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Success for Turboed 325

25K views 104 replies 26 participants last post by  bimmerguy055 
#1 ·
As some of you know I have successfully turboed my car. And unlike most people I'll share my results of doing a one off setup. For starters I'll just post pictures (not all are here but ill add some more later), then answer any questions that you have.

Keep in mind this is over 2 years of different configurations :)
 

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#4 · (Edited)
Thanks! I did fab everything up except the exhaust manifold. I had a tuner in LBC hold my hand with the tune.
They are real numbers see video's below




Current parts:
-SPA manifold (want to make my own, ask if interested)
-precision 6266 (rated for 700+ hp)
-Precision FMIC (rated for 700 hp)
-38mm china WG (want to go bigger, ask if interested)
-2.5" charge pipe
-Turbo XS RFL bov
-Pro EFI basic kit ( EMS, patch harness, wideband, fuel pressure sensor, boost solenoid, and map sensor.)
-AEM wideband (so I can have a gauge in the cabin)
-60lb simmions injectors
-255lph fuel pump
-fuel lab FPR
-aeromotive fuel filter (10 micron)
- VAC oversized HG just .040"
-raceware headstuds
-ebay catch can (deleted all traces of oil separator, JB welded air distributor holes shut)
-scavenge oil pump

I may have left something out.. but for the most part thats it

I like what you've done here, and your total dedication to this project. Hopefully with your guidance, many more will follow in your footsteps.

Keep it up !

Rob :thumbsup:
thanks buddy
 
#5 ·
Wow very impressive if those numbers are true @ 352whp. My hats off to you that you did all the work yourself and fab'd everything up. Not an easy task especially it being a 2 year long task. Glad you stuck with it though, lots of trial and error paid off. I know you can't expect the car to last very long though on that un-built (correct me if I'm wrong) motor. Also, any future plans? GJ and GL with this ongoing project man.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Thanks! I really didn't have much support especially on forms, everyone ether told me I was going to blow my engine or I should just get a m3" Mostly I had to figure things out myself. It truly depends on your goals.

What did you use for tuning ?
Pro EFI
pictures 10 & 13. those welds are not great.
Your right, thats with flux-cored MIG on crappy power. Now if I had gas, and a TIG it would be beautiful welds. but since this car was my "project" car it gets the job done, and works fine.:thumbsup:
 
#9 ·
Were you the guy I was talking to at bimmerfest with the turbo E46 non-m running a proEFI?
 
#14 ·
congrats on doing this. I love seeing people thinking outside the box and doing things for themselves rather conforming to the absolute garbage people spew on here about not being able to do it without Nick G.

one person says "get a m3", another says "can't be done", and everyone else just repeats what they hear, even though they don't have any real clue of what they're talking about.

having said all that, I know this project has taken quite a bit of effort and your time so I do have a question. looking back at everything, would you still want to build it all over again, rather than getting the TT kit which makes torque a lot sooner, can be bolted on in your garage in a matter of a weekend, and still has a functional check engine light? I ask because if you think of all the time and research it's taken you to accomplish something that still isn't finished, there must be a part of you that wishes it had all been simpler.
 
#15 ·
Thanks! as-far-as going back and doing it again, you mean having the knowledge that I have now? If so, I would have started with an M3 ONLY because I want alot more power now. But at the time I wanted 3-400whp and that I accomplished. I still would have not gone with the TT kit, as for one he doesn't support 325's... and two there are no safety features for the stock DME except using the stock knock controller. what if you had fuel issue, or tweaked with your setup, then u'd have to get someone to tune it again.

when you mentioned "still has a functional check engine light" I do, infact the ONLY code I have right now is for the MAF simply because its unplugged, but could be fab'ed to fit in the charge pipe (need to fix oil on charge pipe 1st) or i can get a MAF simulator via Pro EFI that will take care of it.

TT kit is for people who only want to touch it once, not constantly tweak. Only reason why the torque comes on quicker with his tt kit is simply because its a smaller turbo. I'll admit my turbo is to big for what the engine can handle, and I should have gotten a 58mm turbo, would be perfect especially if I run 25PSI + were the turbo gets into the efficiency range.

Back to "get the M3" now I'd only consider it depending on your power goals, and what economical for you. Since I'm at probably the max my internals can handle any more power I put down is gonna cost me ( build engine, heavy duty clutch, LSD etc.) But since I want MORE power the M3 is looking more attractive, as its a 3.2L (can spool larger turbo quicker) it can rev to 8.5k RPM (again helps with spooling large turbos) it already comes with an LSD, 6 speed, and there seams to be more aftermarket parts for high power.

While the non-m, if I want lets say anything more that 800whp, I'd have to upgrade the head for sure, get a whole different oil pump so I can rev to 8k (w/out it disintegrating it) plus getting a LSD, and built motor. (usually non-m performance parts are more money) So I have to tally up the cost for both, and see how much it will really cost.
 
#18 ·
Are you running a thicker hg?
 
#20 ·
.040 or .140? What fuel are you running at 20 psi with your current setup?
 
#22 ·
Did you ever post up your 10psi dyno? I would love to see that run overlaid with your 20psi run.
 
#23 · (Edited)
All I have is a video clip of it dynoed, and at the end it shows the graph.
\/ \/ \/ Click the pic below \/ \/ \/


I would love to see a 20psi run too, but I'm dealing with boost spiking right now, so im playing with the duty cycle and such until I get it right, then I'll dyno it
 
#29 ·
Awesome stuff. Congrats on getting your car to a place where I expect very few other 325 owners are at.

This certainly gives me hope for a year or so down the line..I just got the Technique Tuning kit for my 330. But in the end I want to run E85 and a bit more power on the stock block, so I will eventually do ProEFI. Nice to hear that it can be made to work. :)

-Matt
 
#31 · (Edited)
Thanks Matt. I can see why there are rare to find boosted 323s 325s etc due to the small amount of power they have from the factory.

At one point I wanted to do a TT kit from them, but they didn't have a kit (only for 330s at the time) and wanted ~8k for it :wowee: when I realized your mainly paying for a tune.

After doing extensive research, and my natural way of tweaking things, the technique tuning kit wouldn't be a fit for me anyways. for a couple reasons but I'll just name a few:

- the safety features are only as good as stock (knock control to cut timing) in that setup there is NO fuel pressure safety in the event of pressure drop or loss of a pump completely.

- in the TT kit you cannot tweak the tune if you change your setup, you have to get it retuned by Nick G.

- NO flex support where one can run any mixture of E85 with the ECU making on the fly adjustments to boost, spark, and fueling based on Ethanol content

- tweakable traction control

-Multiple Fault Management strategies to save the engine and alert the driver incase of sensor failure or tuning errors.

There was a 330 at Pro EFI's shop that apparently had all the CAN working with the EMS so there is good hope. Mine is 90% with the CAN, but I'll have to do more R & D to get it to 100%


the list can go on. BTW Pro EFI does not indorse me to talk about their product.. :tsk:
 
#42 ·
I'm really excited to hear that you have been successful so far. I plan on going FI with forged internals in the future so ill be monitoring your mileage. Keep us updated and best of luck!
 
#47 · (Edited)
So, how would one go about acquiring the "tune" you are using or even coming close to it? Thats the only thing that is stopping me and has stopped me from following your path.
Assuming that you acquire an EMS like mine (Pro EFI, and patch harness) As I know the 330 and 325 has been figured out(CAN bus) therefore all one then needs is to flash the EMS with 325/330 base tune, then one can get the engine running, but you will need to ether have someone tune it or your self in-order to run right.

The only real challenge I had to overcome was IDLE issues, and I fixed it by fooling the DME via resistors to 12v for the ICV (DSC + brake light stayed off ) then let Pro EFI run ICV. Its interesting logging ICV in relation to the TPS, now that the EMS runs the ICV I can finally tweak throttle response to be crisp, like factory intended, if not better.

Now I can finish with a MAF simulator (since I'm running SD only) then I'll be completely check engine light free :D

In-sort, the "tune" can be realistically done. As I've mentioned in earlier responses, the guess work has for the most part been figured out (on ProEFI) I would indorse this EMS, as its UI is a little different then most, but if you know how to tune a car, then it wont take long to figure out.

Also Depends on your goals to what "tune" you should go with, and if you like to constantly mod/tweak your setup, and want to spend that little extra bit on the tuning hardware that one day might save your overall investment, your engine.
 
#50 · (Edited)
Finally. Some explanation and knowledge. Which EMS from pro efi are you using? Hope you dont mind me picking your brain, im chalked full of questions.
The Pro 128 (good for up to 12 cylinders) Keep in mind the Pro 48 is for 4 cylinders. I want to help out the bmw community, unlike some whom hold the knowledge for profit or personal reasons I encourage modding.

What is this patch harness you speak of? They have a pre-made harness for the M3 application, but the pinout is different for MS43/5. MS45 is especially different due to the wideband O2.

With respect to idle control, was the car running well with the DME controlling idle and throttle, or did you have to move throttle to ProEFI for it to work at all? The other important piece of this was at what point did you remove the MAF, as the DME is going to be quite unhappy without it. Speed density is a fallback strategy for most manufacturers, and thus part of "limp home mode."

I'd be very interested in how you rate drivability after you get the MAF simulator hooked up. That will make the DME happy, which should then ensure the cams are in the right spot, and in theory the car should drive like stock, if people tell the truth about their experiences. :)

How is startup (cranking) time versus the MS43/5? I know they were a little bit extended on the M3, I'm curious how they are here.

A cold start video + idle after the MAF simulator is in would be awesome.

Are things like iBoost control from cruise control working? You mentioned the CAN stuff has been figured out, I'm just wondering if it's pretty much the same as the M3 application, or if there are things still missing.

Thanks for sharing your experiences so far.

-Matt
Matt,

In respect of the patch harness, I meant when one acquires the M3 harness, then slightly modifying it to non-M spec (hence patch harness). Now the MS54 DME uses the same connectors, In-fact the ONLY difference is of 5 pins (according to ProEFI's pinout sheet) they are:
- camshaft position sensor input (missing from m3 harness)
- crankshaft position sensor (M3 only, non-M doesn't have one)
- knock sensor #1 + 3 return (missing from m3 harness)
- Cam sync Relay control output (M3 only)

Keep in mind this is just how Jason configured it. He left the VANOS to be controlled by the DME. Now you can use Pro EFI to take control of it, but honestly There would be little reason unless your anal, and want to potentially squeeze ever last HP out of the engine (like if your doing a high HP build)

Now about MS45, Yes I'm sure it has very slightly different pinouts, but the critical sensors/input/outputs are the same that can be verified on HERE Also, I'm not sure exactly if the 330 jason tested used a MS45 or MS43 DME, as my CAN bus had to be reverse-engineered so ProEFI can talk to the car's sensors.

I'd say the car ran well with the DME running the ICV, but the idle would be sporadic, as the DME and the EMS were fighting each other. Keep in-mind the only thing ProEFI is actually controlling is ICV, injectors, and ignition (right now at least) I removed the MAF for two reasons: oil from the turbo got in charge pipe, then got on the MAF and u know that causes the MAF to act up. 2ndly, The MAF housing is crappy to hold boost, in fact I had to separate the actual sensor from the house (since it leaked under boost) then the housing would pop off over 10lbs of boost. I didnt want to clamp down on a plastic housing to much to break it, so the hell with it. Speed density was attractive due to eliminating the restrictive MAF ( screens in-side) plus those other 2 reasons I just mentioned.

As it sits drivability is decent, but I'm very curious how it behaves with the MAF simulator, plus I continue to tweak the tune until I'm satisfied.

Startup takes just slightly longer than stock, but not a big deal.

Iboost control is not working on my car via cruise control buttons. Thats one of the things That I was thinking of tackling on. I have to reverse-engineer the CAN signals to get the correct address, Yes it can be figured out, but I'm not sure if its worth my time to get the data then figure out the pattern to an address for Jason to code it.

I just keep my boost at one setpoint. Though it would be nice to change boost targets, its just a "plus"
 
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