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USA-Spec PA12-BMW beats Dice Silverline

141K views 383 replies 90 participants last post by  steve.325i 
#1 · (Edited)
I had a Dice Silverline installed for eight months. I worked through many of the issues others on this form have experienced until one day it just wouldn't connect to the head unit anymore.
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I gave up!!! :banghead:

Four months ago I bought the USA-Spec PA12-BMW and I am extremely happy with its performance, features, & reliability.
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I'm a newbie to youtube so ridicule me if you want, but I have posted a two part demo of the USA-Spec operation in my 2003 325i.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D_a9G8Mac0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_7S-qKS0o
 
#266 ·
Now wait... from my understanding non of these products charge the ipod while playing? :facepalm:

I hope im wrong.


One other thing, any way to hook this up to the spec.dock?
 
#267 ·
Now wait... from my understanding non of these products charge the ipod while playing? :facepalm:

I hope im wrong.
Yes, the iPod is charged by this interface.

A year and a half ago (or so) apple switched to 5v0 charging, so if you have an old USA-Spec (or other interface) with a new iPod, there can be an issue.


One other thing, any way to hook this up to the spec.dock?
Yes, but you would have to build a custom cable to convert the spec dock connector to the USA-Spec.
 
#268 ·
Sold my DICE Silverline Pro yesterday. It was great (when it worked).
Main issues:
- stupid tic tic tic tic noise ALL THE TIME. even when in radio or cd mode!
- would go completely dead after long car trips, requiring battery reset
- next/prev on steering wheel & cd deck stopped responding after long car trips, requiring battery reset

Ordered a USA-Spec PA12. Hopefully my iPhone 4 on iOS 4.3 will like it. :)
Couple things to note:
I don't care for playlist or artist mode. I just want to select a playlist on my phone, and be able to use next/prev on my steering wheel.
I don't care for text mode. I actually like it better when it displays the time. That's possible, right?
 
#269 ·
Ordered a USA-Spec PA12. Hopefully my iPhone 4 on iOS 4.3 will like it. :)
Couple things to note:
I don't care for playlist or artist mode. I just want to select a playlist on my phone, and be able to use next/prev on my steering wheel.
I don't care for text mode. I actually like it better when it displays the time. That's possible, right?
It is able to display the clock. There is a dip switch setting to tell it not to display song text (shows the clock instead). I would have liked to toggle it with buttons on the hu, since I like to see the title or artist if some songs, but I like to see the clock 99.9% of the time, so it really isn't an issue.
 
#279 ·
No. The only thing you would be able to do is arrange your playlists by artist prior to sync. Doesn't sound like the USA-Spec will do what you want.

anyone with a pdf or printable intruction for intallation?
I recommend following the dice trunk install posted by bavsound. It's exactly the same connections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgnWA0vdfyk

I also recommend leaving the complete install in the trunk. That assumes that you have a dedicated iPod for your car.
 
#281 · (Edited)
I have heard that ALL North American cars are pre-wired for a CD changer in the trunk. I did not have a CD changer, but I was able to locate the wiring harness.

The third bavsound video shows the wiring bundle. If you don't have an in the trunk (I don't) the wiring bundle is stuck up over the rear wheel well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2MZNZoS0mQ&NR=1


That said, if you are not pre-wired, we are only talking about six connecions to the HU. I can point you to the details if it comes down to this.
 
#284 ·
So I'm glad that everyone is enjoying their unit. I just got mine installed yesterday, and unfortunately I'm having trouble. I'm trying to connect my iPhone 3GS to it and it connects (it shows the "Accessory Connected" screen), but then the radio says "No Disc." The guy that installed it used his iPod Classic and that worked, and then we tried a guy's iPhone 4 and that worked. I've done a little bit of Google-ing and haven't really found anything helpful. Any ideas or suggestions?
 
#285 ·
I am not an iPhone guy so I have no direct experience.

It is supposed to work though:

http://www.usaspec.com/page.php?PageID=6

Do your kits with the iPhone?
Yes, all our models with the new and older iPhones, including the new 3G iPhone.
They also correctly charge all the new 3G iPhones.

Could it be your iPhone firmware?? Does you iPhone work in a speaker dock or anything else?

USA-Spec has a tech email address: techsupport@usaspec.com
 
#286 ·
Okay,....okay, I'm done! I have had it DICE, was in denial of the benefits of the USA-spec but couldn't take it anymore. Would have loved the Dynavin, but it's too damn expensive and my car is getting old as it is. So, in comes the USA-Spec,....and we enjoy music once more!
 
#290 ·
Dice static

Steve.325i, great insight to all the problems with DICE. I too have had some issues with DICE and GROM. I tried using GROM last year, but the same type of glitches came up using the USB port. I grew tired of having to reset the unit. Two weeks ago, I read the DICE advertisements and thought they must have this fixed so it is seamless. Was I surprised. The install went well. However, I was stunned by the static I got with the unit immediately following the install. I traded emails with the company I bought it from. They figured it was a bad unit. Connected me with DICE, who suggested changing the output settings. No change. They suggested, hard reboot of IPOD and hard reset of the car. I too laughed about the recommendation to touch the battery cables together. So did my BMW service dealer. My thinking is DICE and GROM need to post some better warnings about the software hiccups and static that some users experience. Not everyone seems to have a problem. But what's wrong with a mild warning so they don't have as many frustrated users. I plan to return my DICE unit that I just got last week. The company I bought it from has been terrific and makes great speaker upgrades. My car never sounded so good since I replaced my factory speakers. If only the DICE unit didn't have the static coming with it. They do have the playlists working well, but the static is just bad. Listen to my video link below (sorry, didn't have the flash on). There is static coming from hard rock to Jazz. Before the track switches, during the track switch and while you are listening to the new track. Forget about trying to listen to Jazz, the buzz, clicks and whine is overriding the music. I assume this isn't happening to everyone that buys the DICE unit. But when it does, they act surprised that you are having an issue. Again, the company I bought it from has been great. Traded emails on a Sunday to work on returning the product. They were straight with me. Sometimes, the unit does not work as expected. They are fixing this by my returning it. Too bad I am out the the time and postage to return it. One question: I am planning to try to keep the ashtray IPOD doc and try it with USA SPEC unit. I like the factory look on this. Have you had any experience with this one? Assume the IPOD 12 pin cable is the same on all the units. Thanks again for the great posts. I spent a few hours reading everything. Tom at EAS does a good job too. But everyone that sells these units should be up front with the buyers that they may not work in all the cars. What's the harm with that?

http://youtu.be/9CF5fM1oroU
 
#291 · (Edited)
Hi fios, sorry to hear you are having issue. I agree with everything you have said. They just wont admit that there is a problem.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
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It sounds like you purchased your Dice from bavsound. I did as well & I agree, they are great guys. I contemplated their speaker upgrade as well, but its a little pricey.<o:p></o:p>
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PLAN A - I first tried swapping my rears with a set of alpines but I was still lacking bass.<o:p></o:p>
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PLAN B - Then I swapped all four to a full set of energy speakers. The doors were a PIA !!! I made new brackets and had to cut into the doors for allow for the increased speaker depth. Much more work than I planned.<o:p></o:p>
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PLAN C would have been to add a sub, but the energy speakers delivered. I still crave a little more bass @ low volumes. I think the Alpine CD53 is in dire need of a loudness button. I have simply learned to listen to it a bit louder ;)<o:p></o:p>
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Ok, to actually get to your question ***8230; or actually, your assumption:<o:p></o:p>
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"Assume the IPOD 12 pin cable is the same on all the units."<o:p></o:p>
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The answer is NO!!! The 12 pin on the Dice box is the CAR connection and the 8pin mini-DIN (round) is the iPod connection.<o:p></o:p>
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I have never seen a Spec-dock in person so I can not be sure, but I expect that it plugs into the 8pin DIN of the Dice, no?<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p>I have completely focused on the car interface. I have not mapped out the Dice-to-iPod interface or the USA-Spec-to-iPod interface. I'm sure it can be done ... just haven't had a need to do it.</o:p>
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<o:p>Just an fyi, here is the 12pin Dice to 8pin DIN USA-Spec pin mapping for the CAR connection.</o:p>

 
#381 · (Edited)
<o:p>I have completely focused on the car interface. I have not mapped out the Dice-to-iPod interface or the USA-Spec-to-iPod interface. I'm sure it can be done ... just haven't had a need to do it.</o:p>
I realise this is an old thread, but the information steve.325i posted was very useful and I wanted to add to it by contributing the information I discovered about the Dice-to-iPod cable.

I arbitrarily numbered the facing DIN plug (male) pins:
Code:
1   2   3
4   5   6
  7   8
The iPod 30 pin connector is numbered according to this pinout map (not the Apple pin ordering):
<table border="1">
<tr><th>Pin</th><th>Name</th><th>Far end DIN connection</th><th>Note</th></tr><tr><td>1</td><td>Gnd</td><td></td><td>549k -ve</td></tr><tr><td>2</td><td>Audio Gnd</td><td>Shield Pin 2</td><td>Combine shields from blue and white wires</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>Audio Right</td><td>Shielded blue wire Pin 1</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>Audio Left</td><td>Shielded white wire Pin 3</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>11</td><td>Accessory Detect</td><td></td><td>Short to iPod pin 15</td></tr><tr><td>12</td><td>Serial TX</td><td>Yellow wire Pin 7</td><td>iPod transmit</td></tr><tr><td>13</td><td>Serial RX</td><td>Green wire Pin 8</td><td>iPod receive</td></tr><tr><td>15</td><td>Gnd</td><td></td><td>Short to iPod pin 11</td></tr><tr><td>19</td><td>12V</td><td></td><td>Short to iPod pin 20</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>12V</td><td>Red wire Pin 4</td><td>Short to iPod pin 19</td></tr><tr><td>21</td><td>Accessory Id</td><td></td><td>549k +ve</td><tr><td>29</td><td>Gnd</td><td></td><td>Short to iPod pin 30</td></tr><tr><td>30</td><td>Gnd</td><td>Black wire Pin 6</td><td>Short to iPod pin 29</td></tr>
</table>

Interesting things to note:
  • The 549k resistor to enable the iPod serial UART is embedded in the iPod end of the cable
  • The cable I disassembled is an older version that supports 12V charging

Molex connector part numbers:
  • To mate with connector on adapter cable : 43020-1201 plug (without ears) with 43031-0002 male terminals
  • To mate with connector on Dice : 43025-1208 socket with 43030-0001 female terminals
 
#292 ·
Steve, thanks for responding. The speakers from Bav really sound great. It was on the high side, but the sound really is something. I compared it to another car recently and the owner was surprised too. As for my current issue, I pulled out the DICE and packed it up tonight to return. It is disappointing since I really did hear some noise interference, but the device was acting up too. You really need to give the DICE unit a head start with most commands you send it. Both issues made me feel it wasn't going to work in my car. So your response above isn't needed because I also returned the ashtray doc along with the DICE unit. Bav really did a nice job with the doc unit. Very tailored. I was not planning to leave the IPOD in the car, but when I heard about the "start at the beginning" issue, I quickly determined it wasn't what I wanted in addition to the static. I have a new question for you if you will indulge me. Why do you think the DICE unit works flawlessly in some cars, but fails in others? I believe on other models it may not be an issue or other people put up with it. However, I also noticed on this string, some users of the USA-SPEC unit report static and feedback. You just do see quiet as many posts. Do you think this is unique? Thanks again.
 
#294 ·
Comanche5, I re-read your post. Can you take a quick picture of your fix and post it? Just so I am clear... you pulled apart the pre-installed 6 pin connector on the BMW. Ran a wire from one pin to the next? Did you solder it in place? Once you ran the jump wire, you plugged the 6 pin connector back into the supply cable that run to the DICE or USA-SPEC unit? Thanks.
 
#295 ·
I wish I had taken a photo for everyone on here. But its very straight forward. To clarify, yes, pull apart the 6 pin connector on the BMW. With the sleeve off the connector, you should be able to read the pin assignment numbers on the 6 pin connector.

|-|
3 2 1
6 5 4

Pin 1 and 4 are the left and right stereo channels
Pin 2 is the stereo ground (brown striped wire)

By connecting Pin 2 to Pin 3 you are connecting the stereo ground to the common ground. This appears to clear the audio of unwanted noise.


Run a small piece of wire from the back of Pin 2 to Pin 3. Jam the wire securely in place... there is no access to solder. Reconnect the cables and test (you may want to leave the sleeve off while testing to make it easier to connect and disconnect the cable. I actually placed the wire while the stereo was on so I could verify that the connection was made. You can hear an audible pop when the wire making the connection. Positioning the wire correctly can take a number of attempts. Its been a month and I haven't had an issue since. I hope this works out for you. Keep us posted.
 
#297 ·
I haven't ordered a SPEC-USA interface yet. I wanted to try my old Grom unit with the ground fix for pins 2-3. No luck. There is nothing to connect the 3 pin to the cable on the other side. What would you think about grounding the 2 pin? Also, what's really odd is that if I use the Grom unit's aux port and plug in an IPOD or MP3 player, I get to static. etc. Steve, just so I am clear... You say the USA-SPEC makers have figured this out and ground both sides on the trunk cable, so I would not get interference? Thanks all.
 
#298 · (Edited)
Yes, make a chassis ground connection at this point to see if it helps. If it doesn't, then I believe you have a pour ground connection from the 12 pin connector to the circuit board inside the interface box.

The USA-Spec still keeps the audio ground and the digital ground seperate at the trunk connection point, but the digital grounds in both the 3pin and 6pin cables are merged at that point.

ALSO, and this is a hugh plus, the USA-Spec is a four layer circuit board with a dedicated power and ground plane. PLUS it is a single circuit board design.

Brand D has two seperate circuit boards that are only two layers each (refer to pic in post # 291). This means that there are no dedicated layers for power & ground & they need to be routed like all the other signals. Low frequency digital circuits can get away with this but it's not good for audio noise supression.
 
#299 ·
Update: Steve, you were spot on. I ordered and installed SPEC-USA PA12BMW kit. It works. No static, clicks, hum, etc. This unit clearly is grounded and handles the pre-wired trunk wires flawlessly. Keep in mind, I too tried the DICE and GROM units. Both did not work. The DICE unit was slow to recognize the command from the head unit and the static was present all the time. Finally, I have a solution. Having said this, I do think a handful of BMW's may have a unique issue that ends up creating the ground static you hear when trying to play music on the IPOD. Or, as you suggest, the other units don't handle ground properly. Regardless, the SPEC unit works. The sound doesn't sound as deep and crisp as the GROM unit, but that may be the settings on the IPOD or my factory head unit. I have some additional set up to run through. It's just sitting in my truck currently and I may leave it there.

As for sound quality, it is unfair to compare the SPEC unit to the DICE unit, since I never got past the static and clicks as I switched to each track and the constant hum when I played a song. You really noticed it during quiet jazz music. I do think it may be unique for us since there are so many favorable posts about DICE operating without a hitch. It just wasn't the case for me, and to figure this out was frustrating. I still can't imagine having to click battery cables as a solution. The supplier should focus on the grounding issue and offer solutions to try to ground the unit properly for the few customers that experience this issue as you and others like us reported.

Just an update on the DICE saga. I returned it obviously. I had to ship the unit back to DICE, not where I purchased it. DICE alerts the vendor when the unit arrives and the seller, issues credit. I received credit for the DICE unit, which was shipped by FedEd to CA. Unfortunately, I had to return the great ashtray docking unit to the original store too. Yes, I did like the tailored finish of the docking unit. It looked like it was factory option. It has been over a week now and despite tracking report showing it arrived in GA, I still have not received a credit for returning the item. I expect to sort this out, but it is disappointing. The company has been responding, by reporting it could take a couple of weeks. This seems like an excessive time. All in all. Lesson learned. I wished I came across your post and Delmarco's post earlier. I would have been fine.

Incidentally, I do have the Grom unit and 15 foot IPOD cord for sale....
 
#301 ·
I am subscribed to this thread because at one time I was looking to add both an ipod interface and a handsfree cel phone system to my 2004 330CiC. I have yet to do either, but if I could pull the trigger on the handsfree cel phone set up, I'd almost certainly do this as well. Does anyone in this thread have or know the best system for our cars? Does this system for the ipod also work in conjunction with a system for handsfree phone use?
 
#303 ·
Hey Steve, I know this is an old thread, but I just installed my PA12 and love it so far. Sounds quality is great and the unit is quick. I have a 2001 330ci w/HK and I have to press the "m" between left and right seek buttons to skip 10 tracks. When in random mode, it does not do the fast forward feature you described as earlier. I tried just holding seek too....no luck. Also Iphone 4.0.1 only seems to work in Direct mode. Anyone else have luck with fast forwarding on new PA12s? The user manual doesn't even mention the random function.

-PS nice iron ring in the video, just got mine recently from McMaster :)
 
#304 ·
Hey Steve, I know this is an old thread, but I just installed my PA12 and love it so far. Sounds quality is great and the unit is quick. I have a 2001 330ci w/HK and I have to press the "m" between left and right seek buttons to skip 10 tracks. When in random mode, it does not do the fast forward feature you described as earlier. I tried just holding seek too....no luck. Also Iphone 4.0.1 only seems to work in Direct mode. Anyone else have luck with fast forwarding on new PA12s? The user manual doesn't even mention the random function.

-PS nice iron ring in the video, just got mine recently from McMaster :)
Hi, glad to hear that the install went well & that you like the sound.

You have a combination the I have no direct exposure to - a Business CD HU pre-2003 and a iPhone with os4.

USA-Spec has updated their manual and they explicitly say that they support os4. I don't know where you bought your unit, but from your description of hitting the 'm' key to skip, it sounds like a recent version. They have definitely changed the behaviour of some of the functions. Please see section 3.1.2 of the current manual:

http://usaspec.com/userfiles/editor/file/PA12BMW_MANUAL_20100622.pdf

They also have this note:

Note: By setting DIP # 3 to OFF position, radio button will be back to
single-press operation mode but text display feature will be disabled

It sounds like you either have dip switch 2 or 3 in the off position. The new manual really doesn't cover the function of dip sw 3 that well & doesn't talk about the function of dip sw 4 at all.

Can I ask how you have them set? With 2 through 4 in the on position, playlist mode should work as well.

Another thing you may want to try is an older iPod, but the easiest way to know for sure is to read your firmware version of the sticker on the PA12-BMW and email their tech support and ask them about it. They are pretty quick to answer.

Please post your progress to keep others informed.

Congrads on the ring :woot:I'm an old guy - Ryerson '93 - the second year that they were allowed to hand out degrees. I grew up in Chippawa before going to school in 89. Inlaws are still there. My nephew also just finished his first year of engineering @ Mac. Nice school.
 
#307 ·
#316 · (Edited)
Just ordered mine. Thanks for the informative thread.
:clap: Cool. You will like it!

steve, i connect the usa-spec just like you say, and it work fine... but 2 things that i have to say:

1) the there is a noise in all the music that came from my iphone every few seconds i can hear a noise... no matter which playlist or song is plaing...

2) the thing that don't work is the aux in.... but this is not realy important...
i just want to hear my iphone music without interference.... in my car...

someone say to me that maybe is the "ground" that is causing this noise... but i dont know for sure...


i use to make the connection between the plug that came from the usa-spec to the "A" connector and the 3 pins in the big 17 round pin conector some computer plugs that fit perfect the pins in the "A" connector as well the usa-spec conector for the 3 pins in the big 17 round pin connector i "T-in" just like you say.......

again thanks in advance...
1. Yes, a grounding issue. It seems that some HU's do not ground the Audio GND pins internally. First thing to try is to make an additional connection from the ground from the 17 pin connector (pin15-GND) to the ground pins on the A connector (pins 6 & 7).

2. I have my AUX disabled but you shoudl be able to enable it using the two pin or four pin switch (depending on which version you have) on the side of the USA-Spec module itself. Then you can sellect the AUX using the CD-6 button.
 
#322 ·
Hi Niki,
Yes, the digital switching on the i-bus (or k-bus) wire is coupling to the audio signals.
Yes, shielding of at least the audio signals is absolutely required.

The first level of shielding is acheived simply by twisting the audio + and audio gnd together, known as twisted pair. This can also be done for the i-bus, it can be twisted in a group of three with the +12 and GND.

Real shielding is better.

So I need to ask ... why didn't you just snip the original usa-spec supplied cable & wire that into the HU connectors like we have been discussing? I never imagined that you were not using the original cable. lol
 
#323 · (Edited)
ok, i will find some shield wire to make the connection...

the thing is this i replace my original HU for this: Bmw E46 OEM CD53 Business Cd Player Pulled out 2003 325ci. CD53 Business Cd Player with Mode button. (the original radio was bmw radio reverse that is only tape player)
and my car is not pre wired for CD changer so i have not any wire in the trunk.
the usa-spec connector fit the connector in the trunk (if i had one) but not the connector in the back of the radio.

you follow me till here?

now in my country the wire that connect the HU to the CD changer (the one that i need to connect to the usa-spec) cost to me is 180 american dollars this is to much money... if i buy it from ebay is about 90 american dollars.... so i want to find a cheaper way to make this connection....

right now i am in my office but when i go home later in the night i´ll take some photos of the wires that i am using to make the bridge between the wire of the usa spec and the HU, so you can see... because im not good explaining...

again thanks a lot for your time and help
kiss niki
 
#324 ·
Hi Niki, yup, I follow you. My only error was that I 'assumed' you has the original cable supplied with the usa-spec because of the picture in your port # 308. My fault.

How long are your wires from the HU to the usa-spec? The shorter they are, the less coupling will occur. If you can seperate the i-bus/12v/gnd from the audio-L-R-gnd, that will help as well. Simply twisting the audio ground wire around the two audio lines (L-R) may be sufficient - approx 1 twist per inch is ideal.

I hope this helps. I don't think there is any reason for you to purchase an interface at this point. You have it working, you just have to clean it up a little bit.
 
#325 ·
hello steve, yes i have the original cable that came with the usa-spec the one that you mention (i´ll attach the photos again) that cable is very long, enough to put the usa spec in the trunk and still conect to the HU in the front of the car.... but like i say my car is not pre wired for CD Changer in the trunk...

the cable that i dont have is the CD Changer cable.... so i make the connection between the usa-spec and the HU with some computer wire (i´ll attach a photo for you)

so you say that if the cable is short i´ll be better ?
i can cut the cable that came with the usa spec and make it shorter and if you say that this is the better solution i´ll do that...

by the way sorry for not answer till today, but yesterday i came home so late that i went directly to the bed... it was a complicated day in my office....

i'll wait for your answer before i proceed, because once that i cut the cable there is no turn back...

kiss
niki
 

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