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BMW won't recall defective water pumps (but Toyota will...)

6K views 64 replies 26 participants last post by  scarede46er 
#1 ·
I'm sure this will get moved. Interesting to see how BMW, since 1992 and up through at least the E90 series continues to install a water pump that has an excellent chance of failing between 60,000 and 100,000 miles. Yet, Toyota recalls millions of vehicles built from 2001 for the same reason.

Take note BMW.
 
#2 · (Edited)
News flash.. bmw really doesnt care much about reliability. At least as a major facet. Sportscars by default are generally more involved to take care of than a family towncar. For toyota it is their livelihood. I personally like cars that are a bit tempermental. Keeps things interesting.

Also bmw has had plenty of warranty extensions, recalls, you're comparing apples and oranges here. I get what you are saying but people have gone well over 100k miles on the originial e46 water pump so. just a mater of looking at the statistics i guess.
 
#54 ·
The only thing defective here is the ridiculous notion that parts are supposed to last forever.


News flash.. bmw really doesnt care much about reliability. At least as a major facet. Sportscars by default are generally more involved to take care of than a family towncar. For toyota it is their livelihood.
^ this is spot on.

Want a car that will last forever without you spending much money? You're in the wrong brand, buddy.
 
#5 ·
It's just not BMW, many manufactures uses plastic impeller water pumps for cost & weight. VW has the same issues, however, on the 1.8l motor the timing belt drives the water pump. If the pump bearing fails, the timing belt jumps, then you are into at least pulling the cylinder head for bent valves!
 
#37 ·
When it comes to admitting their cars have problems, Toyota is far more reluctant than BMW to do so. They've had a sludge problem in their V6 engines for 20 years and refuse to acknowledge it. Remember the brake recall that they said wasn't a problem for years? Toyota would rather have people die than admit their cars have problems.

Signed,
Tyler Durden
 
#28 ·
well BMW made some 4,693,819 E46s. so add E36s, E9Xs and 5 series to the almost 4.7 million number of E46s. I think you get the point that its a lot.
 
#10 ·
+1

1) BMW water pumps are not "defective" and are not particularly more prone to failure than any other make. Every car uses a water pump. Water pumps use bearings. The life of a bearing is finite regardless of what part of the globe it's from. So take note BMW at what?

2) With the exception of the short-lived 1990s E36 "plastic water impellar" debacle of the 1990s, BMW pumps are excellent and actually superior to many other makes, including many Japanese pumps I've come across. I can't even begin to tell you how many Japanese cars require water pump/cooling jobs before 100k miles. You don't even want to know what a chore of a job a water pump on a Toyota/Honda V6 (or ANY make V6 or even 4 cylinder for that matter) is.

Again, replace your cooling system every 80k miles and you'll never have a problem. If YOU have a problem with that, then you can't afford to be driving any car.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Also how many will spend $750+ for a cooling system overhaul on a 10 year old car that cost $18k new??

My 2003 M5 cost over $75k new, so I have no problem spending $ on it as needed.

Heck, I just replaced the timing belt, water pump, all tensioners, idlers, serpentine belt and tensioner, thermostat & new antifreeze on my daughters 2003 VW Beetle, parts only $250.

10 year old water pump was fine when I pulled it.

BTW the only reason Toyota recalled the pumps was due to some safety issue. I have not researched the issue, but likely loss of steering and/or engine cutting out. Toyota did not recall on their own, NHTSA had enough complaints and the numbers determined a recall was needed.

I the E46 was driven like a normal car, the pumps would last even longer, however, we all know what the 20-30 year old male drivers do to their E46! I assume some women even drive them hard!

I would bet the BMW pumps are no worse than most other cars out there, the plastic will not last forever and if you overheat the car for other reasons, change the water pump and auto trans fluid, they do not like the heat!
 
#18 ·
I replaced my water pump along with the rest of the cooling system at ~185,000km (~114,954 miles). My mechanic confirmed it was the pump that shipped with the car because I wasn't sure since I am the second owner of the car. Although the pump hadn't given me any issues at all till then, it had to be replaced simply because I didn't want to gamble.

Stuff happens, but I'm more than willing to spend a few dollars to keep my car in optimum shape and extend its life.
 
#19 ·
Name one person here on this site that has replaced the water pump because it went bad, or the impeller got destroyed. We all do it as preventive maintenance, but I can't recall anyone who has actually seen the pump go bad and then had to replace. OK, well, maybe one, but that is one out of 200,000.
 
#20 · (Edited)
I've actually seen a few cases of that happening. It's not exceedingly common, but it can happen. When you've got tons of people with an E46 all with similar products, you can bet that at least a few stories like that are going to happen. It's a numbers game. Quality control is not perfect.

There are few things that will catastrophically fail without warning on the E46. The expansion tank is one of them.

The water pump can catastrophically fail, but it doesn't mean it happens often at all.

The point is, when something is failing, there's a very very high chance that it will exhibit some sort of small failure that will allow you to fix it before it does catastrophically fail.

For water pumps, this is usually leaking, wobbling, or noise. When you see or hear those happening, then you need to replace it. I can go into every part on our car that shows some sort of evidence of failing before finally completely breaking, but that would take up too much time. For example, my rear shocks are leaking. The seals have failed. So what? It's handling just fine. I have lots and lots and lots and lots of time to wait before I can replace them.

Now that I've done my entire cooling system with fresh and updated parts, I am never going to touch it again until anything exhibits any sort of failure, and then replace those parts individually.

Unless I have good reason to replace something, I am going to use all my parts for their intended useful life: AKA, when they show signs of failure.
 
#25 ·
Your the winner!
 
#27 ·
Yeah, they're highly sophisticated. One reason is because they know people are not going to wait a minute after parking before shutting down their car to cool down the turbos. This allows the car to continue to cool everything down with the water pump even after the car has shut off and the driver has walked away.

Another reason is the pump can deliver the optimal flow at all all times, regardless of engine speed.
 
#29 · (Edited)
One major factor to consider when comparing Japanese to German is:

Name me one Japanese automaker that does NOT recommend replacing the water pump when the timing belt is due? IIRC, most Japanese automakers call for timing belts to be replaced between 60K-80K miles...maybe some are at 100K now. Who really wants to run a water pump through 2 timing belts? Not me and it's not exactly fun to do timing belt jobs on any Japanese car, or do it a second time before it's due again because your ass was too cheap to replace it proactively!

I say give the gold to BMW! At least the damn water pump is EASY to replace if it craps out.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Another important thing to note is the Recall is for the steering gear that gets the splines worn and can cause steering issues.
The Electric water pump on some of the hybrid Prius is the smaller recall. Their electric water pump may go out then short circuit the relay and then cause the car to stop while driving. This electrical fault is much different from water pumps wearing out. This doesn't instantly shut down our combustion engines in the middle of driving without warning. This is a Safety issue and not Toyota stepping up because they want to be known for longevity.
 
#31 ·
Cadillac NorthStar for the WIN!
 
#36 ·
Hi Guys, water pump went on my 2001 330 sport convertible at 95k miles. Radiator also changed at 75k miles as some muppet put sealer in it. Had car now for almost 6 years and love it with only 30k miles done over that period. Only issues are OBC not working and oil level sensor faulty as comes on for 10 secs after starting her up.
 
#39 ·
Replaced my water pump, on my previous 330ci @ around 118K miles as P.M. Was fine when inspected. Owned the car since it had 64K miles on it so I'm positive it was original pump

Also, original ET till 128K miles when I crashed it!

Sometimes I think all the ET horror stories are due to improper filling the radiator

My second (and present 330ci) acquired it from a gentleman who, I guess likes to buy cars, prep them, then sell them; Appears to have the original ET on it (Except this ET does not have a lip!)

What I've found interesting is that he went the extra mile to install a stewart water pump, Dinan cold air intake and software, cryo treated rotors, even BSW speakers and the list goes on BUT somehow didn't do VCG and and left original ET

The vehicle so far (23K miles) proved to be solidly reliable. No issues.
 
#41 ·
Electric water pump is likely a DC brush motor.

Will end up being like the fuel pumps, likely working one minute, then the next moment, will not work??

If BMW designed their supervisor circuity correctly, then they should be able to monitor the water pump current draw and trigger a CEL, which is not the correct thing for a non working water pump, or pop some sort of coolant indicator light.

Then the question is can they actually shut the engine down somewhere before it melts down or can they do something like the Cadillac NorthStar system t where they shut fuel delivery down on every other stroke to keep the combustion/engine temps down?? As I recall you could drive a NorthStar motor 50 miles in overheat limp mode??
 
#63 ·
I'm getting this feeling that some in the community have this notion that BMWs are built like the movement that's in a Rolex so to speak, meaning the mechanical nature of the thing will not break. It's a fact of life, all German car's are finicky to some degree, and even beyond. If it's made by man and it's mechanical, it's going to break - fact of life. Repairs hurt the wallet in a BMW more because it is a premium brand, but who doesn't know that when you sign on the dotted line. I remember my salesman telling me the cost it will run me after the factory warranty was over. Anyways, enough about that. My water pump started weeping at around 40,000 miles. It started to weep more ay 100,000 miles so ECS Tuning to the rescue with their Stage 3 cooling system replacement, plus a fan clutch and even more hoses. So now, all the "spinny things" up front are new, the S54 runs cool, and life is good for another 100k miles, hopefully.
 
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