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Old 11-13-2012, 06:31 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by widebody350 View Post
I am sure they can, as they have done a lot of quality builds for Supra customers, however that also carries a heavy price tag. I was trying they had a kit out that would compare to HPF's kits, which apparently they do not. Thank you.

I know that SP builds quality stuff at very reasonable and fair prices for the Supra guys, so I was hoping they had a kit out for the M3s now. Right now HPF owns the market for turbo E46s and prices their kits accordingly. I would love an alternative to HPF and for competition to bring the best products at the best prices to the customers.

FYI, not trying to start or continue an argument between SP and HPF builds/kits that seems to be brewing.
There's no argument between the two.

The difference between SP and HPF is not going to be price, its going to be end product. One is a 'kit' the other is 'custom' .. both will likely yield similar costs. Custom general equates to more labor and a one off result, which some like. HPF instead invested in significant manufacturing costs, having most of their products cad designed, and cast, or machined. End result is an OEM looking car, some prefer this, even if it means there may be 100 others like it.

I can tell you this.. HPF's kit isn't expensive to be expensive.. its expensive because the cost to produce it and design/r&d it was high.

I may not be a huge fan of Chris B, and HPF and I may have had our differences but there is absolutely no denying that they may have been the first to truly SET THE BAR as far as kit quality and design goes... the cost alone for that intake manifold was likely tens of thousands to go from a cad drawing to a cast piece. When they priced their kit they likely took into consideration how many kits it would take to break even on R&D/Manufacturing and how many kits over all they felt they'd sell. They then priced their kits around that.

If I had to guess I'd say they've sold anywhere from 125 to 150 kits.. if I had to guess the development costs and initial manufacturing costs (including payroll for those DOING the work) was probably well over $300k. Then you take into account the cost of manufacturing each piece (after the casting/r&d/etc) and you're probably looking at a cost of $5k-$7k for like a stage 1. Now lets do the math.. they've sold 150 stage 1's lets say (i'm going to ignore engine building, stage 2's, etc, etc..) then they'd have made $2.25m (subtract costs and its like 1.1m).. over the last 5+ years they've been selling the kits. Divide that by 5 and you're looking at only $220k/yr.. toss in all the marketing costs, blown motors, warranty work, continued payroll for those still installing, and updating the kit and the significantly oversized 15ksqft shop and suddenly Chris B isn't sitting on a uncle scrooge style pile of cash like most think. You also need to be aware that the AA's and ESS's of the world sell kits with significantly less hard parts, and use the stock DME which means less costs per kit sold.. but likely just as high of R&D costs.

Rustles my jimmies when people think that some magical $7k E46 m3 turbo kit is 'just around the corner' due to competition.. it isn't.

Last edited by MarcusLSB; 11-13-2012 at 06:31 PM.
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