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Old 01-16-2013, 02:32 PM   #52
casino is no lie
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Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
First of all, how do you know that gun-free-zones are "less prone to negative consequences resulting from impulsive occurrences"? Have you considered that an armed authority figure nearby may result in even fewer impulsive occurrences of all types?
To be impulsive is to act without forethought. If you are not regularly armed then you do not have access to immediate use. When you couple that with research that shows violent acts committed with your hands are viewed by the assailant as more intimate and thus require greater commitment vs. guns that provide greater distance both in proximity and emotion from the actual act, you are less likely to have an incident.

You might argue, "well what if they have a gun in their car.... they could just as easily grab that and come back?". That's a great question. However, the time that it takes for an individual to remove themselves from the situation, walk to their car and return is time allowed to evaluate their actions removes the impulsiveness from their decision.

That's how I know.

Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
Current levels of negative consequences - fewer mass shootings by people looking for soft targets - fewer non-gun fights, bullying and other negative consequences of impulsive occurrences + more gun fights as a result of more guns being present = a net gain or net loss in violence?
How articulate.

Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
Second of all, a gun-free-zone is only effective at lessening gun violence if it's kept that way. Some jackass shows up and in an instant turns it into a gun-free-except-for-the-psychopath-zone and THAT'S when the problem occurs. So unless you have a way to make gun-free-zones absolutely impervious, serious consideration has to be given to the idea that creating a gun-free-zone = creating a tantalizing target for gun wielding psychos.
I already spoke to that. Feel free to re-read what I wrote.

Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
No, it doesn't negate it. A car alarm gives true benefit by dissuading at least some would-be thieves, even if it won't stop the most dedicated, skilled or completely crazy car thief.

Yes, some nut jobs are tactically rational enough (and dedicated enough to that specific target) to shoot the teacher or on-campus cop first. But for every 1 of those shooters, there may be 10 that think "gee, I wanna shoot some mofos today, wonder where I should go maybe my old school, oh, no wait, Mr Smithers has a gun in his desk, I don't want to get shot back at, so I'll go to the movie theater where no one will be armed because it's a gun-free-zone".

Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
In addition, you may be correct that the gun in Mrs Brown's desk won't save her or the kids in her class because NutJob is going to pop her first. But if every other teacher has a gun in their desk, after they hear the first shots, the shooter will have a MUCH harder time going room to room. Instead of slaughtering unarmed people whose only available course of action is hide and hope, he might be stopped much earlier.

You must recognize how much worse the shooters tactical situation becomes in the case where he'll face armed people instead of unarmed people, right?
It's an erroneous assumption to think that:
  1. All teachers will be armed
  2. All teachers are adequately trained
  3. All teachers will want to pull the trigger in that situation

Furthermore, in your scenario the person is a "nutjob". I seriously doubt they'll care if others are armed. Additionally, a single class room where you would only need to remove one obstacle is going to leave a shooter plenty of victims to make their point. The safeguards you cited prevent nothing. You're not going to find an overwhelming majority of parents who are willing going to have their children sit across from a teacher with a .45 in their desk.

Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
You accuse others of using flawed logic, but you're reaching conclusions without any actual information, you're just deciding what you think would be the outcome. Your position isn't any stronger than those that would have .50 cals at every doorway. Just because it makes sense to you doesn't mean it's right.
My position is rooted in reality and pragmatism.
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