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-   -   S54 FI Comparo (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964739)

Irishace 01-09-2013 03:58 PM

S54 FI Comparo
 
I am currently in the process of reviewing all options for a weekend/track car that I will be purchasing in the spring. The e46 M3 is at the top my list. I plan on learning how to drive the car and then adding power if in fact I go down this path.

Because it is fun to theorcraft about power potential, I have been doing a ton of research on FI options for this car. I have put together a rough comparo of the 3 leading options (these are current options, this will change when the MAX PSI kit comes out).

Some things to note about the graph I have put together:
  • The HPF information was taken from their website, (their new 6766 options has proven to produce more power)
  • The AA information was taken their website
  • The ESS graph was derived from information posted on this forum recently

Cost Info (taken from websites)

HPF Stage II: $15,500
AA Gen 7 Stage II: $11,995
ESS: $8,495 (this is the 550 kit cost but ESS has stated that the 575 kit is no different, just tuning)

Graph
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9...6m3comparo.jpg

You can draw your own conclusions here but HPF clearly has the advantage on power but that comes at a premium. The best value here appears to be the ESS kit but again that is assuming the 575 kit does not come at a premium over the 550 kit. I am anxiously awaiting to see information from MAX-PSI on pricing and power results with improved tuning or perhaps pump + meth.

A major decision point for me will also be proximity of support. The compexities of the HPF kit over SC options scares me a little. I live in Toronto, have a trusted BMW master mechanic I go to but I fear that if I go the HPF route I will have to ship the car for install and potentially ship it again if any major problems arise.

At any rate, this is fun times for me as I am in the cognitive phases with respect to this platform. I still have not decided if I am going to get an S54 as I am also looking at getting back into an N54 or perhaps looking at an S65.

Would appreciate anyone's feedback and experience.

E85head 01-09-2013 04:58 PM

Edit. Did not read your post well enough. Sorry :)

dallasberry 01-09-2013 08:12 PM

I don't think you'll have as much fun in the M5(s65) around the track as compared to a 335/135i(N54) or an M3(S54), It's bulky and not quite as nimble as a smaller three series. My honest feeling if you want to build it up and add more power is go with an E46 M3. You can't beat the price to get into it and there is a plethora of options for power adders for it. Another point to add here is that the M3 is a born track car, it was made for the twisties right out of the box.. I think the N54 is still limited for power adder options (big horsepower) but would still be a formidable track car. It would still need a little TLC though. When I drove one I felt like it was made for comfort more than performance. All of the aftermarket companies have excellent customer service and will take care of you if you have any issues.



So in conclusion if you want a purpose weekend/track car, go M3. You won't be disappointed.

Commanderwiggin 01-09-2013 08:14 PM

In my opinion wait to see what some of the other companies like FSR and MaxPSI come out with shortly ;)

Irishace 01-09-2013 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin (Post 15046399)
In my opinion wait to see what some of the other companies like FSR and MaxPSI come out with shortly ;)

Sage advice, its still early for me as I will be making my decision in late spring so there is likely to be more movement on the platform(s) by then.

Tchleung 01-09-2013 09:49 PM

VT2-575 actually comes with 1 size smaller pulley. Which is why the 575 runs more boost than the 550. Boost and tune is changed to accomplish.

SPDu4ea 01-10-2013 05:25 AM

If by track you mean road course, consider that the HPF kit was not meant to supply meth under those conditions (sustained WOT & high lateral g's) so you should plan on stage 1 power. Area under the curve may still be better, but the SC kits will probably make more peak power (on pump that is; buy 110 leaded and flip the race gas switch & hpf completely dominates).

The maxpsi kit looks to make comparable peak power to the SC kits, being based on higher octane pump fuel (92-93 vs 91) & using DME tuning that can adapt somewhat to fuel quality.

If you can get E85, hpf also offers an ethanol tune for the stage 1 which actually makes more power than the stage 2, but isn't "flex fuel" so you'll need to have a consistent/reliable supply of E85

Dreikraft 01-10-2013 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallasberry (Post 15046392)
I don't think you'll have as much fun in the M5(s65) around the track as compared to a 335/135i(N54) or an M3(S54)

s65 is the e92.
OP - try and get a ride in some of these FI bmws if you can, it will give you a better idea of what kind of powerband you want.

Viral@ActiveAutowerke 01-10-2013 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishace (Post 15045515)
I am currently in the process of reviewing all options for a weekend/track car that I will be purchasing in the spring. The e46 M3 is at the top my list. I plan on learning how to drive the car and then adding power if in fact I go down this path.

Because it is fun to theorcraft about power potential, I have been doing a ton of research on FI options for this car. I have put together a rough comparo of the 3 leading options (these are current options, this will change when the MAX PSI kit comes out).

Some things to note about the graph I have put together:
  • The HPF information was taken from their website, (their new 6766 options has proven to produce more power)
  • The AA information was taken their website
  • The ESS graph was derived from information posted on this forum recently

Cost Info (taken from websites)

HPF Stage II: $15,500
AA Gen 7 Stage II: $11,995
ESS: $8,495 (this is the 550 kit cost but ESS has stated that the 575 kit is no different, just tuning)

Graph
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9...6m3comparo.jpg

You can draw your own conclusions here but HPF clearly has the advantage on power but that comes at a premium. The best value here appears to be the ESS kit but again that is assuming the 575 kit does not come at a premium over the 550 kit. I am anxiously awaiting to see information from MAX-PSI on pricing and power results with improved tuning or perhaps pump + meth.

A major decision point for me will also be proximity of support. The compexities of the HPF kit over SC options scares me a little. I live in Toronto, have a trusted BMW master mechanic I go to but I fear that if I go the HPF route I will have to ship the car for install and potentially ship it again if any major problems arise.

At any rate, this is fun times for me as I am in the cognitive phases with respect to this platform. I still have not decided if I am going to get an S54 as I am also looking at getting back into an N54 or perhaps looking at an S65.

Would appreciate anyone's feedback and experience.

Thanks for posting this graph but there is a lot of variables to these systems leading to these results provided above. Below I have posted a graph of our Active Autowerke Stage 1 vs Stage 2 Comparison to display the power potential with our HKS GTS 8550 System.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8326/8...cbd93608_b.jpg

To the OP I recently sold my 135i (N54) and I am going back to the E46 and most likely with a S54, good luck with your search and looking forward to your project. :hi:

secono330ci 01-10-2013 05:26 PM

Link not working viral

Viral@ActiveAutowerke 01-10-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secono330ci (Post 15049357)
Link not working viral

:shhh: Try this... http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8326/8...cbd93608_b.jpg

:craig:

secono330ci 01-10-2013 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viral@ActiveAutowerke (Post 15049396)

:)

dallasberry 01-10-2013 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreikraft (Post 15048758)
s65 is the e92.
OP - try and get a ride in some of these FI bmws if you can, it will give you a better idea of what kind of powerband you want.

Thanks for making me look dumb BEN. Wait.... did I make myself look dumb.. well ****.

Not sure what I was thinking.

MarcusLSB 01-11-2013 04:56 AM

You can't beat the simplicity of a S/C setup.. but some of the fastest (non sanctioned) E46 m3's on the track are stage 1 turbo cars. My personal ideal setup for track use would be a 6766 on E85 (or flex fuel). Honestly I think Kenton's right though, come a few months there may be more options available. I'm really liking what I'm seeing from MaxPSI. One of the biggest benefits to a Saad or HPF style standalone/piggyback kit is that sure.. the entry may be higher but the sky's the limit on adding more power down the road should you want it.

Irishace 01-11-2013 06:52 AM

I really like the MAX-PSI power curve. It has also proven to be a pretty darn good power maker on race gas. I really am following along closely. As for HPF, it would be awesome but the price tag, installation and ongoing expenses just scare the daylights out of me.

Irishace 01-11-2013 02:35 PM

Attached is a graph that includes the MAX-PSI turbo race gas power curve against some other platforms along with the superhcharged S54.

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/4609/biggerpower.jpg

MachRc 01-11-2013 04:06 PM

Thanks for making the cool comparo chart!

MarcusLSB 01-12-2013 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishace (Post 15051071)
I really like the MAX-PSI power curve. It has also proven to be a pretty darn good power maker on race gas. I really am following along closely. As for HPF, it would be awesome but the price tag, installation and ongoing expenses just scare the daylights out of me.

With any build it can be a roll of the dice.. some of which is just sheer luck. I know of quite a few HPF Stage 1-2.5 owners that have had little to no problems.. I also know of some that have.. including myself. I think that goes for any kit, regardless of just the power..

7to3_enthusiast 01-12-2013 05:24 AM

I can't speak for everyone, but I'm ready to see some real world kit vs kit action whether it be on the track or street. A MaxPSI vs say HPF stage 1 (w/meth?) would be interesting for instance. I know that can be a touchy subject but it would help make a decision with the associated prices. My 2 cents.

7to3_enthusiast 01-12-2013 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishace (Post 15052160)
Attached is a graph that includes the MAX-PSI turbo race gas power curve against some other platforms along with the superhcharged S54.

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/4609/biggerpower.jpg

...and I've asked this before, but why in the world is that N54 making ~100+rwhp than the s54 at 4000 rpms and up? Yes, I'm hatin.


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