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Some Accurate Oil Information for You

105K views 248 replies 127 participants last post by  BartenderPlease 
#1 ·
I have been crusing through this site and noticed there is a lot of misinformation and confusion about oil. Here are a few things you should know about oil for BMW's:

1) All new BMW's require synthetic. As far as weight, only certain production dates of M3's and M5's require the use of Castrol TWS 10w-60.

2) The Factory BMW Synth 5w-30 is a version of Castrol TXT Softect sold overseas. A few important things about the BMW oil a) it is a Group III hydrocracked oil which cannot be called synthetic in Europe, b) it is a heavy 30 weight (30 weight can run from 9.3-12.5cst@100c, the BMW oil is about 12.2cst), c) it is a ACEA A3 oil which means that it is approved for longer change intervals and has a HTHS (High Tempurature High Shear) measured at 150c of greater than 3.5.

3) In the US, the only Group IV PAO Synthetics that are available are 1) Mobil 1, 2) Amsoil (but not the Xl-7500), 3) Royal Purple, and 4) German Castrol 0w-30 (it has the red label and says on the back, "Made in Germany). Redline is a Group V PolyEster based oil. All other Castrol, Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline "synthetics" are a Group III hydrocracked oil. It is debated how much better Group IV base oils are than group III, but generally they are considered better.

4) When looking for oil for any BMW that does not require Castrol TWS 10w-60, you want to purchase an oil that has either/both of the following ratings, a) ACEA A3, or b) BMW LL-98 or LL-01.

5) Note that Mobil 1 0w-30, 5w-30, and 10w-30 are NOT ACEA A3 or BMW LL approved oils. This is because they all are thin 30 weight oils (approximately 9.8-10 CST@ 100c) and have HTHS of approximately 3.1. Mobil 1 0w-40 and 15w-50 are A3 rated and the Ow-40 is BMW LL-01 approved. For 99% of climates and users 0w-40 or 5w-40 is the appropriate grade. There are some 0w-30 and 5w-30 oils (like the BMW 5w-30) that are forumlated on the heavier end of the 30 weight scale and are accordingly rated A3. These oils will work well also. LOOK FOR THAT ACEA A3 rating. If the oil doesn't have it, pass on it.

6) Some people seem confused about how oil thickness is measured. The first number (0W, 5w, 10w, 15w, etc) is a measurement of how thick the oil is at tempuratures of -35c- -20c (depends on the grade). The lower this first number the thinner the oil is at LOW tempuratures. The second number (30, 40, 50) refers to oil thickness at 100c (operating tempurature). 30 weight can be from 9.3-12.5 cst, 40 weight from 12.6-16.2 cst, 50 weight from 16.3-22cst (approximate). So you can have two oils, one called a 5w-30 (i.e. bmw oil) another 0w-40 (Mobil 1) that are very similar thicknesses at operating tempurature. Compare this to Mobil 1 Xw-30 which is close to a 20 weight oil at 100c. For more information here is a link with exact numbers http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html

7) BMW's recommended interval of 12,000-15,000 miles is to long. Used oil analysis has shown the BMW oil is generally depleted at 10,000 miles. Running it longer results in excess wear. It is highly recommended that you change your oil once between each BMW recommended interval (approx 7000-7500 miles). If you want to run your oil the BMW recommended interval, I would suggest that you use Mobil 1 0w-40 or Amsoil 5w-40 and change the oil filter at 7500 miles. I would encourage a full oil change at 7500 if you want your engine to last.

8) If you want to spend a few hours learning about oil, go to bobistheoilguy.com

Cary
 
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#52 ·
Cary,

I work in the lubricants industry and want to comment on a few of these items. There is nothing wrong with using the 5W-30 Mobil 1 oil if you are concerned about the ACEA requirements. It is an ACEA A5 oil which adds ontop of A3's requirements with fuel economy. The engine oil manufactuer/lubricant additive company must prove that the oil proves fuel economy over a base oil. Its quite possible that other oils also meet this, but this is another costly certification that they may not choose to run for all oils. All certifications cost money. The additive packages you get in all the mobil 1 grades is not going to vary performance wise. they dont make the 0-40 better than the 5W-30 by adding more anti-wear, dispersants or detergent additives.

Also i think you were concerned about the weights of the oil. The company cannot brand the oil at a 5W-30 unless it meets certain viscosity ranges. I highly doubt your going to experience substantial engine wear if you are 2 cst off of the BMW target but you have a great additive package (which mobil 1 does). Its the additives that do all the protection.

Lastly about using oils not from major companies... I really would not recommend it. Companies like ExxonMobil and Castrol actually do a lot of engine testing and are very involved in selecting the best additives and making sure the package works together well with the oil. They spend lots of money to get approvals. The smaller companies cannot do all this testing and get so involved with fine tuning the oil. They buy a good base stock but what about the additive package? Theres a lot of science that goes into makign a good additive package and i doubt if they a lot of times have the resources to develop one. Often times a lot of these packages are the same ones used by a big name company just stuck in a different base stock with no testing. You dont see formula one cars running around with joe schmoe oils in them now do you?

Bottom line, anyone using 5W30 Mobil 1, dont worry about. your engine is going to last a long long time and i wouldnt change a thing.

-Jeff



cary1 said:
I have been crusing through this site and noticed there is a lot of misinformation and confusion about oil. Here are a few things you should know about oil for BMW's:

1) All new BMW's require synthetic. As far as weight, only certain production dates of M3's and M5's require the use of Castrol TWS 10w-60.

2) The Factory BMW Synth 5w-30 is a version of Castrol TXT Softect sold overseas. A few important things about the BMW oil a) it is a Group III hydrocracked oil which cannot be called synthetic in Europe, b) it is a heavy 30 weight (30 weight can run from 9.3-12.5cst@100c, the BMW oil is about 12.2cst), c) it is a ACEA A3 oil which means that it is approved for longer change intervals and has a HTHS (High Tempurature High Shear) measured at 150c of greater than 3.5.

3) In the US, the only Group IV PAO Synthetics that are available are 1) Mobil 1, 2) Amsoil (but not the Xl-7500), 3) Royal Purple, and 4) German Castrol 0w-30 (it has the red label and says on the back, "Made in Germany). Redline is a Group V PolyEster based oil. All other Castrol, Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline "synthetics" are a Group III hydrocracked oil. It is debated how much better Group IV base oils are than group III, but generally they are considered better.

4) When looking for oil for any BMW that does not require Castrol TWS 10w-60, you want to purchase an oil that has either/both of the following ratings, a) ACEA A3, or b) BMW LL-98 or LL-01.

5) Note that Mobil 1 0w-30, 5w-30, and 10w-30 are NOT ACEA A3 or BMW LL approved oils. This is because they all are thin 30 weight oils (approximately 9.8-10 CST@ 100c) and have HTHS of approximately 3.1. Mobil 1 0w-40 and 15w-50 are A3 rated and the Ow-40 is BMW LL-01 approved. For 99% of climates and users 0w-40 or 5w-40 is the appropriate grade. There are some 0w-30 and 5w-30 oils (like the BMW 5w-30) that are forumlated on the heavier end of the 30 weight scale and are accordingly rated A3. These oils will work well also. LOOK FOR THAT ACEA A3 rating. If the oil doesn't have it, pass on it.

6) Some people seem confused about how oil thickness is measured. The first number (0W, 5w, 10w, 15w, etc) is a measurement of how thick the oil is at tempuratures of -35c- -20c (depends on the grade). The lower this first number the thinner the oil is at LOW tempuratures. The second number (30, 40, 50) refers to oil thickness at 100c (operating tempurature). 30 weight can be from 9.3-12.5 cst, 40 weight from 12.6-16.2 cst, 50 weight from 16.3-22cst (approximate). So you can have two oils, one called a 5w-30 (i.e. bmw oil) another 0w-40 (Mobil 1) that are very similar thicknesses at operating tempurature. Compare this to Mobil 1 Xw-30 which is close to a 20 weight oil at 100c. For more information here is a link with exact numbers http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html

7) BMW's recommended interval of 12,000-15,000 miles is to long. Used oil analysis has shown the BMW oil is generally depleted at 10,000 miles. Running it longer results in excess wear. It is highly recommended that you change your oil once between each BMW recommended interval (approx 7000-7500 miles). If you want to run your oil the BMW recommended interval, I would suggest that you use Mobil 1 0w-40 or Amsoil 5w-40 and change the oil filter at 7500 miles. I would encourage a full oil change at 7500 if you want your engine to last.

8) If you want to spend a few hours learning about oil, go to bobistheoilguy.com

Cary
 
#53 ·
pimpn04coupe said:
my yellow oil light goes on once in a while... i need to add oil i think... im gonna go buy oil right now... which exact one do i need i have a 2004 330ci id really aprreciate the info im not too familiar with which oil i need and how far should i fill it? thanks

btw i have about 5k miles on my car right now...
:dunno: anyone? :banghead:
 
#54 ·
pimpn04coupe said:
:dunno: anyone? :banghead:
Check your oil level first if it's good, take it to your dealer for service.
If you need to add oil I would think it best to add the same type of oil as whats in your car right now. My guess is Castrol Syntec 5W-30.
 
#55 ·
:blink:

I don't know what to believe anymore. I've been doing filter changes and top offs at 5k between the service intervals. I actually once scheduled an oil change and the dealership told me I wasn't due for one. I told them I would pay for one and they told me it was unnecessary and silly. Fortunatly, because of random luck, the longest any oil has ever been in my engine is 10k miles. But, whatever. I guess I'll start changing the oil at 7500k miles between intervals if that's the recommendation of the day. :rolleyes:
 
#57 ·
I've never actually changed the oil @ BMWs 15K mark, the computer seems to tell me I need a change ~12K or so. Anyhow, is that computer accurate? How does it decide.

Also, My Xi seems to need a qt of oil every 4-5 month. Based on this, I should be able to ride out the 12K-15K change intervals right? Cuz I'd have about 3-4 qts added, that pretty much have replaced all the "old" oil. :dunno:

I used to change every 3K, but I used organic oils then (non-bmw). With synth. people tell me that since the oils don't change shape etc, 10k-15k should be ok.
 
#59 ·
wha whaa whaaa

Great write up man! :thumbup: After reading that and looking at all the replies, it made me think of us E46 owners as parents trying to figure out whats best for our "babies"! lol...WE REALLY love our "kids", dont we guys?? :pimpin:
 
#60 ·
jtt777 said:
Cary,

I work in the lubricants industry and want to comment on a few of these items. There is nothing wrong with using the 5W-30 Mobil 1 oil if you are concerned about the ACEA requirements. It is an ACEA A5 oil which adds ontop of A3's requirements with fuel economy. The engine oil manufactuer/lubricant additive company must prove that the oil proves fuel economy over a base oil. Its quite possible that other oils also meet this, but this is another costly certification that they may not choose to run for all oils. All certifications cost money. The additive packages you get in all the mobil 1 grades is not going to vary performance wise. they dont make the 0-40 better than the 5W-30 by adding more anti-wear, dispersants or detergent additives.

-Jeff
You should know better than. ACEA A3 and A5 are mutually exclusive. You are thinking of A1 which A5 includes. Both ACEA A3 and A5 are for extended change intervals, but A3 is for high HTHS oils with a HTHS of 3.5 or greater and A5 is for engines designed for lower HTHS oils of 2.9-3.5. Last I checked BMW fell in the the A3 group in their designs, and VW/Audi depending on the engine used A5 (lets not get into the entire 505.xx VW oil confusion).

I tried to post the chart but it won't so here is a link:

http://www.lubrizol.com/ReadyReference/EngineOils/6-OilClasses/default.asp

You should know who lubrizol is, since you probably buy your additives from them. On the right of the page you can pull up the ACEA specs which clearly show the diff between A1, A3 and A5.

In reference to your comment about 5w-30 being only 2cst thinner, note that it 1) is A5 rated, not A3, because it has to low of an HTHS, 2) BMW's own oil is A3, and 3) the only oil that Mobil 1 makes with BMW LL approval is the 0w-40.

Small oil companies- Note that I disagree about the quality, redline and amsoil make great products. I agree with sticking with Mobil because if you have an engine failure, however unlikely, BMW will not be able to say it was becasause you used a non API rated oil.

Cary
 
#61 ·
jk330i said:
I'm clueless on the type of oils out there, but is this the same as the one BMW sells?

So is the one BMW sells a BMW - Castrol Synthetic 5W-30 oil?
No, BMW's oil has a beefier additive package to try and help the oil survive 15k intervals. IF you plan on keeping your car, change at 7500 miles.

Cary
 
#62 ·
jtt777 said:
Cary,


Also i think you were concerned about the weights of the oil. The company cannot brand the oil at a 5W-30 unless it meets certain viscosity ranges. I highly doubt your going to experience substantial engine wear if you are 2 cst off of the BMW target but you have a great additive package (which mobil 1 does). Its the additives that do all the protection.

-Jeff
Really, the additives do all the protection!!! Then why don't we all run 0w-10 oils to improve fuel economy? Then why don't all manufactures use the thinest oil they can get to improve their CAFE standards? Because the thickness of the oil plays a vital role in engine protection. You may work in the industry, but you are obviously not an engineer or involved in certification process.

Cary
 
#63 ·
Am I the only one that's ripping pissed that BMW goes out of their way to make sure you DON'T change the oil between service intervals? It's one thing that they are wrong about how long their oil lasts... but to discourage you from doing extra... ugh.
 
#64 ·
SteelBlueXI said:
Am I the only one that's ripping pissed that BMW goes out of their way to make sure you DON'T change the oil between service intervals? It's one thing that they are wrong about how long their oil lasts... but to discourage you from doing extra... ugh.
I'm not pissed, just a little dissapointed. Although their response makes sense from BMW's point of view. Consider consumer response if BMW dealership representatives say things that directly conflict with BMW corporate recommendations. I feel pretty confident there were a number of discussions with all involved parties to present a unified front.
 
#65 ·
Cary,

chill out, im actually a chemical engineer and am involved in the manufacture of these additives. when i mean additives to the protection im talking about a base stock itself wont last at all. if you dont have dispersants to suspend soot, detergents to neutralize acids, zddps for anti wear, LOFIs for cold flow your oil will suck. this is what i mean, and of course if you run some 0W-10 oil it isnt going to provide adequate protection at high temperatures its too thin. i never said it would and sorry you mis-interpreted it as that. (i didn't think a phd would) the viscosity wont be good enough for a car requring a higher weight. do you know what lets you have multigrade oils??? additives! there are viscosity modifiers put into engine oils that allow performace across a wide range of temperatures so you can rate something as a multigrade oil.

I'm not involved in the certification process but i do learn a few thing being in the industry and honestly you are reading into these requirements just a bit too far and complicating and issues that needs not be so complex. at least i think so.


-Jeff


cary1 said:
Really, the additives do all the protection!!! Then why don't we all run 0w-10 oils to improve fuel economy? Then why don't all manufactures use the thinest oil they can get to improve their CAFE standards? Because the thickness of the oil plays a vital role in engine protection. You may work in the industry, but you are obviously not an engineer or involved in certification process.

Cary
 
#66 ·
So, after reading everything posted I'm still not sure what's better to use :) .
I am using oils that dealer here offers and plan to do that in future, the problem is they offer different oils and can't tell me what's best to use though. They have 5w-30, 5w-40 and sometimes 0w-30. All bottles are marked like "high perfomance bmw original oil etc". From what I've read here it's best to use 5w30/0w30 in summer and 5w-40 in winter(temperatures can drop to -31..-32C during winter). Am I right here?
 
#67 ·
You people have me so paranoid that I just went out and changed my oil filter. On a side note, drop in oil filters rule. Very smart design. I really need to organize my tools better though. It took me a half hour to find my little torque wrench.
 
#68 ·
jtt777 said:
Cary,

chill out, im actually a chemical engineer and am involved in the manufacture of these additives. when i mean additives to the protection im talking about a base stock itself wont last at all. if you dont have dispersants to suspend soot, detergents to neutralize acids, zddps for anti wear, LOFIs for cold flow your oil will suck. this is what i mean, and of course if you run some 0W-10 oil it isnt going to provide adequate protection at high temperatures its too thin. i never said it would and sorry you mis-interpreted it as that. (i didn't think a phd would) the viscosity wont be good enough for a car requring a higher weight. do you know what lets you have multigrade oils??? additives! there are viscosity modifiers put into engine oils that allow performace across a wide range of temperatures so you can rate something as a multigrade oil.

I'm not involved in the certification process but i do learn a few thing being in the industry and honestly you are reading into these requirements just a bit too far and complicating and issues that needs not be so complex. at least i think so.


-Jeff
Jeff,

You made the cart blanc statement that the additives provide the protection. I pointed out that that is not true. As far as multigrade oils, as you are well aware, Synthetics (group III, IV & V) are all naturally mutigrade and depending on the weight need from none to moderate amounts of VI improvers and pour point depresants. In the case of Mobil 1 is is generally accepted that the 10w-30 does not have VI improvers and Redline has stated flat out that their oils, with the exception of the 5w-40 do not use VI improvers or pour point depresants.

As far as making the topic complicated, I believe I made it pretty simple. If you look at my original post I said:

1) Use an A3 rated oil, which the BMW 5w-30 is.
2) Look for a BMW LL-98 or 01 oil.
3) Noted that Mobil 1 in the 30 weight grades meet neither of these standards.
4) Noted that Mobil 1 0w-40 meets both.

Cary
 
#70 ·
SkipII said:
They're slapping each other with their credentials, but let's hope it doesn't go down the slipperly slope to full-scale War over Oil.

I can't bear to watch....

I am no subject expert in oil analysis. However, what I do have is real world experience.

I have a 2000 323i. I currently have about 62,000 miles on my 2K e46 bimmer. During the lifetime of my bimmer, I have only use mobile 1 Ow40.
I have not encounter any problems so far. In matter of fact, I sent in my oil for an oil analysis and it checked out fine.

Regardless of whether X brand Oil and Y grade oil is better, all I know is that the BMW recommended oil interval change (15,000 miles) is BOGUS!!!!!!!!!!
This is purely a marketting glimic to make BMW looks more reliable. It doesn't hurt your car if you change your oil an/or oil filter every 3-7,000 miles.

For those people that ONLY change their oil at every 15,000 miles, I think you need to use a little of common sense and/or knowledge. With regards to the oil change recommendation, you shouldn't follow your service manual recommendation that religiously.
 
#71 ·
cary1 said:
Give me a break. I'm sorry that I am not up to date on all the latest BMW TSB's concerning their changing recommendations for M car motor oil. I would be willing to bet that if you went to your dealer, their service techs would not be either, and they have the information at a touch of a button. :dunno:

Frankly, I took the time to post the information to bring some FACTUAL information to the group in an area where there is a lot of speculation, innacurate information, and speculation floating around. I don't notice that you have gone out and done the research and offered up any solid information on the subject!!! Instead you have chosen to take a caveat and note that since I don't have the most up to date TSB's in hand cast the dispersion that all my information must be innacurate. Childish.

Cary
10W60 has been required on the M3 since June of 2001. Not exactly new information.

My point was that if you're going to be so bold as to proclaim (in your thread title, no less) that you are presenting us with ACCURATE information...it's not a good sign when item #1 is INACCURATE.
 
#72 ·
atyclb said:
10W60 has been required on the M3 since June of 2001. Not exactly new information.

My point was that if you're going to be so bold as to proclaim (in your thread title, no less) that you are presenting us with ACCURATE information...it's not a good sign when item #1 is INACCURATE.

To clarify what I meant, my information was only applicable to those vehicles not calling for the 10w-60. A comment. I went and looked at some of your posts. The majority of them appear to be this exact type of thing, sitting and looking for a statement that may be in the slightest way innacurate and then jumping up and saying, look at me, I know more than the poster. Usually a sign of insecurity. Once again, as I did before, I challange you to produce some better information. How about contributing rather than simple playing armchair quarterback?!!!

To everyone else, I've spent enough time on the subject. Take the information for what it is worth, personally I am a pretty anal person and spent a great deal of time before coming up the information presented. I try to be as non-baised as possible and my ideas are based in fact, not speculation. If you really want to find out more, go to bobistheoilguy.com and have at it. There is a enough information and intelligent debate to keep a person busy for months.

Cary
 
#74 ·
Accurate?

"The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best."

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question164.htm
 
#75 ·
cary1 said:
A comment. I went and looked at some of your posts. The majority of them appear to be this exact type of thing, sitting and looking for a statement that may be in the slightest way innacurate and then jumping up and saying, look at me, I know more than the poster. Usually a sign of insecurity. Once again, as I did before, I challange you to produce some better information. How about contributing rather than simple playing armchair quarterback?!!!
you misspelled inaccurate

:pimpin:
 
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