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-   -   Key fob and clock light on dash wont go off (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=971636)

slowrunningE46 02-17-2013 10:31 PM

Key fob and clock light on dash wont go off
 
Been reading forums on problems with the key fob. I have a problem myself and hope its nothing too big to fix. First off I've been having problems with my 01 330i having no heat. Still haven't fixed that problem, but I parked the car outside since December. Starting it two times a week to make sure it idles good and the battery is good. Well today, I figured I would fool around with it trying to fix my heat. I didn't start it mid week, so this was the first time in 8 days I started it. I pushed the unlock key and it wouldn't unlock. So I manually put the key in and unlocked the door. Opened the door and the alarm was going off. I couldn't cut it off with the key, so I stuck the key in the ignition and started the car so the alarm would shut off. I let it idle for 20 min and turned it off and noticed the dash light was still on where the clock was when I took the key out. I couldn't lock the car with the key, so I locked the door manually and the light stayed on. Two minutes later the alarm goes off and eventually stops after a few minutes. Now the light is on where the clock is and its killing my battery. My key doesn't work to lock and unlock. I think the alarm is still armed ever since I started it with the key the first time. Anyone know what I should do. I disconnected the battery and left it like that. Its either the key battery or the car battery. I need to find a way to get the key to work and I think the dash light will turn off. (The alarm light isn't blinking on the rear view mirror). Please, throw your suggestions my way. Thanks

Surrept 02-18-2013 05:26 AM

Well. I'll try to help you with a couple things.

First as far as the heat goes. Does the blower not work? Meaning when you say you don't have heat, do you mean air is coming out but it's not hot, or is there no air coming out of the vents at all? If it is the latter and there is no air coming out, it is probably your Final Stage Resistor. Costs about 50 bucks online and is pretty easy to replace. Just search the site for a DYI on that.

Second. The cheapest way to test your alarm issue would be to just replace the battery in the key. It's not exactly the simplest DYI due to the fact that the battery is not removable and the key is sealed, but it can be done. You need to slice the key open using a blade of some sort (be careful), once you open up the key you will see how the battery is attached to the small circuit board.

You can then clip the terminal that is attached to the battery so you can remove it. (you might be able to use a soldering iron and heat it up and remove it that way, I forget honestly since its been about 6 years since I had to do this on mine. Once you have the battery out you can look up the type of battery and order a new one online.

I ordered mine from Mouser Electronics for like a buck fifty plus shipping. Then just pop the battery in and solder the terminals back to it like the old one and then be careful when closing the key back up making sure not to break any of the components on the inside. Reseal using superglue.

You COULD also just order a new key from the dealership which will run you about 250 bucks. But if you have the patience it is WAYYYYYYY cheaper going the DYI route.

Something seems fishy though to be honest. I can't imagine the car isn't supposed to disable the alarm when opening it from the key cylinder on the door. Who knows though.

Edit: Read another thread by you on the heat issue, It seems you are getting air. I know this may sound stupid, but there is a center control right between the 2 middle airvents that goes up for heat and down for cold air, sometimes people miss that thinking the electronic control is the only way to control the temp of the air coming out. Just figured I would mention that in case.

slowrunningE46 02-18-2013 05:51 AM

fsr key fob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Surrept (Post 15172568)
Well. I'll try to help you with a couple things.

First as far as the heat goes. Does the blower not work? Meaning when you say you don't have heat, do you mean air is coming out but it's not hot, or is there no air coming out of the vents at all? If it is the latter and there is no air coming out, it is probably your Final Stage Resistor. Costs about 50 bucks online and is pretty easy to replace. Just search the site for a DYI on that.

Second. The cheapest way to test your alarm issue would be to just replace the battery in the key. It's not exactly the simplest DYI due to the fact that the battery is not removable and the key is sealed, but it can be done. You need to slice the key open using a blade of some sort (be careful), once you open up the key you will see how the battery is attached to the small circuit board.

You can then clip the terminal that is attached to the battery so you can remove it. (you might be able to use a soldering iron and heat it up and remove it that way, I forget honestly since its been about 6 years since I had to do this on mine. Once you have the battery out you can look up the type of battery and order a new one online.

I ordered mine from Mouser Electronics for like a buck fifty plus shipping. Then just pop the battery in and solder the terminals back to it like the old one and then be careful when closing the key back up making sure not to break any of the components on the inside. Reseal using superglue.

You COULD also just order a new key from the dealership which will run you about 250 bucks. But if you have the patience it is WAYYYYYYY cheaper going the DYI route.

Something seems fishy though to be honest. I can't imagine the car isn't supposed to disable the alarm when opening it from the key cylinder on the door. Who knows though.

Edit: Read another thread by you on the heat issue, It seems you are getting air. I know this may sound stupid, but there is a center control right between the 2 middle airvents that goes up for heat and down for cold air, sometimes people miss that thinking the electronic control is the only way to control the temp of the air coming out. Just figured I would mention that in case.

Hot-cold dial I have already tried. The vents all blow, but auto does nothing. No air blowing out the vents when I push auto.
As for the key, if I replace the battery, do I have to reprogram it. Just asking, because I dont have a spare. Car only came with one key. And would a bad battery in the key cause my cluster light to stay on?

scottjoh 02-18-2013 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowrunningE46 (Post 15171951)
I pushed the unlock key and it wouldn't unlock. So I manually put the key in and unlocked the door. Opened the door and the alarm was going off. I couldn't cut it off with the key, so I stuck the key in the ignition and started the car so the alarm would shut off. I let it idle for 20 min and turned it off and noticed the dash light was still on where the clock was when I took the key out. I couldn't lock the car with the key, so I locked the door manually and the light stayed on. Two minutes later the alarm goes off and eventually stops after a few minutes. Now the light is on where the clock is and its killing my battery. My key doesn't work to lock and unlock. I think the alarm is still armed ever since I started it with the key the first time. Anyone know what I should do. I disconnected the battery and left it like that. Its either the key battery or the car battery. I need to find a way to get the key to work and I think the dash light will turn off. (The alarm light isn't blinking on the rear view mirror).

No, the dash light problem is not related to the key. Almost sounds like the ignition switch is bad. But, that's just a guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowrunningE46 (Post 15172576)
As for the key, if I replace the battery, do I have to reprogram it.

Yes, for the remote functions. No, for starting the car.
Quote:

Originally Posted by slowrunningE46 (Post 15172576)
And would a bad battery in the key cause my cluster light to stay on?

No.

GolfingDuck 02-18-2013 01:50 PM

I would check the coolant level is ok then I would give the car a good run in order to charge up your battery and the battery in your key.
Keep an eye on the temp gauge and see what's shown.

Surrept 02-18-2013 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottjoh (Post 15173406)
No, the dash light problem is not related to the key. Almost sounds like the ignition switch is bad. But, that's just a guess.

Yes, for the remote functions. No, for starting the car.

Umm. You wouldn't have to reprogram the key if you replace the battery. That doesn't even make any sense. I replaced the battery and all of my key functionality resumed as normal. You aren't changing the circuitry, just the battery.

EDIT: Also when I purchased a replacement battery for my key, I do remember the website stating that those batteries are good for 1000 charges. So you can't charge them forever and it may be time for a replacement.

scottjoh 02-18-2013 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surrept (Post 15173505)
Umm. You wouldn't have to reprogram the key if you replace the battery. That doesn't even make any sense. I replaced the battery and all of my key functionality resumed as normal. You aren't changing the circuitry, just the battery.

EDIT: Also when I purchased a replacement battery for my key, I do remember the website stating that those batteries are good for 1000 charges. So you can't charge them forever and it may be time for a replacement.

If power is removed from the key fob circuit for a short enough period of time the capacitors can keep the rolling code position alive so that resyncing is not necessary, but, that is not always the case and resyncing will be necessary to get back the remote functions.

I'll quote from the battery data sheet, "Approx., 1000 times at 10% discharge depth to nominal capacity." Since under normal conditions the battery is never discharged anywhere near that deep they will last much much longer. 10+ years is not a problem. I repair a lot of keys and I only have to replace the original battery when the customer has f'd it all up following that idiot on YouTube that says to break the leadframe off the battery at the weld points.... If the battery hasn't been dicked with I just repair the key, close it up and send it back with the original battery. The original battery always measures between 3.1 and 3.3 Volts and brand new batteries measure only 3.0 Volts since they don't come from the factory fully charged.

Surrept 02-18-2013 02:45 PM

Yeah I didn't mean it will only last 1000 times. I was just quoting the txt from the website. I realize that it never gets discharged fully. I think it really depends on how much you use it though. I purchased my last 02' 330ci in 2007 and my battery was shot within like 2 months of owning it. So I only made it 5 years.

Also I can't imagine the cap will store energy for that long. It certainly isn't a big cap. And I had my battery out for quite some time before I got the new one in and I still had remote functionality. You sure it works like that? Just asking as my experience seems to contradict what you are saying. I figured it was non-volatile.

slowrunningE46 02-18-2013 07:20 PM

Key fob and no heat
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scottjoh (Post 15173630)
If power is removed from the key fob circuit for a short enough period of time the capacitors can keep the rolling code position alive so that resyncing is not necessary, but, that is not always the case and resyncing will be necessary to get back the remote functions.

I'll quote from the battery data sheet, "Approx., 1000 times at 10% discharge depth to nominal capacity." Since under normal conditions the battery is never discharged anywhere near that deep they will last much much longer. 10+ years is not a problem. I repair a lot of keys and I only have to replace the original battery when the customer has f'd it all up following that idiot on YouTube that says to break the leadframe off the battery at the weld points.... If the battery hasn't been dicked with I just repair the key, close it up and send it back with the original battery. The original battery always measures between 3.1 and 3.3 Volts and brand new batteries measure only 3.0 Volts since they don't come from the factory fully charged.

Update: Ok, leaving the battery unplugged fixed the dash light and my key now works. I guess it just needed to be charged. Now as for the heat, the heat is warm only when driving and I noticed that the inside windshield gets fogged when i'm driving and when the car is off. Could be because its cold outside. Feels like my AC isn't working like it should, would that effect the no heat issue? But I dont smell any coolant or leaks on the floor. I dont know what else it could be. I can start changing piece by piece until its fixed or just replace the heater core and hope that is the problem. I'm moving to Dallas next week and really dont need heat in a month, but I would like to get it fixed.


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