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-   -   Nest: Learning Thermostat (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964263)

KeeganB 01-06-2013 09:44 PM

Nest: Learning Thermostat
 
Just picked one if these up. I haven't installed it yet, we are closing on our new house end of this month so I'm just going to wait. Any one have one of these?

http://www.nest.com

Combine that with the Phillips HUE lighting system and you've got basic home automation at 1/25th the cost!

Raymond42262 01-08-2013 08:22 AM

It is an attractive thermostat, but what does it do that any other programmable thermostat does not do ?

KeeganB 01-08-2013 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond42262 (Post 15040971)
It is an attractive thermostat, but what does it do that any other programmable thermostat does not do ?

from my research(limited), it does everything that other programmable thermostats do, but it LEARNS too. Meaning it is supposed to take a lot of the programming, planning, trial/error out of the setup. If you live an more spontaneous less scheduled lifestyle, you don't have to worry about programming your thermo for that b/c it will just learn and adjust accordingly. It uses a motion sensor to detect if you are home, and logs all that info and more. It also connects to (idk which) a weather server to monitor your local weather to automatically help you maximize your energy efficiency.

Either way it is gorgeous! Hal 9000 ?!?!

-Keegan

Raymond42262 01-08-2013 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeeganB (Post 15041000)
from my research(limited), it does everything that other programmable thermostats do, but it LEARNS too. Meaning it is supposed to take a lot of the programming, planning, trial/error out of the setup. If you live an more spontaneous less scheduled lifestyle, you don't have to worry about programming your thermo for that b/c it will just learn and adjust accordingly. It uses a motion sensor to detect if you are home, and logs all that info and more. It also connects to (idk which) a weather server to monitor your local weather to automatically help you maximize your energy efficiency.

Either way it is gorgeous! Hal 9000 ?!?!

-Keegan

OK.

I saw the video but I didn't get that much from it. Interesting.

SLVR JDM 01-08-2013 10:38 AM

I like several things about it:
-The looks and build quality of it. Very cool looking for a thermostat
-The "learning" capability so that it basically programs itself once it understands how you routinely adjust the thermostat, though I admittedly don't touch mine a whole lot.

Things I wouldn't use:
-Smartphone interface to adjust the temperature....I would never use this, though I know the capability will give some people a stiffy

BimmersGarage 01-08-2013 10:50 AM

Does it have apps?

If it can SIRI your voice commands & respond with voice confirmations, plus integrate with other major home appliances - water heater, dishwasher, home alarm etc. That would be something.

KeeganB 01-08-2013 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmersGarage (Post 15041335)
Does it have apps?

If it can SIRI your voice commands & respond with voice confirmations, plus integrate with other major home appliances - water heater, dishwasher, home alarm etc. That would be something.

It does have an iOS app, and a web portal.
the SIRI integration would have to be via an API that Apple would have to allow the NEST developers to use.
The stuff you are asking about with the other appliances is called Home Automation, and no, this thermostat is only a thermostat. True home automation runs in the $10k and up range usually.

BimmersGarage 01-08-2013 01:54 PM

^
Just taking a jab at Nest..

However, since it does have Wifi.. All you need really is a Raspberry Pi board $57 and compile your own code to control Nest or any other home appliances, in this case garage door opener via SIRI. :str8pimpi

Mouf 06-22-2013 11:50 PM

Just purchased my first home and this is one of my first purchases...

joeski3d 06-23-2013 11:11 AM

I was very interested in one but heard there are some serious glitch issues that can occur in the event of (and as a result of) a power outage. Some customers complained of the heater and central air both on at full blast in a fight to control temps.

Waiting for version 3.

SLVR JDM 06-24-2013 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeski3d (Post 15522198)
I was very interested in one but heard there are some serious glitch issues that can occur in the event of (and as a result of) a power outage. Some customers complained of the heater and central air both on at full blast in a fight to control temps.

Waiting for version 3.

:lmao: Yes, V3 sounds like it is the one to have.

Tb151 06-24-2013 07:43 PM

Have em and love em....I actually use the mobile app quite often. We were away this weekend and yesterday is was over 90 degrees. It was awesome being able to turn the AC on an hour before we got home so that the house was nice and cool.

joeski3d 06-25-2013 09:14 AM

What I read which caused me to not consider this product...

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2RPGVN...R2RPGVN5XJVFA5

I received and installed my second-gen Nest thermostat about three weeks ago and was initially very happy with it. Simple to install, beautiful, easy to use, it is certainly all that. Unfortunately, it lacks one characteristic that a thermostat MUST have. It is not robust. It fails under circumstances that a $50 hardware store thermostat would have no problems with, and when it fails it DOES NOT FAIL SAFE - which is a pretty major problem when you're talking about a device that is controlling expensive heat and cooling (and, in a cold climate, keeping your pipes from freezing!)

I was pretty surprised to come home today to a sweltering-hot apartment when the outside temperature was in the mid-to-high sixties. It's a brand-new apartment, very well insulated, and initially I simply thought that all the sun streaming through the skylights and windows was responsible for the high temperature. The Nest indicated that it was 86 degrees inside and of course, with a set point of 50 degrees, it was obviously not heating. (Right?) I set the temperature to 75 and switched it to cooling mode. Cool air started streaming from the AC vents - great. Should cool down in a little while. (Right?) After thirty minutes with the AC on, I was if anything more uncomfortable, so I went over to the Nest again - imagine my surprise when I saw that the inside temperature had gone up to 89 degrees! At this point I knew something was very wrong. It took only a few seconds to determine that the Nest had my heating on full bore - even while the AC was cooling. No wonder the place was sweltering! I called Nest and after a very short debugging session (the customer service agent had obviously seen this many, many times before) he determined that the Nest had failed in such a way that the heating was stuck on, full-time.

The rep informed me that this was a known issue that Nest's engineers were trying to solve. Apparently the Nest, unlike a cheap hardware store thermostat, is extremely sensitive to voltage "spikes" on the wires that connect it to your HVAC. Such spikes are pretty much par for the course in an HVAC environment - those wires are connected to electromechanical relays, transformers, and other old-school electrical gear - and regular thermostats are designed to deal with it, which is why you don't have problems with your cheap Honeywell. (The one I replaced with the Nest had been doing its job happily for the better part of a decade.) But this electrical "noise" can make the Nest fail - and fail spectacularly, typically by leaving the heat (or cooling) on full time, or else keeping them from coming on. Any of those failure modes could get pretty expensive if you happened to be away when they happen - you could burn through a lot of fuel and/or use a lot of electricity, and in the worst case scenario your pipes could freeze and flood your house. Nest knows this, so they are no longer replacing thermostats that fail this way (since their hardware is flawed, any replacement is just going to fail again, and the next time it could be a lot worse). Of course, they won't tell you this in so many words: the company line is that your system (because it exhibits voltage spikes) is "incompatible" with the Nest. Never mind that it is a bog-standard HVAC setup, passed their compatibility test with no issues, and has worked fine for a couple of weeks). Never mind that it works fine with a garden-variety hardware-store thermostat. Naturally Nest doesn't want to admit that their fancy hardware is seriously flawed in its inability to handle the kind of electrical noise that is found on ordinary HVAC control lines, but make no mistake about it: the fault isn't in your system. It's in their thermostat, which isn't designed to handle real-world conditions.

This isn't just a matter of semantics. The problem is that, if you purchased your thermostat from Amazon, Nest wants you to return it to Amazon (not to them). They are explicitly disclaiming any responsibility under their warranty - since it's your HVAC system that's "incompatible," not their thermostat that is broken. Presumably if the thermostat fails outside of Amazon's 30-day return window you're out of luck. At least the Nest would make a nice paperweight. This is the part that really shocked me and made me feel that the company must be getting a bit desperate. Reading the online forums, I can see that this is a pretty common problem, and I suspect that Nest financially can't handle the number of returns it would have to handle if it treated this as a warranty issue. Fortunately, my Nest is only 3 weeks old, so I can return it to Amazon, but I really hate to have to do that - it seems like an abuse of Amazon's generous return policy, when it's really Nest that should be facing up to their problem. I feel very sorry for those whose devices fail, excuse me, prove to be "incompatible" outside of the return window. At least I kept my old thermostat rather than recycling it as Nest suggests I do!

Nest has a serious engineering problem on their hands and I believe they are scrambling to do something about it before it all comes crashing down. (The rep offered to put me on a mailing list to be informed when their engineers fix the issue, presumably so that, I can court disaster again by buying the next version.) They've had a lot of really great press (not undeserved, because their device *is* really nice, when it works) but that can only carry them so far - if the news gets out that their $250 thermostat could leave you overheated or flood your house, they're going to lose that momentum. So it's not surprising that they're trying to frame this as "merely" a compatibility issue. But if I had a Nest at this point, even if it seemed to be working OK, I would still be really, really nervous about it, for two reasons: (1) the device is not robust to typical levels of electrical noise; a voltage spike could happen on any system at any time, possibly breaking the Nest and subjecting to you God-knows-what financial loss, and (2) it's not clear that the company would stand behind their product if that did happen.

Advice: stay far, far away from this product.

zbeam3 06-25-2013 10:14 AM

For the non coders out there, how would one set this up? I would be very interested in a garage door opener as well as a smart phone controllable thermostat. I am holding off on the Nest for now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmersGarage (Post 15041889)
^
Just taking a jab at Nest..

However, since it does have Wifi.. All you need really is a Raspberry Pi board $57 and compile your own code to control Nest or any other home appliances, in this case garage door opener via SIRI. :str8pimpi


WerksM3 06-25-2013 12:57 PM

I've had one since December. It has worked great the whole time with no issues. It's great being able to preheat / precool the house before getting home. I just wish my home had multiple zones so I could have one upstairs and one on the main level.

Wreckless 06-25-2013 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeski3d (Post 15526187)
What I read which caused me to not consider this product...

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2RPGVN...R2RPGVN5XJVFA5

Advice: stay far, far away from this product.


Wow, That's def a good reason to stay away from that thing. Glad I didn't buy one when it first came out. I guess I'll wait for 2.0, or maybe even 3.0

Mouf 06-25-2013 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zbeam3 (Post 15526356)
For the non coders out there, how would one set this up? I would be very interested in a garage door opener as well as a smart phone controllable thermostat. I am holding off on the Nest for now.

kind of off topic, but Craftsman has a new line of garage door openers that does that. Haven't checked for any reviews yet though.

http://www.craftsman.com/garage-door...20000000180763

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wreckless (Post 15527023)
Wow, That's def a good reason to stay away from that thing. Glad I didn't buy one when it first came out. I guess I'll wait for 2.0, or maybe even 3.0

Version 2 is out now, that is the unit that was reviewed. If you read some of the comments after the post it sounds like the main issue is with 2 stage systems, not the single stage systems. I could also be reading it wrong too. :D

KeeganB 07-07-2013 02:26 PM

Nest: Learning Thermostat
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joeski3d (Post 15522198)
I was very interested in one but heard there are some serious glitch issues that can occur in the event of (and as a result of) a power outage. Some customers complained of the heater and central air both on at full blast in a fight to control temps.

Waiting for version 3.

We recently had a power outage and the nest was set in the both "heat and cool" mode and when power was lost it just gave a "power outage" status message. When power was restored in the middle if the morning while we slept it resumed working perfectly.

Either way after about 6 months I am still in love with it. I live in upstate SC so we get some heat, but very very mild winters.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

Cowspoo 08-02-2013 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WerksM3 (Post 15526772)
I've had one since December. It has worked great the whole time with no issues. It's great being able to preheat / precool the house before getting home. I just wish my home had multiple zones so I could have one upstairs and one on the main level.

How would you set this up? Two furnaces - A/c's ? With their own separate vents. Would cold air/warm air be interfering causing balancing issues

NOVAbimmer 10-21-2013 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowspoo (Post 15615536)
How would you set this up? Two furnaces - A/c's ? With their own separate vents. Would cold air/warm air be interfering causing balancing issues

I'd love to be able to set up a system like this in our house. We have a tri-level, and all three floors are generally vastly different temperatures. The thermostat is upstairs, so that's usually the most comfortable floor in the house. Winter time is the worst. The basement is usually OK, especially with the fireplace. The main floor is freezing, and the upper floor is comfortable, since that's where the thermostat is detecting.


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