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Old 12-10-2012, 06:17 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
Here is the issue. We have religious TRADITIONS in this country that are getting swept under the rug by secularists.
There's a difference between "swept under the rug" and "swept out of public spaces that need to be kept religion-free to the greatest extent possible".

No one is stating that churches, houses, synagogues, mosques, pagan fertility circles, American Indian shamans, etc aren't able to have whatever holiday displays they want.

Private businesses can embrace or distance themselves as they wish, based on company culture and what they feel they need to do for their customers and communities.

But my city hall, my court house, my police station and my tax dollars will not be used to promote religion.

Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
I think it largely has to do with the educational system in this country and the fact that MOST textbooks twist the presentation of history to reflect this notion of a "separation of church and state" as a clearly defined founding principle... that simply ISN'T the case. Our nation was founded by Christian men who integrated religious practices into much of the tenants of law and legal practices... don't forget we had federally recognized state religions, prayers were said prior to congressional sessions, etc... In god we trust isn't just a line that somehow found itself on our currency.. Sure it wasn't there from the beginning of common law in this land.. but it's a result of the religious freedoms that were instituted by our founding fathers.
The people that founded this country weren't wise enough to extend freedoms to all people. Women were 2nd class citizens not worthy of voting. American Indians were heathen savages that needed to be converted and/or driven from their lands. Blacks weren't even humans. If you weren't a white, land-owning, Protestant white adult male, they weren't building the country for you. Think they had Biblical justifications for all these points of view? Damn right they did.

What they WERE wise enough to realize was that they had a choice to make. They could institutionalize Protestantism into the US govt and make the oppressed into the oppressor, or they could create a US govt where no religion was institutionalized, so that all religious views would be safe as long as the country stood by that principle.

Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
Now that we have established that religion WAS accepted by our founding fathers and early politicians, let's look at the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s... Christmas became a national event. Everywhere you went, christmas trees lined stores, merry christmas became a common saying from storekeepers, etc... It was a great way for the NATION to come together regardless of religion. Everyone acted just a little happier and looked out for one another just a bit more. Groups like Salvation Army would have their workers dressed as santa asking for donations to further aid to those who needed it.

And now today? My mother can't have a crucifix, tree, or santa on her desk out of fear that a student might complain that he feels discriminated against. Somehow merry christmas is offensive to those who don't believe in Christianity.. Ironically, jewish public schools teachers get away with menorah's in their classroom as that is somehow less offensive.. or is it really just that people don't feel the ability to openly attack Jews as they are a smaller chunk?

This is an attack on Christianity regardless of what Stewart or other pundits would have you believe. The goal is to remove religion from the public eye.. unless of course you're of a faith OTHER than Christian in which you're protected by this notion of "freedom of religion"...

The "attack on christianity" doesn't bug me.. but what does is this notion that the minority groups (whether it's muslims, blacks, jews, whatever) can get away with just about any negativity towards the majorities (whites, catholics, etc) and the majority groups are just supposed to sit back and take it (affirmative action for example).
I am a pretty devout Atheist, and I love Christmas and smile when people wish me a Merry Christmas, or Happy Holidays or Happy Kwanzaa. Hell, if someone wished me a Happy Hanukkah, I'd be too.

Christianity doesn't have the monopoly on good cheer, being thankful for making it through another year, the winter solstice, being nicer to each other because the winter weather means we're all stuck indoors with each other for more hours a day, the excitement of the coming year, showing gratitude and love to each other with special meals/time together/gift giving, etc. So I have no problem with exuberant Christmas celebrations. The religious aspects of it are simply as meaningless to me as they've always been to the billions of people that have lived on this Earth that held winter celebrations for the zillions of reasons that have nothing to do with the alleged birth of one religion's key figure.

However, I am a pretty devout Atheist and I'm fortunate and proud to live in a country whose govt IS secular, will NOT show preferential treatment to any religion, and will not devote resources to endorsing any religion.
We will not tolerate intolerance.
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