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-   -   How cross would you guys be if I bought a mazda? (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=966086)

pythonis 01-17-2013 09:02 AM

How cross would you guys be if I bought a mazda?
 
Hey all, Pythonis here,

Looking at importing a mazda in the next two years (since its got a rotary and the government hate those cant drive it on my p plates, yarda yarda yarda) so when I get off them (or right on the dot off them) was thinking of trading in my lovely e46 323ci aegean blue individual with roughly 150,000kms (by then im sure). Its not your standard rotary though, its a 20b or 3 rotor twin turbo 300horses 1995 mazda cosmo. should be able to get one into aus for less than my car is worth (potentially) and then have somthing as fast (if I boost it up a bit) as an m3, well in a straight line at least :P
I would go with an M3 if they get to less than 15 grand by then, but you never know.

anyway, thoughts on this ridiclous idea I will probably regret when I have more problems than my intermittent aircon issues Im having now with a 13 year old car :P
(maybe the 323 is just going through puberty?)
http://www.motorstown.com/images/mazda-cosmo-03.jpg

~ Pythonis

BrisM3 01-17-2013 02:21 PM

JC Cosmos are awesome beasts of cars. Not the same as an M3 by any stretch of the imagine (full-on automatic luxury triple-rotor barge versus a sports coupe). But, an awesome car.

Brissyjohn 01-17-2013 03:04 PM

Mazda = good. Rotary = not good and could give you more grief than the BMW. However, problems will probably be limited to the engine as opposed to just about everything that can fall off, break or cease to function properly on a BMW. :rolleyes:

Alpine 01-17-2013 04:03 PM

Kinda looks like a Silvia...

BrisM3 01-17-2013 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brissyjohn (Post 15070274)
Mazda = good. Rotary = not good and could give you more grief than the BMW. However, problems will probably be limited to the engine as opposed to just about everything that can fall off, break or cease to function properly on a BMW. :rolleyes:

Are you serious?

I have owned and been around rotary engines for the last 22 years and can say unequivocally that you will get no problems from a properly built rotor. What's there to go wrong? Backyard builders butcher them and engines will fail, but the same thing goes for a piston engine. And when you have a problem with a rotary engine the cost of a rebuild is significantly less than a piston engine rebuild.

There is far less to go wrong in a rotary engine so far as moving parts etc are concerned.

There is certainly the legend of the unreliable rotary engine, but as with most things which are urban legends they are a distortion of the actual truth.

selien 01-17-2013 08:40 PM

Love the Cosmos, had a mate that use to import *** cars and he had a 92 or 94? (f*ck if I can remember) Cosmos with a 20b triple rotor, i loved it, he wanted like 18k for it, I was sooo close to buying it. Only reason why I didnt was cause of the maintanence, Im a lazy bastard. Id say do it, Cosmos is a unique and rare (in AU) car and they still look good and have TONS of features

God_speed 01-17-2013 08:49 PM

Fewer moving parts and no reciprocating mass, but aren't they infamous for wearing out rotor seals (apex seals) in double quick time, leading to loss of compression and the tell-tale ton of black and blue smoke out the back? They're also not the most economical, but that's a separate issue I suppose.

I like the look of those Cosmos. It's a 'unique' choice that you don't see around that often.

I think almost every car that's interesting has its weak points though. Go with what you want!

BrisM3 01-18-2013 12:03 AM

In the really old days (read 1969) Mazda did have trouble holding compression in their very early 10A engines (L10A and L10B Cosmos R100s).

But, materials these days are exceptional and you can even get lifetime warranties on some apex seals. Side seals can be an issue if they are not cut EXACTLY right but otherwise they can make very good power and hold it for many years trouble free.

Rob32R 01-18-2013 04:18 AM

Are we really getting into a Mazda VS BMW conversation? When it comes to steering feel and being connected with the car Germans do it much better than the Japanese. However, steering response on the other hand I would have to hand it to Mazda. It's all because the Japanese Koreisha Mark believe in the 1950's steering assistance. Makes their cars feel lighter, and more nimble if that makes sense. Mazda is, and always has been, exceptional at delivering nimble sports cars i.e. the MX5, RX7's and the JC Cosmos etc. The M3 has more power out of the box whether it be 6MT or SMG, and it can easily make 300hp+ with any number of low boost forced induction kits if you were to go down that path.

Which one have you really got your eye on? The E36 or E46?

Good luck with which way you go :)

11EAS 01-18-2013 04:49 AM

20B :drool:

millerj69 01-18-2013 05:06 AM

It definitely has a unique cool factor to it. I say go for it, especially if you will enjoy working on it.

Brissyjohn 01-18-2013 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrisM3 (Post 15070799)
Are you serious?

I have owned and been around rotary engines for the last 22 years and can say unequivocally that you will get no problems from a properly built rotor.

Yep, I'm serious. I got rid of my last rotary 37 years ago. Heaps of power, abysmal fuel economy, chewed oil and eventually seals. All within 20,000km of normal driving from new with an occasional burst up to the red line. I think I got totally sick of having to warm it up to operating temp before going anywhere - especially in sub- zero temperatures in Canberra when I had to leave home at 5:00 am for work at the time. Then the mechanical problems started...

Sherweeeny 01-18-2013 07:38 AM

Maybe set some higher life goals so you don't have to import an older and lesser car in a couple years from now?

pythonis 01-18-2013 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherweeeny (Post 15072623)
Maybe set some higher life goals so you don't have to import an older and lesser car in a couple years from now?

This is actualy an imporvment from my ideaof doing up a '99 wrx :P Ilike the idea of somthing unique and rare,this thing covers all grounds and gives some pretty easy mods to get it faster than an e46 m3 in a straight line.

I was thinking of going straight to a e36 m3 but again on my plates limited to a 3litre 210kw instead of the 236 one :P and with theirage the pair of cars are going to need work, especially for the pricerange and yesr im looking at.

Also the guys fighting over the rotary, there is point, one of you hasnt touched one in over 30 years ( thats older than a delorean) so that kinda doesnt prove a point unless i was buying a 30 year old rotary.

My real goal has always been an xj220 and a delorean, but wont be seeing those for a looong time :P

Brissyjohn 01-18-2013 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythonis (Post 15072708)
Also the guys fighting over the rotary, there is point, one of you hasnt touched one in over 30 years ( thats older than a delorean) so that kinda doesnt prove a point unless i was buying a 30 year old rotary.

It's not a fight. The rotary engine still has problems with fuel economy and oil use. The jury is still out on reliability issues. There are few long term rotary engined car owners which probably speaks for itself. Why Mazda has persisted with the concept for over 40 years is beyond me.

trive2 01-18-2013 04:12 PM

Those people I know with new RX-7's have been told by Mazda and other mechanics to get rid of them before they go too far over 100,000km... but again, could just be the rumours.

Either way, they sound like a farting camel after eating a barrel of curry and that's enough for me.

Caosa 01-18-2013 06:52 PM

Probably abit biased here but I'll be as honest as I can. If you're talking daily driver don't do it - you're probably looking at 17-18L/100km without being heavy footed (which is necessary for a rotary might I add). You'll find yourself constantly having to maintain oil levels (every 5k or so). Reliability isn't that much of an issue if you maintain it correctly and service as usual despite their notoriety, like BrisM3 was saying the after market apex seals are ever improving. They're also all automatic so if you wanted a manual you'd have to sort that out for yourself.

All that being said, its sooo easy to get power out of a rotary and nothing beats the sound of a bridgeport (fk the haters!), an NA 20B BP makes around 330 rwhp, to give you some perspective. The rotary community is abit niche but its always growing and they really like to help each other out with tips or advice so if you do end up getting one there is plenty of support.

Good luck with your decision!

BrisM3 01-18-2013 08:08 PM

^^^^ ported rotaries are the nuts!!

But I much prefer PP to BP. My 13B PP series 1 Rx-7 was sooooo much fun. Should never have sold it!

pythonis 01-19-2013 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caosa (Post 15074779)
Probably abit biased here but I'll be as honest as I can. If you're talking daily driver don't do it - you're probably looking at 17-18L/100km without being heavy footed (which is necessary for a rotary might I add). You'll find yourself constantly having to maintain oil levels (every 5k or so). Reliability isn't that much of an issue if you maintain it correctly and service as usual despite their notoriety, like BrisM3 was saying the after market apex seals are ever improving. They're also all automatic so if you wanted a manual you'd have to sort that out for yourself.

All that being said, its sooo easy to get power out of a rotary and nothing beats the sound of a bridgeport (fk the haters!), an NA 20B BP makes around 330 rwhp, to give you some perspective. The rotary community is abit niche but its always growing and they really like to help each other out with tips or advice so if you do end up getting one there is plenty of support.

Good luck with your decision!

10 points to you, Your pros and cons list was actually
Pretty fair.

So basically as with any unique and "rare" cars there will be work to do, and as a daily driver it would be quite a but of work, hmmm. Well its still 2 years away and I will see if my 323 holds up both physically and financially.

Ballistic325 01-19-2013 08:03 AM

Heart says rotary, head says to look twice.

I love rotaries and the Cosmo is awesome but they do take a little more attention than piston engine cars. That said, if you can care for your aging E46, you can probably deal with a used rotary. At a guess, the car you buy will have done many thousands of km and will possibly be close to needing engine and suspension work so be prepared for that. On the plus side, you can then tune the build to whatever you desire including using better quality components as suggested by Bris and Coasa.

Don't forget about insurance costs...

Lastly, years ago when I was last driving a rotor and still kept up with the,magazine articles, there was a guy who imported a 20B Cosmo and attempted a manual swap from an S6 or S7 RX-7. All the onboard computers had a massive freak out and after many months he got it to crank and run but all the systems weren't behaving. Things have probably come a long way since then but the point is to be careful and investigate your options and know what you want.

With an E36 M3 you are buying a 'known entity' and should have a pretty good amount of knowledge readily available to you.

Good luck.... I'm very excited for you :thumbup:


Sent from my V9 using Bimmer App


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