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2M views 18K replies 115 participants last post by  sly1types 
#1 ·
Hello folks! I'm just looking for all the "e46ers" in Kansas.... I feel so left out :bawling:. I cant find anyone else that does these cars around Johnson County! Met a really cool guy awile back and will be meeting him next weekend you can find his thread here: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...664&highlight= . Other than him the only other person I know Has a 325xi with cheap ass wheels and hes a total douche! HE EVEN KEYED MY CAR AND IS TELLING EVERYONE I COPIED HIS "CAR IDEAS" AND MODDED MY CAR WITH HIS IDEAS BEFORE HE DID! :ben: :censor:. So anyway calling all Kansas E46 Fanatics!
 
#14,442 ·
Do you need close to work, close to things to do? That will help determine an area.
 
#14,448 · (Edited)
I'm not a big fan of the F30.



They only come in a really staggered size. so unless you want to run 4 rears, you'll be running 19x8.5 front and 19x10 rear. Offsets are really agressive too. I'm running a lot of rear camber to compensate.

Found em, luckily Andy hasnt gotten any retarded comments on his videos, lol.
Not many atleast. I haven't done a very good job promoting the videos, but the ones on the track aren't very good anyway so whatever.

Brad Needs to figure out how to upload his own stuff. :rofl:
 
#14,449 ·
So I took the M3 out yesterday to see what the new brakes and tires were like. The brakes are insane, very impressive. But it seemed that I had a bit of an issue with stability. The front shocks were set at full soft, and I though maybe that was part of the issue. A Mr. Perkins confirmed my suspicions, so I set the front to mostly stiff, and the rear to just over half stiff.

Went out again. The car was much more stable, and braked even harder since its a little warmer today. :woot:
 
#14,450 ·
I have a feeling you have a lot to do setup wise but youre getting there. I think you still need to adjust you camber and possibly your sways, I can't remember what you had those at.
 
#14,451 · (Edited)
Yeah, I've been thinking about all that. I feel alot better now knowing that my tires and brakes are solid though.

Sways - set in the middle up front, IIRC. and I don't even know what in the rear. I need to install my new rear endlinks so maybe I'll take a look at those then.

Camber - running -2 in the rear all the time, I know that much. I need to get some front plates ordered. I don't think I'm going to go for new springs yet.

Toe - I gotta get some negative toe in for my street setup. The tram lining is really bad...

I want to get some of those quick-fit harnesses ordered. Fan will go in sometime next week. I think I'm also going to skip the Bimmerworld tune, unless my dyno comes out being really off. $600 is alot of money for something that I may not need and can always do later.
 
#14,454 ·
Yeah, I've been thinking about all that. I feel alot better now knowing that my tires and brakes are solid though.

Sways - set in the middle up front, IIRC. and I don't even know what in the rear. I need to install my new rear endlinks so maybe I'll take a look at those then.

I'm not sure what sways you have or how much adjustment they have but you will want the fronts stiffer than the rear as a common rule.

Camber - running -2 in the rear all the time, I know that much. I need to get some front plates ordered. I don't think I'm going to go for new springs yet.

Another general rule for the M3 is that you want to run atleast 1 degree more negative camber up front than in the rear. This doesn't really matter as much for street driving but will make a big difference on the track. So -2 in the rear means you should be around -3 up front. Now there is a point of to much (for the rear), I would never go over -3 in the rear. I plan to run -3.8 front and -2.5 rear and use my pyrometer to adjust it from there. Without a pyrometer the best chance you have at finding the right amount of camber is by the tire wear eye test.

Toe - I gotta get some negative toe in for my street setup. The tram lining is really bad...

I want to get some of those quick-fit harnesses ordered. Fan will go in sometime next week. I think I'm also going to skip the Bimmerworld tune, unless my dyno comes out being really off. $600 is alot of money for something that I may not need and can always do later.

Yeah I would for sure dyno and see where your AFR's are, if they are good then it's not like you "need" the extra power.
So I'm working on finalizing my alignment settings. (I realize I'm over simplifying things)

For the street setup, how much negative toe should I run? I don't want to burn through tires...

Kevin was running -3/16" rear. The Bentley service manual specifies 0°22'... but I have no idea how to relate these two numbers. :rofl:

Come on now you can't translate inches into degrees, minutes, and seconds? I thought you wanted to be an engineer, lol. You should be able to find a conversion tool online that will do it for you.

For the front I figure just align it to 0 toe at 3.5°, so when I pull the camber back out to -2 or -1.5 the toe comes in.

You want toe out front not toe in. What you want to do is align at 0 toe at street camber then it will toe out when you go to -3.5 for the track. I know you want to add toe for tramlining but you either have good street tire wear and tramlining or bad wear and not tramlining. If you have toe at you street camber setting it will more than triple at your track camber setting which will scrub of speed and rubber. As far as overall toe settings I can't remember what I did but Kendal should have both Kevin and my alignment. I set mine at what James recommended.
You're on the right track though, half of it is just knowing what you have so you can make changes from there. Make sure to get a little note pad and put your settings in it. Then make notes of how the car feels and handles. If you make changes, not them, and what changes they made to the car in terms of feel.
 
#14,455 ·
Another general rule for the M3 is that you want to run atleast 1 degree more negative camber up front than in the rear. This doesn't really matter as much for street driving but will make a big difference on the track. So -2 in the rear means you should be around -3 up front. Now there is a point of to much (for the rear), I would never go over -3 in the rear. I plan to run -3.8 front and -2.5 rear and use my pyrometer to adjust it from there. Without a pyrometer the best chance you have at finding the right amount of camber is by the tire wear eye test.



How the heck do you use a pyrometer for suspension changes? Ive only ever seen them used for EGTs...
 
#14,456 ·
How the heck do you use a pyrometer for suspension changes? Ive only ever seen them used for EGTs...
A tire pyrometer, should have mentioned that. You measure the temperature of the tire about 2mm. below the tires surface at the inside edge, middle, and outside outside edge. You then take the average of the outer and inner and if it equals the middle temp then you know that you have the ideal camber setting. If the outside is hotter then you need more camber if the inside is hotter than you need less. Pretty common sense on that latter of that.

A cars handleing is all about the tires, kinda obvious because that's what's contacting the road. Therefore you need to make sure that you have the the whole tire contacting the ground as much as you can. The ideal setup is obviously the average though because some turns may require less camber and some need more. So you set the car up on a best case basis.

So thus a tire pyrometer is almost the most important suspension tool. You can make all the sway bar, shock, tire pressure, etc. changes you want put if you aren't using all the tire then you aren't getting all the performance that you can.

Make sense.
 
#14,452 ·
So I'm working on finalizing my alignment settings. (I realize I'm over simplifying things)

For the street setup, how much negative toe should I run? I don't want to burn through tires...

Kevin was running -3/16" rear. The Bentley service manual specifies 0°22'... but I have no idea how to relate these two numbers. :rofl:

For the front I figure just align it to 0 toe at 3.5°, so when I pull the camber back out to -2 or -1.5 the toe comes in.
 
#14,460 ·
Im bored out of my mind. I've been in the same meeting for two days.
 
#14,466 ·
I just got the diff out, took all of 30 minutes. Can't wait to drive this thing again.
 
#14,469 ·
Yeah, I don't think it will bother me to much since I don't drive it much on the street.

Perk, txt me if you need a hand, im off thur-sat
I've been working on it a little bit here and there and I'll probably have the diff back in today or Friday. I will still have to button everything up though and do a few more things before I can take it for a drive. You're more than welcome to come hang out and help Saturday.
 
#14,473 ·
My diff was just delivered, I can't freaking wait to get this thing in and get the car back on the ground.

I just had a great idea for next winter. My plan is to get a cage built and fully welded in and I want to paint in some obnoxiously bright color. I just got the idea of powdercoating every part I can in a matching color, just cause.
 
#14,479 ·
I spoke with Kevin on the phone and I need to clarify something. If you care about a comfortable ride or tire wear please do not ask me questions. Now if you care about performance then ask me all the questions you want.

With that disclaimer said, first of all I meant I would NEVER recommend toe in in the front. Toe in is appropriate and needed for the rear. Toe in in the front will reduce tramlinning but in all situations, track or street, will increase understeer. Toe in front will increase understeer toe in rear increases oversteer. Increased oversteer in the rear (to a degree) is a good thing because it helps rotate the car.
 
#14,483 · (Edited)
k.

Andy-

You just have to remember...Ricky Bobby (BRAD) is all about absolute speed and nothing else. Hot nasty bad asz speed!

on the other hand I have to drive my car on the street with out it wondering or burning through tires in 3k miles!

Are you doing to do the BMW DE event? Anyone else?
:D


Yeah, I'll be doing the BMW DE at HPT.

OK. I have a question. Will 3/16ths in at -1 make tires last longer than 3/16ths in at -2?
 
#14,480 ·
Andy-

You just have to remember...Ricky Bobby (BRAD) is all about absolute speed and nothing else. Hot nasty bad asz speed!

on the other hand I have to drive my car on the street with out it wondering or burning through tires in 3k miles!

Are you doing to do the BMW DE event? Anyone else?
 
#14,482 ·
Sorry... been out of the loop the past 2 days (had to drive to Kirksville yesterday for work...in the company car :woot: )

After catching up I have 3 questions...


1. So what would the absolute alignment settings on the ///M be? I am getting an alignment ASAP (whenever she is off the stands). Right now I am thinking:
Front: -2.2 Camber 0 Toe
Rear: -1.8 Camber ?? Toe
This is all relative as to making my wheels and tires fit without rubbing :D

2. Car being up on jack stands leads me to ask... Who wants to come lend me a hand on installing headers and new radiator :banghead: ....I got beer?? :D

3. See #2

4. Brad since you are "ahead" of schedule will she be making the meet? Also took apart the radiator last night... the plastic supports are the only thing messed up not the actual fins or radiator itself... but not sure if radiator can be "resealed" after removing plastic supports the way the tabs fold over from factory?? Make sense?
 
#14,484 ·
Sorry... been out of the loop the past 2 days (had to drive to Kirksville yesterday for work...in the company car :woot: )

After catching up I have 3 questions...


1. So what would the absolute alignment settings on the ///M be? I am getting an alignment ASAP (whenever she is off the stands). Right now I am thinking:
Front: -2.2 Camber 0 Toe
Rear: -1.8 Camber ?? Toe
This is all relative as to making my wheels and tires fit without rubbing :D

Depends what you want. Pure track performance, street comfort, good tire wear, or a combination of the three. You just have to understand that a combination of the three sacrifices a bit on each. In your case I would just run whatever camber you need to fit the wheels then run oem toe settings.

2. Car being up on jack stands leads me to ask... Who wants to come lend me a hand on installing headers and new radiator :banghead: ....I got beer?? :D

I would if I was close enough and if I didn't have a ton of work to do myslef.

3. See #2

4. Brad since you are "ahead" of schedule will she be making the meet? Also took apart the radiator last night... the plastic supports are the only thing messed up not the actual fins or radiator itself... but not sure if radiator can be "resealed" after removing plastic supports the way the tabs fold over from factory?? Make sense?

If it doesn't rain and the car is running problem free then yeah I will probably drive it. If it's just the plastic I would imagine it could be sealed but I'm not exactly sure what the psi is running through there.
k.



:D


Yeah, I'll be doing the BMW DE at HPT.

OK. I have a question. Will 3/16ths in at -1 make tires last longer than 3/16ths in at -2?
Not sure, I would assume so.
 
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