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-   -   AR optics (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=968426)

wrighterjw10 01-29-2013 09:05 PM

AR optics
 
some of you have so much knowledge...looking to pick your brain.

anything low-moderate price that isn't a total waste? just looking for target shooting, i'd say 200 yards max.

thanks!

Adam@Euro-Spec 01-29-2013 09:15 PM

Price range? Do you want a scope or red dot? Whats the purpose? There's a whole optic thread you should take a look at, reedo has some excellent posts in there.

NFRs2000nyc 01-29-2013 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam@Euro-Spec (Post 15109493)
Price range? Do you want a scope or red dot? Whats the purpose? There's a whole optic thread you should take a look at, reedo has some excellent posts in there.

Whats the benefit/difference of each (scope and red dot).....a red dot isn't a scope?

wrighterjw10 01-29-2013 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam@Euro-Spec (Post 15109493)
Price range? Do you want a scope or red dot? Whats the purpose? There's a whole optic thread you should take a look at, reedo has some excellent posts in there.

target

i'm thinking scope, but i'm open to other options...

Adam@Euro-Spec 01-29-2013 09:55 PM

Have you read this:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=965137

What is your budget?

Are you going to be doing bench shooting? Training drills from 7yrd to 200yrds? Competition shooting like 3 gun? Are you building a precision ar or a fighting rifle? What kind of barrel/set up do you plan on running. And are you going to trust your life with the rifle or just strictly for plinking?

Adam@Euro-Spec 01-29-2013 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc (Post 15109499)
Whats the benefit/difference of each (scope and red dot).....a red dot isn't a scope?

Short answer from somebody not very qualified(me). Red dot is not magnified and is designed to be shot with 2 eyes open and very fast target acquisition with a very good field of view. A scope is usually magnified and but can be 1x(most scopes that are that low of magnification are not a true 1x though unless you pay for a high quality scope). Scopes are for precision/longer range shooting for the most part. There are some amazing 1-4,1-6 and 1-8 scopes that can somewhat give you the best of both worlds. You can run a magnifier for red dots to that will give you better ability at longer ranges.
But like always it depends on your needs/mission/goal that dictates what suits you best. The above thread is a good place to start and I believe there's quite a few optic discussions on here.

Reedo302 01-29-2013 10:09 PM

A good red dot that I've been hearing a lot of positive press about is the Bushnell TRS-25.
http://www.primaryarms.com/Bushnell_...p/bs731303.htm


If you want a magnified optic, you have a couple options, depending on how much you want to spend:

Weaver Tactical Grand Slam 3-10x40 $299
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/598...-reticle-matte

Bushnell Elite Tactical 10x40 $249
http://swfa.com/Bushnell-10x40-Elite...pe-P48273.aspx

Redfield Revolution scopes $219 or $269
3-9x40 w/ Mount $219
4-12x40 w/ Mount $269

2000_328CI 01-29-2013 10:11 PM

My cousin gave me this EOTech

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8360/8...6d022c5e5a.jpg

NFRs2000nyc 01-29-2013 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam@Euro-Spec (Post 15109695)
Short answer from somebody not very qualified(me). Red dot is not magnified and is designed to be shot with 2 eyes open and very fast target acquisition with a very good field of view. A scope is usually magnified and but can be 1x(most scopes that are that low of magnification are not a true 1x though unless you pay for a high quality scope). Scopes are for precision/longer range shooting for the most part. There are some amazing 1-4,1-6 and 1-8 scopes that can somewhat give you the best of both worlds. You can run a magnifier for red dots to that will give you better ability at longer ranges.
But like always it depends on your needs/mission/goal that dictates what suits you best. The above thread is a good place to start and I believe there's quite a few optic discussions on here.

I was shooting a friend's AR (varmint) at 200 yards. He had a Vortex scope, I believe it was a 20x (although I wasn't using the full 20 and had a fun time....but it must say, it was a bit easy. Also honestly, while my vision is good, I don't think I could hit a target at 200 yards (we were shooting at something the size of a dessert plate) with no magnification. The scope was zero'ed in perfectly, so I was nailing the plate dead center everytime. I think a red dot would would for a combat rifle, but for a varmint/sniper, me thinks a scope is the way to go for me.

NFRs2000nyc 01-29-2013 10:21 PM

One more thing....something of an ergonomics issue....is it possible to mount a scope offset towards the cheek side, and not directly on top of the rifle...sorry for the ultra noob questions guys.

Reedo302 01-29-2013 11:18 PM

There are some Russian mounts for AK style rifles that are offset to the left. It was found a long time ago that this is NOT ideal, so nobody offers are mount for telescopic optics that is offset. You can mount a scope directly on top, but then have a red dot offset to the side. You need to have the scope itself directly over the bore line, or you can't accurately adjust windage or use horizontal holdovers.

Hitting a chest size target with a red dot at 200yds is easy with some practice, but it's a LOT easier with magnification. You definitely need a 2MOA dot to do it, though. Anything larger gets difficult.

NFRs2000nyc 01-29-2013 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reedo302 (Post 15110003)
There are some Russian mounts for AK style rifles that are offset to the left. It was found a long time ago that this is NOT ideal, so nobody offers are mount for telescopic optics that is offset. You can mount a scope directly on top, but then have a red dot offset to the side. You need to have the scope itself directly over the bore line, or you can't accurately adjust windage or use horizontal holdovers.

Hitting a chest size target with a red dot at 200yds is easy with some practice, but it's a LOT easier with magnification. You definitely need a 2MOA dot to do it, though. Anything larger gets difficult.

Is that right? So I can have a scope AND a red dot offset? Seems like a win win no?....or am I missing something?

david05111 01-30-2013 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc (Post 15110072)
Is that right? So I can have a scope AND a red dot offset? Seems like a win win no?....or am I missing something?

Yeah, weight and balance

M3_POWER 01-30-2013 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000_328CI (Post 15109733)


I'm sorry, but that doesn't contribute to the thread. Eotechs are quite pricey as well.

If you want quick acquisition, I would go with a red dot. As mentioned earlier, go with a scope if you care more about accuracy.

wrighterjw10 01-30-2013 05:38 PM

whats the distance that i should consider a scope rather than a fixed sight? any budget fixed sight suggestions?

Serbonze 01-30-2013 06:13 PM

Did you go read the link that Adam provided to the optic thread?

Reedo302 01-30-2013 06:19 PM

If you're going to regularly be shooting beyond 50yds, that's where magnification starts to be more necessary.

As far as the other stuff, read that thread that Adam posted to if you haven't already. It has some pictures and explanations for good stuff to consider.

david05111 01-30-2013 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reedo302 (Post 15113152)
If you're going to regularly be shooting beyond 50yds, that's where magnification starts to be more necessary.

As far as the other stuff, read that thread that david posted to if you haven't already. It has some pictures and explanations for good stuff to consider.

You mean Adam, but I'll take the credit :pimpin:


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