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Old 04-09-2013, 12:43 PM   #8
2000_328CI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rapier7 View Post
If your primary arguments is to exclude immigrants from this country because they leech off welfare, why not strip blacks of their citizenship and legal status? Or just deport anybody, black, white, Asian, or Hispanic on welfare?

If caught "abusing" the system, I'd be all for it. We know that won't happen but sure I'd support removing those that have no interest in caring for themselves

The alternative is to instead reform public services so that people who are unproductive can't abuse them. I'm perfectly okay with gutting welfare.

We agree

You're advocating a government solution to solve a problem the government created in the first place. Somehow I don't think that's gonna work out. The real answer is to fix the problem where it is. Not to slap on additional restrictions and regulations to counterbalance bad restrictions and regulations elsewhere.

We agree here as well. The problem is that certain individuals in power have expressed they have zero interest in fixing the real problem... welfare policies.

Net illegal immigration has dropped to zero and may have even become negative. The fact is illegal immigration is highest when the economy is booming. That means people are looking for work.

True. Which is why I harped on second and third generation workers. THAT is the real problem as those individuals are, when born here, legal citizens. If people come here to work hard, fantastic... if they then have children that abuse our generosity, fawk that

Wouldn't it make more sense to have a streamlined, efficient, and quick process for integrating new workers into the economy instead of letting them illegally traverse the borders to find work at sub-par wages?

For sure. And I'm all for it.. but that isn't what's being proposed. Instead, we're looking to make people citizens.. largely to "buy votes" for a certain party.

If every seasonal or temporary worker could come here legally, do you think they would rely on coyotes to move them across the border? That frees up border patrol to actually focus on people who have other reasons for evading legal authorities (drugs, terrorists, etc).

This is possibility and nothing more.. who knows what that process would look like and if it would still be advantageous for whatever reason to just sneak past them...

Ultimately, I believe immigrants came here to make a better life for themselves and their families. And that the vast majority choose to do so through an honest living. That makes us stronger, not weaker. And if they happen to have higher poverty and dependency rates than natural born Americans (the vast majority of whom are white), then that's okay, because eventually they'll integrate and establish themselves here.

Immigrants DO come here to make a better life for themselves. We have a better infrastructure, more jobs, higher paying jobs (even when they are under the table), and more overall opportunity. But we also have a welfare system that, in and over itself, can provide a better life than that which they live south of the border.. and that is the fundamental problem. When people are in a situation where they can sneak across the border, pop out a kid, and ensure that kid has a better quality of life doing NOTHING, that's a problem... unless we can control admission (which we can't and it has expressed we have given up on the idea of doing so).

Dependency doesn't just mature.. people don't grow out of it. And that is the issue with the welfare trap... people born into this lifestyle in the inner cities have a far lower chance of making something of themselves... so when you bring in Latino A and he goes out to work hard, as soon as his wife pops out Latino B, that individual is now entitled to a life far better (if not, at least equal) to that his parents worked so hard to provide... and that WON'T foster a growth from dependency. It encourages continued dependency because they don't know anything else.

A kid who grows up in a nice household, sees the luxuries of the world, and fails in business.. he will be inspired to make a better tomorrow through hard work. An individual who grows up and only sees mediocrity will have very little impetus to rise from that... especially when common practice dictates that he and his impoverished friends simply badmouth hard working americans who "work for the man" for their wealth. We have to go back to appreciating, appluading, and supporting those that make the country go around.. not badmouth them for "exploiting people".
Just my two cents my friend. As I've always said, I respect your position and know we won't agree on this one.. I just want to play devil's advocate cause I can actually discuss this with you like two mature people
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