assault weapon" or "large capacity ammunition feeding device." So called assault weapons lawfully possessed prior to September 14, 1994 and large capacity ammunition feeding devices
manufactured prior to such date can continue to be lawfully possessed.. "Assault weapon" is defined as:
A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
a folding or telescoping stock;
a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon;
a bayonet mount;
a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate
a flash suppressor;
a grenade launcher
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_9/404...compliant.html

Adam@Euro-Spec 12-21-2012 07:28 PM

Noveske isn't taking orders right now

Break out the wallet

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcar...cat=283&page=1

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcar...ge=&featured=Y

Good luck finding the bcg
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-B...0auto%20mp.htm

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Milsp...0extension.htm

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/H2-Ca...rbine%20h2.htm

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-G...od-1-black.htm

http://www.sprinco.com/tactical.html Blue spring

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...roduct_id=3172

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...roduct_id=2919

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...roduct_id=1363

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...roduct_id=3112


http://www.skarms.com/index.php?rout...product_id=202

http://shop.battlearmsdevelopment.com/7-BAD-CASS-SA-COMBAT-AMBI-SAFETY-SELECTOR-AR15-AR10-SEMIAUTO-BAD-CASS-SA.htm

NOVAbimmer 12-22-2012 07:11 AM

OP, if you decide you don't want to go through the hassle of finding parts and assembling it, let me know.

Tom5933 12-23-2012 05:55 PM

Thanks a lot guys for all the input. Thinking of sourcing a completed Noveske Upper but if I can't seem to find one and have to order all the parts separately, how much do you think a gun shop would charge to assemble it all together so I could avoid it? I'll be updating this thread all I decide exactly what parts will be going into this build. Thanks again guys!

Serbonze 12-23-2012 10:35 PM

I have no idea what a local shop would charge for the complete assembly. I know that Steve at ADCO does great work, and can source parts as well.

http://www.adcofirearms.com/

bigugly 12-24-2012 09:49 PM

they are big lego's. its foolish not to just put it together yourself. i can assemble a complete AR upper and lower stripped in less than 2 hours, drinking beer.

david05111 12-24-2012 09:57 PM

Yeah dude, you should put it together yourself. There are plenty of guides out there on how to do it and if you liked legos or erector sets at all, you will love building it yourself. Plus you get that extra little bit of satisfaction that YOU built it and that it works

Tom5933 12-26-2012 10:00 PM

Yea i'll definitely look into exactly what it would take to assemble it because it would be helpful to know and would feel nice to have it all completed by me.

Which part would be most important to get first depending on availability/an upcoming AR ban? The BCG? I'm going to order folding Troy BUIS for my current AR and try and order the most important/potentially hard to find part for this custom build.

david05111 12-26-2012 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5933 (Post 15009412)
Yea i'll definitely look into exactly what it would take to assemble it because it would be helpful to know and would feel nice to have it all completed by me.

Which part would be most important to get first depending on availability/an upcoming AR ban? The BCG? I'm going to order folding Troy BUIS for my current AR and try and order the most important/potentially hard to find part for this custom build.

BCG is definitely important. Reedo is the one you need to really answer this question though

Reedo302 12-26-2012 10:39 PM

David's right on the money. BCG is pretty important, and right now it's almost impossible to get. All BCGs are being diverted to production gun builds, so finding them for sale separately is incredibly hard right now. Get on the email notification lists for the BCGs now and monitor your email constantly like you have OCD. I highly recommend Daniel Defense, Noveske, Rainier Arms, Colt, BCM, LMT and LaRue.

A lower parts kit is also at the top of the list. I generally use Daniel Defense or Rock River Arms LPKs (both made by LW Schneider), but Colt, LMT, CMT/Stag and a couple others work as well. Colts will cost you about 2x as much for no good reason, but they're top quality. G&R Tactical has their own LPK which is a pretty excellent kit from what I've heard. I still haven't been able to score one yet, as they sell out so damned fast.

david05111 12-26-2012 11:27 PM

Yeah and if you want a RRA lower parts kit, I can get that locally for you. They're $85 bucks or so. If you want one, could get it to you for like around $90-95 shipped. I'd literally just go pick it up and throw it in the mail for you. The only reason I offer is that some people are having trouble finding them at the moment.

Tom5933 01-04-2013 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david05111 (Post 15009446)
BCG is definitely important. Reedo is the one you need to really answer this question though

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reedo302 (Post 15009512)
David's right on the money. BCG is pretty important, and right now it's almost impossible to get. All BCGs are being diverted to production gun builds, so finding them for sale separately is incredibly hard right now. Get on the email notification lists for the BCGs now and monitor your email constantly like you have OCD. I highly recommend Daniel Defense, Noveske, Rainier Arms, Colt, BCM, LMT and LaRue.

A lower parts kit is also at the top of the list. I generally use Daniel Defense or Rock River Arms LPKs (both made by LW Schneider), but Colt, LMT, CMT/Stag and a couple others work as well. Colts will cost you about 2x as much for no good reason, but they're top quality. G&R Tactical has their own LPK which is a pretty excellent kit from what I've heard. I still haven't been able to score one yet, as they sell out so damned fast.

How would a White Oaks Armament LPK without trigger and then a Geissele SSA-Enhanced trigger work compared to a RRA/Colt/LMT/G&R LPK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by david05111 (Post 15009615)
Yeah and if you want a RRA lower parts kit, I can get that locally for you. They're $85 bucks or so. If you want one, could get it to you for like around $90-95 shipped. I'd literally just go pick it up and throw it in the mail for you. The only reason I offer is that some people are having trouble finding them at the moment.

My bad man, literally just saw this. I think i'm going to hold off on the LPK for now and get a BCG first since i'm in the process of switching jobs and money is a little tight. Thanks though for the offer, I really appreciate it!

Picked up my lower upper today btw, they are gorgeous :drool:

Adam@Euro-Spec 01-04-2013 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5933 (Post 15032765)
How would a White Oaks Armament LPK without trigger and then a Geissele SSA-Enhanced trigger work compared to a RRA/Colt/LMT/G&R LPK?



My bad man, literally just saw this. I think i'm going to hold off on the LPK for now and get a BCG first since i'm in the process of switching jobs and money is a little tight. Thanks though for the offer, I really appreciate it!

Picked up my lower upper today btw, they are gorgeous :drool:

I'm building 2 rifles with woa lpk and geissele triggers right now. Seems very nice but won't be able to comment until i use them

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Bimmer App

Tom5933 01-05-2013 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david05111 (Post 15009446)
BCG is definitely important. Reedo is the one you need to really answer this question though

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reedo302 (Post 15009512)
David's right on the money. BCG is pretty important, and right now it's almost impossible to get. All BCGs are being diverted to production gun builds, so finding them for sale separately is incredibly hard right now. Get on the email notification lists for the BCGs now and monitor your email constantly like you have OCD. I highly recommend Daniel Defense, Noveske, Rainier Arms, Colt, BCM, LMT and LaRue.

A lower parts kit is also at the top of the list. I generally use Daniel Defense or Rock River Arms LPKs (both made by LW Schneider), but Colt, LMT, CMT/Stag and a couple others work as well. Colts will cost you about 2x as much for no good reason, but they're top quality. G&R Tactical has their own LPK which is a pretty excellent kit from what I've heard. I still haven't been able to score one yet, as they sell out so damned fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam@Euro-Spec (Post 15033122)
I'm building 2 rifles with woa lpk and geissele triggers right now. Seems very nice but won't be able to comment until i use them

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Bimmer App

Let me know how it works because I got the idea from you haha. I spent hours last night figuring out what rails i'm considering for this build. At this point here's my (extensive) list.

Rainer Arms Fortis REV 12" $200.00
Rainer Arms RA10-X11 $290.00
Noveske NSR-11 Handgaurd $255.00
Superior Weapons Systems Free Float Tube for AR-15 - Rifle Model $340.00
Daniel Defense MK18 Rail Interface System II, RIS II $400.00
Midwest Industries Gen2 T-Series One Piece Free Float $190.00
Troy BattleRail Bravo 11" $185.00
LaRue Tactical 12" Handgaurd LT15-12 $300.00
Centurion Arms C4 Rail System 12-inch $311.00

Next step is to research optics. EOTech vs Aimpoint. Feel like deciding on an optic is going to be a very long process.

Serbonze 01-05-2013 03:37 PM

Just remember that if you go with the LaRue, you won't have a continuous top rail.

Tom5933 01-05-2013 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serbonze (Post 15034409)
Just remember that if you go with the LaRue, you won't have a continuous top rail.

Great catch, didn't notice that. LaRue is out then, continuous rail is a necessity.

Serbonze 01-05-2013 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5933 (Post 15034451)
Great catch, didn't notice that. LaRue is out then, continuous rail is a necessity.

I owm several of those rails (or nearly identical) and you can't really go wrong. If you have not handled a tube-type rail, I would highly recommend doing so prior to making a final decision.

The MK18 is nice, but its made for an SBR and will be really short on a standard length barrel.

Tom5933 01-05-2013 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serbonze (Post 15034471)
I owm several of those rails (or nearly identical) and you can't really go wrong. If you have not handled a tube-type rail, I would highly recommend doing so prior to making a final decision.

The MK18 is nice, but its made for an SBR and will be really short on a standard length barrel.

Yea they all seem very high quality so it's going to come down to price/looks I guess. And The MK18 says it's 9.5", so I don't think it will be too short as if it were a 20" barrel? I was going for around 12" on the other rails.

Adam@Euro-Spec 01-05-2013 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5933 (Post 15034554)
Yea they all seem very high quality so it's going to come down to price/looks I guess. And The MK18 says it's 9.5", so I don't think it will be too short as if it were a 20" barrel? I was going for around 12" on the other rails.

You can get a 12" ris ii rail as well.


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