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Motorsports & Track Forum by BimmerWorld
From Auto-X to Trackday to Racing and Professional Motorsports – this is the place to discuss making BMWs fast Sponsored by BimmerWorld |
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#1 |
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Sponsor
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New Ultra-High Performance ALCON big brake kits!
![]() Ultra-high performance braking system ![]() World-class Alcon components, designed by UUC. Designed for the most demanding driver in racing or street use. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Alcon is a name synonymous with the manufacture and supply of high specification brakes and clutches for motorsport and high performance road vehicles.Introductory period BONUS! FREE LIMITED EDITION T-SHIRT DURING INTRODUCTORY PERIOD. Classic heavyweight t-shirt. Tagless design for ultimate comfort. Pre-shrunk, 6.1 ounce 100% cotton. Double-needle stitched bottom and sleeve hems. Loose, classic fit. Available in sizes S-3XL 1) [ CLICK HERE ] to activate coupon. 2) [ CLICK HERE ] to order shirt.
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#2 |
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Registered User
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LMAO, yet another UUC BBK? What are ya'll at, 4?
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#3 |
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Sponsor
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We make 9 types of shift knobs.
We make 10 types of exhausts. We have 47 types of wheels. We have 15 types of suspension. Why would it seem that 1 type of brake kit would be sufficient to cover all the various BMW models and the varying needs of different owners? Our new Alcon kits were planned for the latest models, specifically E90/E92/E60 that are simply bigger cars than the E46, and need even larger brakes. That fact that the E46 enjoys a "trickle down" effect and gets a new premium package is something to be glad about! - Rob |
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#4 |
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Registered User
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I don't know, it just seems that with each generation that comes out it makes it seem like you didn't do your homework on the previous kit. I don't like buying something just to find out that you're going to be releasing something better a few months later.
That's just the way I see atleast... |
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#5 | |
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Registered User
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Quote:
Would you say BMW didn't do their homework on the E36 M3 because they came out with the E46 M3? I know the time frame is longer, but we're also talking about a complete vehicle vs. a brake kit. New components are offered by UUC's vendors/partners, stuff gets discontinued, a material gets too expensive or is outlawed by the EPA, a mfg process that used to cost too much gets cheaper, blah blah blah (not to mention that BMW comes out with a completely new chassis). UUC would be doing their customers a disservice by not reacting to changes like that. In addition, from a business point of view, UUC only has so much control because they're not making the components. They have to make a deal with Alcon, a deal with a BMW supplier, a deal with Hawk, a deal with ARP, etc in order to put together the kit they think will do their customers the most good and still allow UUC to make enough $ to be worth the time. Their ability to make those deals, and the market conditions that affect demand are always changing. I get what you're saying, I don't want to buy something for $X and have something better available for $X+$1 the next day, either. But obsolecense and improvement are simply realities we all have to deal with. I haven't bought anything from UUC, nor am I a paid spokesperson (Rob? lol). But having looked around their website, they seem like a company that does A LOT of homework when they offer a product. I'd be wary about buying something from them if they HADN'T changed their product offerings in several years, cuz I'd be worried that they're not keeping up. $0.02 FWIW
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#6 | |
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Sponsor
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Quote:
Xcelratr gave a very good explanation of this type of thing in general, and there's even more to it. I'll give you the full historical view: UUC Gen1 brakes: Based on PBR 2-piston floating calipers, 2-piece rotors. Cost was around $1400 for a front axle kit. This setup performed very well, and was very popular... nothing else at the time could touch that price point. We offered this kit for about 4 years. Why did we discontinue it? Some rather shocking feedback from our customers - based on the level of technology in everything else we make, our customer base wanted a more sophisticated setup, something with a fixed 4- or 6-piston caliper. Our customers demanded more technology. UUC Gen2 brakes: co-developed with SSBC, a straightforward 4-piston fixed caliper and 2-piece rotor design. Pricepoint was about $1650 for a front axle kit. We had very good results with this kit, and even pushed SSBC into a developmental change of the caliper to make it even better. We offered this for about 3 years. However, in the end, a few significant problems caused us to discontinue it. Lack of wide pad options was a problem since inception, and quality control problems from SSBC upon initial shipment (missing parts, bad finish, leaking calipers) caused a great amount of legitimate customer resistance. UUC Gen3 brakes: developed 100% in-house using Wilwood components, these are still offered and still fantastically popular. Pricing runs from about $1000 to $1400 for a front kit. The UUC/Wilwood kits have been our best-selling brakes ever, and continue to impress with the winning race history of UUC directly and our UUC/Wilwood-equipped racer customers. We are absolutely still carrying the Wilwood kits. We've had results far beyond our expectations with the UUC/Wilwood product, both in performance and sales volume. It's a fantastic value equalling the performance of many other kits costing much more. Our race results history, both UUC directly and our UUC/Wilwood-equipped customers, speaks for itself. And now, Gen4: UUC/Alcon. An obvious follow-up question would be "Why did UUC get involved with Alcon if Wilwood is already so good?" The answer is simple; with development for the newer generations of BMW, particularly E90/E92 and the new E92 M3, as well as E60 5-series and M5, we could not support those needs with Wilwood. Wilwood does not have caliper offerings suitable for the rotor sizes we need for the newer cars. As you can see from the UUC website catalog, the biggest rotor we use with Wilwood is 348mm. For the 335i, that's the same size as the original rotor... clearly we had reached the size limitations and had to look elsewhere. The Alcon components, on the other hand, really are in a league of their own. As described above, Alcon's experience with high-end racing is unparalleled, and our in-house experience and testing shows them to be unlike anything else we've ever used. We have experience with all the major brands of BBK, of course... but the pedal feel, feedback, and general caliper response (both in clamp and release) blows the rest of them out of the water. Without sounding like too much hype, I genuinely believe that you would have to experience them to appreciate the difference. Not only that, but as the development and sub-component manufacture is done directly by UUC, we're able to offer the Alcon kits at extremely competitive pricing. See this page for a comparison: http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/ALCON/costs.htm The fact that our very first offerings using the Alcon calipers appears to be interchangeable with our Wilwood offerings in application and even rotor size is coincidental... we had the ability to offer the Alcons for the very popular E36/E46 race platform use (and that's what we actively campaign), so it was obvious to do that in addition to the larger-chassis offerings. The Alcon calipers will also let us offer an upgrade to a front 345mm rotor for the E46 3-series, as well as a 6-piston variation. We opened with the 4-piston setup as race rules for BMW Prepared classes (and for other sanctioning bodies) limit calipers to 4 pistons. With UUC's level of race support, the 4-piston is the most important to our large group of racer customers. I hope that helps clear things up! - Rob |
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#7 |
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Registered User
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wow this is really nice....love the temperture thingy...so far everything i have gotten from you guys have been great...a little pricey on some stuff ..but like they say...you get what you pay for...i have at least 5 UUC items installed in my car
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#8 |
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Banned
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I always thought it was funny that Arjun's car has ALCONzzz but UUC pushes the Wilwood kit. Guess its fair now
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#9 | |
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Sponsor
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Quote:
- Rob |
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#10 | |
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Registered User
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...and no Rob, do not jump on my ass, it was a joke between Ashley and myself. Actually, I hate to admit it, the Alcon's look like a good kit. Never liked any of the past UUC BBKs or any other products since the orginal Rob Knob, wayyyyy back when.
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#11 |
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Registered User
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Xcelratr... spot on correct. Good post.
As for the actual product, that temperature gauge is very very neat. How does it work exactly? Obviously its not a powered temperature gauge so I'm just curious how it actually works. Is it pulling the temperature from the caliper housing or from the pad (or just behind it, rather). It sort of looks like a thermometers my mom used to slap on my head and it'd light up as it heated up to a given temperature. I wonder if its the same tech. Anywho... very neat offering. I can definitely see myself throwing these on down the line.
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#12 | |
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Sponsor
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Quote:
It shows max temperature reached, but does not reset... so it needs to be replaced. Replacements are included with the kit and available directly from UUC or Alcon at any time. - Rob |
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#13 | |
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Registered User
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Quote:
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#14 | |
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Sponsor
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Yes, that's the exact idea! - Rob |
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#15 |
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Registered User
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What I said earlier, " it just seems that with each generation that comes out it makes it seem like you didn't do your homework on the previous kit", still holds true to me in my own mind(it's just MY opinion, you don't have to agree with it). After all, you just admitted the shortcoming of the previous generations. As far as I know the Alcon calipers you're now using were available at the time you started making the Wilwoods, so why didn't you use them then? Are the Wilwood/UUC kits for the E46 still in production or will you be phasing them out?
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#16 | |||
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Sponsor
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Quote:
Gen1 had no shortcomings, but our customers wanted an even higher level. Gen2 worked very well, but developed problems with the supplier. Gen3 is still for sale and will continue to be for sale. We still support all of these with replacement rotors and pads, no customers are ever left with a problem. Quote:
Working directly with Alcon, all calipers used by UUC for the BMW fitments are custom-built "bespoke" components, specifically designed to retain perfect brake bias and a firm pedal. That means these calipers have unique piston sizes, spec'd by UUC. Other Alcon calipers we use in other fitments have many other custom features, including different pad shapes... all spec'd by UUC. Also as explained, the move to Alcon was to support the newer, larger BMWs, something we could not do with Wilwood. There is no crossover between Wilwood and these larger fitments, and the only Alcon crossover is the 3-series. It's not a replacement, it's an alternative. Quote:
- Rob |
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#17 | |
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Registered User
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Quote:
I did read you previous post, you said "these are still offered and still fantastically popular". Something can be out of production and still be offered, until you sell out of them that is. I believe at one point you were simultaneously selling the SSBC and Wilwood kits. "It's not a replacement, it's an alternative." Ok, thanks, that's what I wanted to know. -Greg Last edited by vaio76109; 01-05-2008 at 03:15 PM. |
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#18 | |||
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Sponsor
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Quote:
Quote:
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- Rob |
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#19 |
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Banned
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questions:
1) for the e46, what are the calipers position in relations to the rotors (ie..3 o;clock) 2) for wheel clearance purposes, what are the dimension of the calipers? |
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#20 | ||
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Sponsor
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Quote:
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http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/alcon/I...R_4POT_325.pdf Simply print out the diagram lifesize (1:1 in your printer settings), glue it to a piece of cardboard for stiffness, and then cut out the profile. You can then fit it into your wheel to see if there is interference, and also to figure out what size spacers you might need. - Rob |
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