E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Motorsports & Track Forum

Motorsports & Track Forum
From Auto-X to Trackday to Racing and Professional Motorsports this is the place to discuss making BMWs fast

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 03-22-2010, 10:17 AM   #1
SpeedDemon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,939
My Ride: 08 M3/05 ZHP/08 R32
Question Oil Cooler Necessary

I'm going to continue tracking my 330 a lot more this summer and I'm wondering at what point an oil cooler is usually necessary.

I'm considering adding gauges so I can monitor oil temp, but I'm curious if its even possible to overheat the M54 in stock form doing advanced group HPDEs?

For those that have ran data acquisition or even gauges, what does it take to get the oil temps too hot on the M54?

If I do go with an oil cooler setup then what do you guys think of this Euro Style Racing Oil Cooler Kit from VAC Motorsports.

Thanks!
SpeedDemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 03-22-2010, 01:37 PM   #2
mrshelley
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 916
My Ride: 2004 330i
That system will probably do the trick. I use the M54 BMW Motorsport housing, some AN-10 lines, and a Setrab cooler. I do suggest ditching the SS braided lines for something that's much easier to fabricate and route. I've been using Earls Pro-Lite 350 and then wrapping it with Russell Wrap-It Wire & Hose Protection.

Without an oil cooler, I was running around 280-300F oil temps. With the cooler, it's 220-230F. I even have my oil cooler mounted behind the radiator, so if it's in front, you will probably see something less than I do.
__________________
mrshelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 01:55 PM   #3
SpeedDemon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,939
My Ride: 08 M3/05 ZHP/08 R32
Do you think that I can get up to 280-300F in 30 minutes of being out on track?

Also, what are considered "bad temperature ranges" or "danger temperature ranges"?

What would be considered and optimal temperature range?

Thanks!!!
SpeedDemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:28 PM   #4
McSpeed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,073
My Ride: 2005 ZHP TT Stg 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedDemon View Post
Do you think that I can get up to 280-300F in 30 minutes of being out on track?

Also, what are considered "bad temperature ranges" or "danger temperature ranges"?

What would be considered and optimal temperature range?
This thread is bursting with relevant info :
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...hlight=stewart
__________________


SOLD but fondly remembered...
Technique Tuning Stage 1 Turbo w/ Greddy Profec B Spec II | 3.07 Quaife
ATI Super Damper | Vaio Oil Pump | VAC Pan Baffle | SRE Organic Clutch
Turner Reinforcements | SPC Camber Arms | Powerflex FCABs & SFBs

Turbo Driveability Video

Horsepower vs. Torque

Last edited by McSpeed; 03-22-2010 at 03:30 PM.
McSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 06:02 PM   #5
ChasCan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,066
My Ride: 2001 330xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedDemon View Post
Do you think that I can get up to 280-300F in 30 minutes of being out on track?

Also, what are considered "bad temperature ranges" or "danger temperature ranges"?

What would be considered and optimal temperature range?

Thanks!!!
From my track experience, oil temp should run no more than about 50-60 deg above coolant temp. Chas
ChasCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:00 PM   #6
SpeedDemon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,939
My Ride: 08 M3/05 ZHP/08 R32
I called and talked to VAC and it sounds like it will be a pain to make their kit work with the factory power steering pump and reservoir; they suggested using an older E36 PS pump but it sounds like even that needs a custom bracket made and possibly even a custom reservoir. It sounds like a factory M54 piece would be a much better idea if it can be made to work on a dual-purpose street/track car like mine so... I took a look at the Motorsport M54 Oil Filter Housing on Turner's website and it is a pretty slick unit, but I definitely have some questions...

1. What parts would be needed to make the OE sensors work?
2. Does it have a thermostat in it like the OE S50B30 oil filter housing does? Will this thermostat still work well for a street car application or is there anything wrong with using it for that?
3. Anything else you can think of that I should know about?

Here are some pictures that I got while making some phone calls and doing some research:





For comparison's sake this is what the stock housing looks like:


Last edited by SpeedDemon; 03-22-2010 at 03:04 PM.
SpeedDemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 10:52 AM   #7
lowrider
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Los Alamitos, CA
Posts: 702
My Ride: modified 323Ci
Send a message via AIM to lowrider
Gonna revive this old thread because I have a question. Looking at the TMS oil filter housing with the two 10-AN fittings installed in it, is it important to use one as a supply and the other as a return? Basically, is there a direction of flow?

I am gonna be pulling my oil filter housing to replace the gasket and might as well machine in some fittings for future oil cooler.

__________________
Photobucket

Picture courtesy of EAS
lowrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 09:06 PM   #8
MasterC17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 585
My Ride: hates A/C & Sunroofs
For reference I was getting to about 265f on my oil after only 25 minutes at NHMS (78f ambient). I didn't notice any loss in power but I wasn't really paying attention to power all that much. Although the non-m's shouldn't 'need it' if you plan on tracking the car regularly I believe it is a sound investment.
MasterC17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 03:21 PM   #9
mrshelley
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 916
My Ride: 2004 330i
If you are going to run a cooler, does it really make a difference which way it flows?
__________________
mrshelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2011, 04:26 PM   #10
lowrider
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Los Alamitos, CA
Posts: 702
My Ride: modified 323Ci
Send a message via AIM to lowrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrshelley View Post
If you are going to run a cooler, does it really make a difference which way it flows?
My point is, I want to make sure it flows and not just sit inside the piping of the cooler haha
__________________
Photobucket

Picture courtesy of EAS
lowrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 01:30 PM   #11
MasterC17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 585
My Ride: hates A/C & Sunroofs
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrider View Post
Gonna revive this old thread because I have a question. Looking at the TMS oil filter housing with the two 10-AN fittings installed in it, is it important to use one as a supply and the other as a return? Basically, is there a direction of flow?

I am gonna be pulling my oil filter housing to replace the gasket and might as well machine in some fittings for future oil cooler.

Does someone mind answering this, I don't want to screw it up. I'm guessing the old oil pressure port is supply and the fittings next to the old temperature sensor port is return?
MasterC17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 10:37 AM   #12
MasterC17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 585
My Ride: hates A/C & Sunroofs
Late, I know, but I finally got down to the machine shop, will have the ofh back sometime next week. Already have the cooler and lines.
MasterC17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 03:29 PM   #13
BMWespresso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 1,563
My Ride: 2005 325CI
yes, yes
__________________
BMWespresso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 04:34 PM   #14
mrshelley
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 916
My Ride: 2004 330i
Here's what I do. I use that machined port for the oil pressure sensor (I use a different oil pressure sensor because I run an AIM dash) but the oil temp sensor needs to be relocated in the bottom of the pan using Turners adapter that replaces the oil level sensor. You'll need to extend the wires to that sensor. I just live with the oil level light going off every time the car is started. Also, to make that housing fit, you need to buy some M6X1.0 threaded rod from McMaster Carr and a M6X1.0 Jet nut from a place like Pegasus.

You have to remember, parts like these are motorsport parts and not some bolt on unit designed for the general consumer. As long as you take a bit of responsibility on your own, they will work.
__________________
mrshelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2010, 05:52 PM   #15
SpeedDemon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,939
My Ride: 08 M3/05 ZHP/08 R32
Does the Motorsport housing have a built-in thermostat or would I have to run one inline?

Do you think that I could just use one of VAC's Inline Oil Sensor Manifolds to get the Oil temp and pressure off that single outlet on the Motorsport filter housing (to the OE sensors)?


Last edited by SpeedDemon; 03-22-2010 at 05:58 PM.
SpeedDemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 02:42 AM   #16
Mr Paddle.Shift
PhD Mech. Eng.
 
Mr Paddle.Shift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: By that double apexes
Posts: 2,131
My Ride: B3 epsilon
I have been logging oil temps for a while now and under all kinds of track conditions. What kind of ambient temps are you seeing at your track events? I will see if I can dig out something from my archive (along with corresponding coolant, IAT, RPM). to give you an idea. Of course other conditions apply, ie car setup, driving style, etc.

Some time last year, I decided to do this study. Might give you an idea on where to install the sensor too.
__________________

Technik Engineering ASA Stage 1.
Supercharged E46 M54B25.
2011 NASA TTC So Cal Champion!
Track blog.
Technik Engineering oil cap o-ring maintenance kit available.
Mr Paddle.Shift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 09:11 AM   #17
mrshelley
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 916
My Ride: 2004 330i
I'll put it to you this way. The hotter the oil gets (above 230) the engine makes less power. I found out the hard way back around 2003. We'd run a race and the drivers would start to complain after an hour that the engine was losing power. We'd start to notice that there would be a trail of black smoke under deceleration (i.e. going into turn one at Daytona). What I've found out is that the ECU is trying to save the engine by dumping more fuel in it and backing off on the ignition timing. The engine would lose power in about 40 minutes if we ran the stock radiator fan and shroud.

As long as the outside air temp was below 60 deg F, then the car seemed to be OK but then that all depended on the track. Places like Trois Rivieres were the worst as you never get enough straight line speed thus not enough air flow. When we would come in for a pit stop, it was not uncommon to see a small puddle of water under the car when it would leave. Some teams have tried bigger radiators and it would help but not as much as an oil cooler did.

The oil temp sensor does need to register the oil temp. If not, the ECU is confused and the engine will make less power. If you unhook the oil temp sensor, the engine uses about 30% more fuel and will even shoot flames out the tail pipe under deceleration followed by a big ol' backfire. It looks kewl but not something you really want to do.
__________________
mrshelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 10:48 AM   #18
SpeedDemon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,939
My Ride: 08 M3/05 ZHP/08 R32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Paddle.Shift View Post
I have been logging oil temps for a while now and under all kinds of track conditions. What kind of ambient temps are you seeing at your track events? I will see if I can dig out something from my archive (along with corresponding coolant, IAT, RPM). to give you an idea. Of course other conditions apply, ie car setup, driving style, etc.

Some time last year, I decided to do this study. Might give you an idea on where to install the sensor too.
Being in the pacific northwest means that I see a huge range of temperatures. The car will be out on track anywhere between 50F to 105F. The average will be closer to between 65F to 85F.
SpeedDemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 10:50 AM   #19
SpeedDemon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,939
My Ride: 08 M3/05 ZHP/08 R32
@mrshelley, Any thoughts on my questions about whether the Motorsport unit has a thermostat, and if it doesn't, if it would be possible to use an inline thermostat with it? Also, would it be possible to use a distribution block like the one I posted above to get pressure and temperature from the same 10x1.0 hole?
SpeedDemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2010, 04:16 PM   #20
mrshelley
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 916
My Ride: 2004 330i
It doesn't have a thermostat. An inline one would work. You could use that distribution block but I'd still go with the pressure sensor in the housing and the temp sensor in the pan. I am not a fan of adding distribution blocks. Just so you know, it's a really tight fit where the lines come out of the back of that housing. I have a pic sitting around somewhere of what it looks like on my car (the lines running to the housing). Let me look for it and I'll post it.
__________________
mrshelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use