E46 Fanatics Forum banner

Stuck Even in Manual

5K views 10 replies 4 participants last post by  EVMadman 
#1 ·
Hi All, I'm new to this forum, so hopefully you all can help me. I'm a pretty handy amateur mechanic, but I'm still an amateur. I have had several E46 convertibles, but me current is 2001 330 ci.

History. This conv top has the pinched wire problem in the hinge by the base. I have fixed this about 3 times, and the top then works fine. I can even peek in and see the latest break at the same spot.

Problem. But the broken wire is not my current problem. Current problem is that I cannot get the top to release manually. Yup, I did all the normal things:
- unscrew the windshield locks
- pressed the button and turned the cover release lock

But, the back of the top by the rear window will not budge. I tried a bit of force but don't want to break it.

I'm thinking that the hydraulic pressure is preventing me from releasing the back and in turn the cover. I even waited to see if the hydraulic pressure would subside (like the book says it's supposed to) but no luck.

Another symptom that I don't understand is that the rear trunk lock is no longer activated. I figure that this is some kind of preventive item when the sensors are in the midst of top open/close.

I was thinking that maybe disconnecting battery might help.

Any thoughts and ideas would be greatly appreciated. CLIF
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I had to go through this yesterday, just keeeeeeep turning. Turn until it gets hard to turn then stop. Then get out of the car and fold the roof by hand. Pull the front latch portion back and then pull the rear portion up. Make sure the storage lid is out of the way. Good luck, it takes some time but you'll get it.
 
#3 ·
We need a sticky on manually manipulating the top. The storage lid is held down by 2 latches operated by cables attached to a motor under the rear seat. The cables must be in this position for the latches to be released. If they are not then push the button and keep turning, left or right, whichever is easier.



If the roof is in an error state the trunk is locked out electronically. Close the top and try the trunk. If the trunk still won't open electronically then likely your trunk harness has a broke wire at the bend between trunk and body. Search, it is a common e46 problem. A broken trunk harness wire can indicate the trunk is open and the convertible top operation will be locked out. Usually that is accompanied by the trunk open light on the dash.
 
#4 ·
Still Stuck

So far no good. I have jimmied with the rear cover with the button with override to manual crack (under the back seat). Still no luck. So anyone know and can advise me on two tactics:
1. Where might I access the cable-based latches to the rear cover? By stripping the trunk or by taking out the back seats.

2. Should I try releasing the hydraulic pressure? If so how would I do this?

thanks...CLIF
 
#5 · (Edited)
So far no good. I have jimmied with the rear cover with the button with override to manual crack (under the back seat). Still no luck. So anyone know and can advise me on two tactics:
1. Where might I access the cable-based latches to the rear cover? By stripping the trunk or by taking out the back seats.

2. Should I try releasing the hydraulic pressure? If so how would I do this?

thanks...CLIF
1. Did you remove the rear seat and check the position of the cables as in the photo I posted? If not, go do it now. If the cables are not in the position pictured, push the button and turn the crank till they are. If the crank is tough to turn, try the other direction or find a stronger friend.

2. With the vehicle off there is no hydraulic pressure. The pump builds up pressure when turned on, and releases pressure when turned off. If the lid will not open then it is related to the cables or motor as the design of the latches will release if either the cable or motor fails.

3. I suspect I misinterpreted your initial post.
cliftonjay said:
But, the back of the top by the rear window will not budge.
Can you lift the rear window? If not then you need to crank the motor by the windshield more. There are 2 sets of latches controlled by that motor, the 2 obvious ones that connect to the windshield, and 2 more at the "first bend". If both sets of latches are not released you will not be able to raise the rear window section.



If that solves your issue you owe me a case of Canadian beer. :dave:
 
#6 ·
OK, thanks all for your input and help. But now I'm in worse shape because the windshield release crank appears to have broken. I was going to try and turn/open it more so that the hing lock would release. But, now the little allen bolt seems to unscrew! This seems wrong. I tried applying pressure to keep in in/engaged but no luck. So now I can even release the windsheid at all. I am thinking that this is trouble. Getting access to this mechanism looks like a pain.

One alternative that I was contemplating was to open the headliner by the back hing, and get to my broken wire through the back. I know which wire it is bc it broke before.

Any ideas? Thanks...CLIF
 
#7 ·
Yep, you're screwed. No point fixing the wire if the front latches won't release manually. Search and you'll find some recent threads where members had to cut open the panel to access the latches and motor. If either breaks with the roof closed there's no way to remove the panel, you have to cut it open.

If the Allen key is turning without doing anything then the plastic gear inside the motor assembly is broken and you'll need a whole new motor assembly since the gear isn't available. Again search, a member posted great details about this recently.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
 
#9 ·
I have a similar situation. And yes, I've read a zillion posts without success. I know my ultimate repair is a broken wire, but I can't get to it yet. My original condition is that I would press the button to lower the top, the front latches would unlock, the top would lift a little and then stop. I could press the close button and the top would close and relatch itself. I get a code that says something like low voltage at terminal 30. Pretty obvious that it's a broken wire. I've done this once before but apparently another wire has broken. I hope it's in the same location and I don't have to dig much further. But getting to the wires is the problem.

I turned the LOWER allen wrench, the one under the seat to get the cables in the released position. I have also unlocked the top by turning the UPPER allen key to the point where the top unlocked and lifted an inch or so. At that point I can force the top to lift about 6 inches but no further. I have also turned the UPPER allen key quite a ways and nothing is changing. Is there a plastic gear in the UPPER motor that can break? Is there a gear in the UPPER motor that only unlocks the tops locks but does not affect a lower locking mechanism? Also, the rear of the top by the window is latched firm, I can't get it to budge so there are definitely some latches that have not released.

I'm going to delve deeper into the upper motor gears, see if anything makes sense there. I just find it strange that I can release the upper latches but the rear lid stays latched tight.

Thanks, your help is greatly appreciated. And please, no lectures about searching. The algorithm for searching is not very robust, you get way more than you need and multi-term searches expand the results, they don't narrow it.
 
#11 ·
I went through this recently too. If the rear window will not lift and is firmly locked to the rear cover you need to keep turning the UPPER allen/hex key. I put the correct size allen/hex bit in my hand drill and, very carefully, turned it with an electric drill. I was going slow, and I was very careful to make sure it didn't bind up, but it took a while. When you've gone far enough you will be able to lift the front of the top fairly easily and it will bend at the first joint, the one where the wires always break. At that point you should be able to lift the rear.

Another point that doesn't always come through on the posts I've read is about the lower gear you turn to unlock the rear lid. You should only have to turn it about 180 degrees to get the cables in the right position. I've seen posts where people have said, of the LOWER gears, that if you can't release the rear deck keep turning and turning. This is wrong. The lower motor has a sensor that turns the motor off when it hits the right position. If the gears aren't stripped the rear deck will unlatch in less than one revolution. Take off the plastic cover and watch the mechanism as you turn the gears with the allen/hex wrench.

And lastly, I've also seen some misinformation about turning the lower gears. Someone said if it doesn't turn, try harder. If that doesn't work get a stronger friend. NO NO NO. Working correctly this mechanism spins very easily. If it seems like it's stuck, make sure you've pressed and are holding the button that unlocks the gears from the motor. If you don't press and hold the button you can't spin the gears. In my case, I was also able to lift the idler gear off and the allen wrench spun the gear freely. And remember, you only need to turn it one revolution at the most. I sat there and spun it around a number of time. The lever that pulls on the cables goes back and forth between it's two (locked and unlocked) positions once every revolution of the gear you are turning with the allen/hex wrench.

I had to fix a couple more broken wires, they've all been repaired now. Unfortunately once I resolved that problem the top wouldn't move after it unlocked. The front would lift a couple of inches and just sit there. No pump sound, no grinding gears, no flashing red light. Turns out my hydraulic pump is probably dead. I went through all tests of the relay and even followed the 12 volts down to the base of the pump. It just doesn't run. After all that work I now have to spend another $400 for a rebuilt pump.

While I'm going on here, I'd like to mention another revelation I made. One you might find wading through all the posts, but not all that obvious. Through all these problems, about the only code that I saw was "low voltage on terminal 30." This was a complete distraction. My car sit's a fair amount and the battery runs down. I replaced it last year, so it is fairly new, but it sit's enough to get discharged. Not sure if there's a parasitic drain causing the problem, but that's another issue. This is probably the cause for the terminal 30 error. Even when the battery was charged enough to start the car, I would still get this code. Even with the car running I would still get this code. It didn't go away until I thoroughly charged that battery. If I drive the car regularly the code doesn't come back. If I let the battery drain down, I'll start seeing it again. As far as I can tell, even though it shows up in the convertible top module section, this code has nothing to do with the top. Or if it does, it's for an awfully obscure reason.

I'm off the soapbox, time to find a rebuilt pump.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top