E46Fanatics

E46Fanatics (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/index.php)
-   General E46 Forum (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   Oil Filter Housing Gasket Post-DIY problem! (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964443)

tasansal 01-07-2013 09:43 PM

Oil Filter Housing Gasket Post-DIY problem!
 
Hello everybody,

I have a 2005 BMW Z4 2.5 Roadster, which shares almost everything with the E46 3 series. I wanted to get help from you guys because I can't figure it out :cry: And there are not so many Z4 drivers out there who like DIYs.

However, I have been reading the forums for a long time but just got an account now.. Unfortunately I have a problem after replacing my oil filter housing gasket. Briefly:

1) Removed the air filter box and loosened the serpentine belt. Also took off the oil filter to drain the oil in the housing to the oil pan.
2) Removed the alternator. (Z4 doesn't have a hydraulic power steering system, so removing the housing was very straightforward)
3) Removed the oil filter housing assembly (also replaced VANOS line in this step incl new washers)
4) Cleaned the burned oil marks, contact points etc.
5) Installed the new gasket & housing. Torqued to 22nm.
6) Installed the alternator
7) Install the belt and air filter box.

Thats basically what I did. The problem is that: The car idles at 900 rpm straight. It used to idle at ~550-600 rpm before the DIY. Also I am hearing a whistle noise below ~1500 rpm, I didn't have that either. I suspected that I could have damaged the MAF, so I unplugged it and nothing changed, in this case it is not the MAF right? And the whistle sound is not coming from the intake. I took off the air intake box for a few seconds and there was no change in the whistle noise. There is definitely something wrong and I can't figure out what it is... I am open to your expert opinions :bow:

I found a video and I have this exact same noise (whistling/purring and the suction noise at the end!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka0-XPb6Zqg

Thank you for your time..

jakksfor20 01-07-2013 09:49 PM

I would check for a crack/split/tear in your intake elbow.

cvx5832 01-07-2013 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakksfor20 (Post 15040003)
I would check for a crack/split/tear in your intake elbow.

Or if it's attached to the ICV or throttle body at all. Its possible to attach it thinking it's snug, you tighten the hose clamp and off it comes.

tasansal 01-07-2013 10:18 PM

Thanks for the replies. Actually I didn't even remove or touch the lower intake boot. But could it be cracked because of moving the hoses a little bit while installing? :banghead: I will check it first thing in the morning tomorrow..

The thing that scares me the most is a broken CCV during this DIY. I don't wanna pay a lot for labor and its a pain in the a** DIY...

Also one more thing, might sound stupid: When doing the VANOS line, can the orientation of the screws with holes in it (banjo screws or whatever can't remember the name) cause this thing? The high RPM thing definitely sounds like air leak, but the weird noise?

Nerdy46 01-07-2013 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tasansal (Post 15040080)
Also one more thing, might sound stupid: When doing the VANOS line, can the orientation of the screws with holes in it (banjo screws or whatever can't remember the name) cause this thing? The high RPM thing definitely sounds like air leak, but the weird noise?

No....




You likely have a vac leak somewhere...

tasansal 01-08-2013 03:22 PM

Ok guys, I inspected the air intake boots and the filter box, couldn't see any cracks etc. However, the rpm issue is acting weird again. When I move and put it on neutral the rpm drops at ~550 which is normal. But when I do a complete stop it idles at ~550 for 2 seconds and goes back to ~800-900. Does this still sound like a leak issue? I will have to put it on a smoke test because there are no visible cracks :(

And I also isolated the whistle/purring noise (you can hear it in the video i posted). This morning when I turned on the car it wasn't there, but when the engine was warm it came back again. It comes from the alternator area. Could it be a pulley noise? I have never heard a pulley make that kind of noise though? I took off almost every part there to get to the OFHG, so could something be loose? Note: I torqued bolts the specs I found online..

Thanks for the help..

FastHackem 01-08-2013 03:28 PM

Tensioner?

dmax 01-08-2013 03:46 PM

Did you put the belt on the same direction it came off in. Did you inspect the angles of alt and idler pulley after replacement. If you didn't line up the notch on idler pulley, you'd have an issue. Also, confirm your alt is mounted right. You can get it on without getting the idler bolt all the way through the back ear...ask me how I know!

Start with confirming the work you did was right...then hunt elsewhere for your sound.

Oh, use a hose to confirm location of sounds...as a stethoscope...and did you replace the vent tube to the alt? If it was off, it might sound a bit louder than before.

tasansal 01-08-2013 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmax (Post 15042344)
Did you put the belt on the same direction it came off in. Did you inspect the angles of alt and idler pulley after replacement. If you didn't line up the notch on idler pulley, you'd have an issue. Also, confirm your alt is mounted right. You can get it on without getting the idler bolt all the way through the back ear...ask me how I know!

Start with confirming the work you did was right...then hunt elsewhere for your sound.

Oh, use a hose to confirm location of sounds...as a stethoscope...and did you replace the vent tube to the alt? If it was off, it might sound a bit louder than before.

Yes the belt is in the same direction (and newer than 4 months). The idler pulley's notch is in the grove of the alternatior, check. I couldn't get what you mean in your last sentence.. The idler bolt seems to be fully seated? The alternator seems to be fit right when I look at it? Is there any way for me to confirm if thats the issue?

I read about the vent tube online, but I didn't have it even at the beginning. I don't know if its lost or Z4s also have it just like e46 chassis?

Thanks.

@FastHackem: The tensioner pulley is dead I will change it with a hydraulic one as soon as possible, I checked it when the OFH was out. But if it was the source of the noise shouldn't it have the same noise before the DIY? It started after the DIY.

dmax 01-08-2013 04:05 PM

If the tensioner pulley is bad, you only need to replace just that...and usually if you have one pulley bad, all three are almost bad...do them all while you can easily.

What I meant is that you can get the idler pulley bolt through the front ear of alt but not through the back ear...and thus the alt would be sitting at a slight angle. I don't know how I missed it when I did that, but it's possible. There's a bushing on the alt's ear that gets pulled out and can hang you up in trying to get it back...but you can see it going through the back ear of alt or not. Look to confirm belt is square on all pulleys.

Also, you know, guys have misrouted the belts before...nothing personal!

HTH

Mango 01-08-2013 04:16 PM

Another comment on the belts, make sure all SMOOTH surfaces of pulleys are touching SMOOTH sides of belts. Ribbed pulleys touch ribbed parts of belts (pay particular attention to alternator deflection pulley)

As for your idle, you most certainly have a vacuum leak. Check CCV plumbing particularly around valve cover and the one that snakes into the manifold DIRECTLY to the CCV. GL!!

Replace all vacuum lines/seals. See third link in my sig!

petemo94 01-08-2013 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tasansal (Post 15042234)
And I also isolated the whistle/purring noise (you can hear it in the video i posted). This morning when I turned on the car it wasn't there, but when the engine was warm it came back again. It comes from the alternator area. Could it be a pulley noise? I have never heard a pulley make that kind of noise though? I took off almost every part there to get to the OFHG, so could something be loose? Note: I torqued bolts the specs I found online..

Thanks for the help..

I had the SAME sound before I did my OFHG, belts, hoses, pulleys, hydraulic tensioner upgrade, Water Pump,...

After the install of all of this, I had the SAME sound coming from the same area you mention (i.e. DISA, intake area). I was hoping the above items would fix it but it didn't. So in this case, the pulleys aren't making the sound. In addition, the alternator wasnt causing the noise either.

My next step will be to look into the DISA and possibly the ICV to see if those 2 things are functioning properly. I'm hoping one of those 2 devices is causing this "grating, irritating" noise. I will also check for the lower intake elbow for leaks. The upper one looked solid with no holes.

My question to everyone else is: is there anyway the CCV be contributing to this noise? I would think a hole in the CCV tubing, which is under some kind of pressure due to engine pressure could make this sound.

BTW, my idle is right on - 650-750 with no issue with it.

Megalocnus 01-08-2013 04:55 PM

Make sure you haven't lost a seal ring or something that goes around the MAF or the air box.

petemo94 01-08-2013 05:01 PM

BTW, the suction noise at the end appears to be a vacuum line of sorts, de-compressing. You can see the DISA valve change in position when that noise occurs. Almost like a "pop-off" valve sound, except when the engine is turned off.

I also verified I get a buzzing noise [1] if I leave the climate on and shut the car off. The higher the temperature on the panel, the longer it takes the buzzing noise in the "DISA area" to stop buzzing. [2] the buzzing noise will be shorter if I had the climate control turned off already well before the car is shut down.

Hope this bit of discovery helps. But I'm curious to find out the source of this annoying noise is (for your and my engine). Don't like the sound of it and not sure its proper.

tasansal 01-08-2013 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmax (Post 15042410)
If the tensioner pulley is bad, you only need to replace just that...and usually if you have one pulley bad, all three are almost bad...do them all while you can easily.

What I meant is that you can get the idler pulley bolt through the front ear of alt but not through the back ear...and thus the alt would be sitting at a slight angle. I don't know how I missed it when I did that, but it's possible. There's a bushing on the alt's ear that gets pulled out and can hang you up in trying to get it back...but you can see it going through the back ear of alt or not. Look to confirm belt is square on all pulleys.

Also, you know, guys have misrouted the belts before...nothing personal!

HTH

I had a cooling system overhaul 3 weeks ago and idler pulley is brand new.. The one which sits instead of the PS pump is ok, but the tensioner pulley is definitely bad I can say that, but as i said before it didn't make this noise before the fix :confused: I will check the idler pulley bolt again to be sure. No personal offense taken, no worries :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by E46Mango (Post 15042434)
Another comment on the belts, make sure all SMOOTH surfaces of pulleys are touching SMOOTH sides of belts. Ribbed pulleys touch ribbed parts of belts (pay particular attention to alternator deflection pulley)

As for your idle, you most certainly have a vacuum leak. Check CCV plumbing particularly around valve cover and the one that snakes into the manifold DIRECTLY to the CCV. GL!!

Replace all vacuum lines/seals. See third link in my sig!

I made sure that flat on flat, ribbed on ribbed when installing it. I didn't have this idle issue before, and started right after OFHG diy. I didn't even touch the CCV tubes (I read a lot about it), and when I take the oil fill cap off, there is suction (which I read was good right?). But CCV is definitely going to fail me soon so i will change it when I have time, its a pita job... What are the chances of my idle problem starting with CCV right now? It is not going down-up-down/rattling all the time etc. The idle is just over what it should be :confused: I had RPM hiccups before, but thats probably the VANOS seals which I will fix them this Thursday if it doesn't rain!

Quote:

Originally Posted by petemo94 (Post 15042556)
I had the SAME sound before I did my OFHG, belts, hoses, pulleys, hydraulic tensioner upgrade, Water Pump,...

After the install of all of this, I had the SAME sound coming from the same area you mention (i.e. DISA, intake area). I was hoping the above items would fix it but it didn't. So in this case, the pulleys aren't making the sound. In addition, the alternator wasnt causing the noise either.

My next step will be to look into the DISA and possibly the ICV to see if those 2 things are functioning properly. I'm hoping one of those 2 devices is causing this "grating, irritating" noise. I will also check for the lower intake elbow for leaks. The upper one looked solid with no holes.

My question to everyone else is: is there anyway the CCV be contributing to this noise? I would think a hole in the CCV tubing, which is under some kind of pressure due to engine pressure could make this sound.

BTW, my idle is right on - 650-750 with no issue with it.

Well I didn't have this noise before the fix, so it has to be something i took off and installed again? Or this might make it more complicated, after getting rid of the leaks, the oil pressure increased to normal and the stupid CCV hoses can't take it anymore :P The sucking sound after turning off the engine could be the DISA shutting down. But I shouldn't be hearing it. I will try cleaning the ICV on Thursday when I start on VCG and VANOS seals and see if it helps.. Oh that stupid 'bird singing' noise is killing me, something is wrong just like you said. You can clearly hear it at 0:19 in the video.

I rebuilt my 'in working condition' DISA just to be on the safe side, with german auto solutions' kit incl. the o-ring back on September and didn't have any issues about it yet. So that is one of the things I can eliminate right now.

@Megalocnus: I might have, I hope I didn't :craig: I checked the floor before driving the car off.. But we can be blind sometimes.. I don't have anyone else around me to check if I am missing anything. Will check realoem..

wildirish317 01-08-2013 09:34 PM

I haven't tried this on my e46 yet, but I used to use starter fluid to check for vacuum leaks. Spray it in the general area, and the engine rpm will increase when a leak sucks in the fluid. You can then isolate the leak by narrowing in on the area, using shorter bursts of spray in more localized areas. With the computerized engine management system used in the E46, does this still work?

xcar360 01-08-2013 09:49 PM

Check for a crack, split, tear

peytonracer4 01-09-2013 01:39 AM

A vacuum leak will cause a high/erratic idle and also create a whistle/whine/purr noise.
It sounds like this is your problem. Sometimes they can be hard to diagnose without a professional smoke test.

avangeline 01-09-2013 02:39 AM

I think that's awesome. Makes me feel layered.
http://www.booksstore.info/11k/bass.jpg
http://www.booksstore.info/jokelist/boa.jpg


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:47 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use