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-   -   Autocross Tires for 2013 (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=983978)

Kubica 04-25-2013 01:01 PM

Autocross Tires for 2013
 
Thoughts on tires for the upcoming season?

I was hoping to start a discussion based on actual experience, rather than an analysis of Tirerack and C&D reviews.

Possibilities:

A) Dunlop Start Spec 2
B) BFGoodrich Rival
C) Bridgestone RE-11A

Also, what's the deal with the Michelin SuperSports as an autox tire? I have read they are faster than the old Star Specs? Can anyone confirm or deny with actual experience? They weigh several pounds less than the tires listed above, so I am considering them.

I am currently on 235/40/18 Star Specs on BBS RCs and I think I could go faster on a shorter, lighter tire with slightly less grip. Straight line acceleration takes a big hit when I switch out my winter setup (225/45/17 Hakka's on BBS RKs) that weight 4.5 pounds less at each corner. Most of that weight increase is in the tire, and they also stand about 1/2" taller.

murph1379 04-25-2013 01:36 PM

I think you'll find that the acceleration differences are much more in the gearing (tire height) than the weight. Even in a torqueless car like a miata, it's hard to notice weight differences in lap times. (GRM actually tested this)

I'd recommend a 245/17 or 255/17 on a 9"+ wheel.

Kubica 04-25-2013 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murph1379 (Post 15372571)
I think you'll find that the acceleration differences are much more in the gearing (tire height) than the weight. Even in a torqueless car like a miata, it's hard to notice weight differences in lap times. (GRM actually tested this)

I'd recommend a 245/17 or 255/17 on a 9"+ wheel.

I have a 8" wide 17" wheel or a 8.5" wide 18" wheel.

A 235/35/18 would be nice but not available. I am leaning toward a 235/40/17.

Interesting question- what's faster on a torque-limited car: 235/40/17 at 24.4" tall or 245/40/17 at 24.7" tall.

Keep in mind I will have to lose some front camber if I go up to a 245 in order to stay in my class. We have 5 BMW autox classes in the Boston BMWCCA and a finely tuned points system to determine which class you run in. If interested, check it out here: http://www.boston-bmwcca.org/Autocro...ification.aspx

katu 04-25-2013 11:10 PM

I only have personal experience with Michelin Super Sports for autocross. I like them but I think I am going with the Bridgestone RE-11A next time around. I've been reading a lot and the Super Sport will last longer and do better in the rain, but the RE-11A is a better autocross tire for sure.

lejeunebimmer 04-26-2013 01:21 PM

Have you considered Hankook RS-3?

dreamdrivedrift 04-26-2013 03:08 PM

Rival and Direzza ZII will be the top dogs for the season. I have a set of the ZIIs but haven't had a chance to autocross on them yet. Andy Hollis, Terry Fair, and some others have written a lot about the Rival & ZII.

SK330ci 05-01-2013 01:01 AM

OP, are you aloud to run any tire you want in the class you'll be Autocrossing in, like a DOT-R compound ? Or do you need to stay with an actual street tire.

If I had to choose a street tire, I second the Hankook RS-3 suggestion.

If money were no object and you could run a DOT-R spec tire, the absolute best bet would be the Hoosier A6.
Your second choice, and considerably cheaper would be the Hankook Ventus Z214.

Kubica 05-02-2013 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SK330ci (Post 15387488)
OP, are you aloud to run any tire you want in the class you'll be Autocrossing in, like a DOT-R compound ? Or do you need to stay with an actual street tire.

If I had to choose a street tire, I second the Hankook RS-3 suggestion.

If money were no object and you could run a DOT-R spec tire, the absolute best bet would be the Hoosier A6.
Your second choice, and considerably cheaper would be the Hankook Ventus Z214.

Treadwear needs to be above 140 to be considered street tires. I don't have enough power/too much weight to compete in the R-comp class. Price is not really the issue. Brand and size are more important.

Right now I'm running -3 degrees camber up front and 235 tires. If I go up to a 245, I'd have to drop down to -2.5 degrees camber. If I go with a 225, I can run -3.5 degrees camber.

Bimmerguy91 05-02-2013 06:14 PM

I am a huge fan of the RE-11. I had them on my Genesis Coupe and loved them. I plan to put the new RE-11A's on my Z4MC when I am done wearing out these Continental Extreme Contact DW (crap tires I hate them)

lejeunebimmer 05-02-2013 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmerguy91 (Post 15392612)
I am a huge fan of the RE-11. I had them on my Genesis Coupe and loved them. I plan to put the new RE-11A's on my Z4MC when I am done wearing out these Continental Extreme Contact DW (crap tires I hate them)

You're the only person I've ever heard say that about those Conti's. Do you use them just for street driving, just Autox, or both? Because I absolutely love them for the street, but I will agree 110% about them being crap on dry Autox/track. Wet they do pretty darn well though...

Bimmerguy91 05-02-2013 07:52 PM

Just street use mostly. I just think they are noisy and that the grip is not on par with what I am used to. I know these tires aren't even in the same category as the above mentioned tires but still.

shell_guy 05-03-2013 09:57 AM

AD08 hands down if your allowed to run them, if not i would go RE11a. I am running original RE11's and I really like them.

Kubica 05-03-2013 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shell_guy (Post 15394132)
AD08 hands down if your allowed to run them, if not i would go RE11a. I am running original RE11's and I really like them.

What do you like about the AD08 vs. another choice?

shell_guy 05-03-2013 12:40 PM

AD08's are the closest thing to a r-comp tire you can get in a street tire. The turn in is fantasic, i find they are really stable and a lot more perdictable on the track. As a street tire they are a bit noisy and wear quickly, but on the track they are fantastic.

dreamdrivedrift 05-03-2013 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shell_guy (Post 15394132)
AD08 hands down if your allowed to run them, if not i would go RE11a. I am running original RE11's and I really like them.

you serious here? ZII, Z1 Star Spec, and Rival > AD08. AD08s are overpriced and do not perform as well as the other ones I mentioned. All the fastest guys at Nationals on street tires are running what I listed

shell_guy 05-03-2013 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamdrivedrift (Post 15394776)
you serious here? ZII, Z1 Star Spec, and Rival > AD08. AD08s are overpriced and do not perform as well as the other ones I mentioned. All the fastest guys at Nationals on street tires are running what I listed

I did not like the Dunlop z1 when I tried them, found the initial turn in was not as good as my ad08. However the new Rival looks good and I would like to try them. I just wish I knew more people who have tried the Rival on their own cars.

SK330ci 05-04-2013 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubica (Post 15372887)
I have a 8" wide 17" wheel or a 8.5" wide 18" wheel.

A 235/35/18 would be nice but not available. I am leaning toward a 235/40/17.

Interesting question- what's faster on a torque-limited car: 235/40/17 at 24.4" tall or 245/40/17 at 24.7" tall......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubica (Post 15391965)
Treadwear needs to be above 140 to be considered street tires. I don't have enough power/too much weight to compete in the R-comp class. Price is not really the issue. Brand and size are more important.

Right now I'm running -3 degrees camber up front and 235 tires. If I go up to a 245, I'd have to drop down to -2.5 degrees camber. If I go with a 225, I can run -3.5 degrees camber.


I've given this a lot of thought. I think after researching this, your answer is your 235/40-17. From a weight, gearing & Neg. camber stand point it's a winner over your other size choices. Brand consideration, well that could still go way few different ways; my choice is still the Hankook RS-3.

dreamdrivedrift 05-05-2013 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shell_guy (Post 15395118)
I did not like the Dunlop z1 when I tried them, found the initial turn in was not as good as my ad08. However the new Rival looks good and I would like to try them. I just wish I knew more people who have tried the Rival on their own cars.

i see, that surprises me as turn-in from both my Z1SS and ZII have been very sharp. Much more so than RS3s. I agree about the Rival...the reason I chose the Z2 is because the Rival's treads do not look like they will be happy in the rain. It looks more like a dry-only tire.

Go for the 17s with the 235s. Why do you have to reduce camber if you run a wider tire? Should be the other way around...run more camber with a wide tire

murph1379 05-07-2013 06:52 PM

Autocross Tires for 2013
 
Ran on the rivals this weekend, LOVED them. :)


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

dreamdrivedrift 05-08-2013 09:21 AM

GRM just released their tire testing article between the ZII and the Rival, with the Toyo R1R as a benchmark. Summary of it is that the Rival is a BOSS! Great tire at all psi, handles heat well, and they are tolerant of large slip angles. The ZII seems to be a more finicky tire that is more setup and heat dependent.

Now I kind of wish I got the Rivals, but nonetheless I can't wait to run my ZIIs in June


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