10-19-2012, 09:38 AM
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC
My Ride: '04 LSB 6spd M3
Haha, pretty much!
Because it was forged in the fires of Mordor?
Great input as usual SP . I like to try and refrain from using the term 'better' but since someone else started it, I figured lets go there. I feel as though we haven't even come close to seeing the full potential of the S54, it's not particularly fair to match it mone e mono with the 2jz considering how much longer that motor has been out and has been under R&D. I find it amazing that a stock S54 can make nearly 700 rwhp at 15 psi on a 67mm turbo at just 3.2 liters (HPF)...coming from making ~280rwhp in stock form...that shows you just how well the motor flows. I've seen LS motors do better on less boost but they're considerable larger in displacement and that's a little expected. 2JZ is definitely near the top as a powerplant for drag or highway pulls, but as of now, anywhere from 400-800 rwhp I'd say the S54 is just as capable and might even have a larger (more useable) power band thanks to vanos and the head design.
Good question. I'd say that the 2J has a superior botton end, it can handle 1000 hp / 800 tq in stock form. Once built the sky is the limit.... over 2000HP has been made numerous times!
The BMW has a better head for sure, it simply flows a ton more than the 2J! The BMW will make a lot more HP at less boost than a 2J due to the head. As a side not, the 2J is available with a variable cam setup but it was only in Japan. Some of those heads have made their way over here but not many. Expect a big increase in torque with those!
The BMW motor was designed as a naturally aspirated motor, 2J as a forced induction motor. Head flow is very important in a NA application while strength is important in a forced induction application. Boost can overcome a poor flowing head somewhat!
So what does all of this mean.... I would suspect that with a similar style header on the BMW that it would make more HP than a 2J. Power is ALWAYS in the head while strength is in the bottom end. Can the BMW bottom end handle 1500-2000 HP?? No one knows yet.
As far as the drivetrain and chassis goes the 2J in stock form is about the strongest in a mass produced car that I have ever seen. The rear end, half shafts, transmission and chassis can take the abuse of 1000-1500 hp without a problem while the BMW ...... well..... it certainly needs a ton of help. To hear of so many BMW guys even in NA form tearing up the subframes is a bit disappointing.
FYI, I know a few engineers at Toyota and in Japan when they want to test out a new motor design now , they throw it in a supra chassis and beat the hell out of it on their testing track. They state that it is simply the strongest chassis that they have ever built! All of this in a car that was first on the drawing boards in the late 80s!
94 VR R2 Rx7
The weekend warrior/ track duty
02 AW M3
The daily / looking for FI
14 CW 1.8T Beetle
- Wife's dream car
02 4.6is X5
- The Work Horse
04 LSB M3