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Old 01-07-2011, 10:21 AM   #1
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Please help an audio-noob

Guys, I got my Dynavin in the mail yesterday and I want to upgrade my speakers too. I want to change out all of them, including the one's under the rear deck.

My car right now has an HK system.

I know I should order from Madisound but I really don't know what to get. I don't understand any of the terms you guys are using (components, drivers, etc).

I don't need anything fancy, just direct replacements (I know I'll have to fab them a bit to fit) with better sound quality.

On my old Jetta I upgraded to an alpine headunit and changed the 4 door speakers to Infinitys and was very happy. What can I get from Madisound for my 330 that could be comparable to that setup with a Dynavin V5?
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:14 AM   #2
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If I was in the States, I'd be looking at Bavarian Soundwerks' Stage one kit for $600. Plug n' play.

http://www.bavsound.com/
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:20 AM   #3
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^^^good advice.

$600 may seem like a lot but when you consider the time it will save you.....it is worth every penny.
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:28 PM   #4
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haha I should have mentioned, I don't want to spend BSW money. I really don't mind the time involved with it. I was thinking $200 MAX. I'm accustomed to my Best Buy employee discount I used to have, which was basically close to wholesale cost. I don't have that discount anymore so I'm hoping I can find similar deals elsewhere.
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:38 PM   #5
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The E46 is a VERY challenging car to get good sound out of and requires extensive installation as you cant really just replace pieces of the system, you pretty much have to do the whole thing....you cant really use the stock amp with aftermarket speakers and get good results....and without cutting holes in the doors its hard to get decent midbass out of the front speakers, browse through the links thread:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=391974

you will see there are no DIYs for "I just want to replace my speakers" This is why BSW exists.....if you could just put any aftermarket speaker in an E46 and get good results we wouldnt have a need for BSW.

Anyway....if you are an audio noob the E46 is a pretty challenging place to start!
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:33 PM   #6
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Is the dynavin not pre-amped?
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:33 AM   #7
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Is the dynavin not pre-amped?
It says it is... So I don't know why anyone here is suggesting BSW... probably because they are a sponsor.
If you're installing a Dynavin, then it's no longer a plug and play project - which is what the BSW was intended for, so then really... buying the Dynavin (in my opinion) defeats the purpose of pairing it with the BSW set...

So...

The Dynavin manual says the Dynavin has an "integrated 50 watt * 4 channel amplifier". Which, just like any other aftermarket head unit, means that you should be able to power the speakers from the Dynavin itself.

In this case you should be able to use any component or coaxial speaker sets as long as they mount into the car properly. You don't need to worry about the factory amplifiers and whether or not they are Harmon Kardon package as you will now be using the Dynavin's amplifier.

Just try looking for a set of 6.5" component speakers for the front that are within your budget, that are around 50 watts power handling.
As for the term "components" that you do not understand: it is just the type of speaker set where the tweeter is not mounted on the same axis as the woofer. The alternate is a "coaxial" speaker set, where the tweeter (small cone, for high frequencies) IS mounted in the center (on the same axis) as the woofer. You could probably buy a set of Coaxial speakers for the rear, although you should measure the mounting depth to see if it fits first.

The advantage of Components is that the sound quality is generally better, and the tweeter and woofer are mounted individually in separate locations - which is ideal for the front speakers in the e46 as the Woofer is mounted low in the door, and the tweeter is up by the door handle behind the little mesh cover.

The advantage of Coaxials is that they are cheaper and simpler and will be more than sufficient for a rear fill in a budget setup.

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Old 01-08-2011, 12:21 PM   #8
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It says it is... So I don't know why anyone here is suggesting BSW... probably because they are a sponsor.
If you're installing a Dynavin, then it's no longer a plug and play project - which is what the BSW was intended for, so then really... buying the Dynavin (in my opinion) defeats the purpose of pairing it with the BSW set...

So...

The Dynavin manual says the Dynavin has an "integrated 50 watt * 4 channel amplifier". Which, just like any other aftermarket head unit, means that you should be able to power the speakers from the Dynavin itself.

In this case you should be able to use any component or coaxial speaker sets as long as they mount into the car properly. You don't need to worry about the factory amplifiers and whether or not they are Harmon Kardon package as you will now be using the Dynavin's amplifier.

Just try looking for a set of 6.5" component speakers for the front that are within your budget, that are around 50 watts power handling.
As for the term "components" that you do not understand: it is just the type of speaker set where the tweeter is not mounted on the same axis as the woofer. The alternate is a "coaxial" speaker set, where the tweeter (small cone, for high frequencies) IS mounted in the center (on the same axis) as the woofer. You could probably buy a set of Coaxial speakers for the rear, although you should measure the mounting depth to see if it fits first.

The advantage of Components is that the sound quality is generally better, and the tweeter and woofer are mounted individually in separate locations - which is ideal for the front speakers in the e46 as the Woofer is mounted low in the door, and the tweeter is up by the door handle behind the little mesh cover.

The advantage of Coaxials is that they are cheaper and simpler and will be more than sufficient for a rear fill in a budget setup.
hey man thanks so much for that response. Is the 50watts enough power though or would you recommend a slightly better standalone amp? I don't plan on putting any subs in the car, but I do want to replace the speakers in the doors and under the rear glass. I probably won't touch the tiny tweeters in the front top corners of the front doors.
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:29 AM   #9
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hey man thanks so much for that response. Is the 50watts enough power though or would you recommend a slightly better standalone amp? I don't plan on putting any subs in the car, but I do want to replace the speakers in the doors and under the rear glass. I probably won't touch the tiny tweeters in the front top corners of the front doors.
Power doesn't always equal volume - the sensitivity (among other things) plays a significant part in the speakers volume output.

50 watts by 4 channels is about the standard for aftermarket head units nowadays - it will be plenty to power some aftermarket speakers, and more than enough to make a great improvement over the old and dead factory speakers. Especially if you're not planning on a subwoofer (which would require re-wiring + standalone amplifier) then its not all that necessary to have loads of power. Your goal should be to get some good branded speakers that have a power rating that will match the head unit and that also have a good reputation. (Don't get no-name Hong-Kong eBay specials)

Just aim for some speakers that have spec's with around 50 watts RMS rating. They don't have to be 50wRMS exactly, as power ratings often differ between manufacturers. Anything that sort of in the 40 - 65 watt area will be fine.

If you get 100watt speakers, and power them with only 50watts, they will not be as loud as the standard speakers. Higher power handling speakers are designed with stiffer and heavier cone materials and are paired with much more powerful magnets. The result is that they can handle more power and will distort/deform less as they push higher sound pressures. If your head unit will not have the power to make them get up and boogie, while they'll still sound miles better than the factory speakers, they won't be as loud as what you've got now.


As far as I know, the speakers you are talking about in the front door corners (on a four door) are the factory tweeters - you WILL want to replace these, trust me. If you're going to spend the money to get a set of component speakers, you will not do them justice by only replacing the woofer in the set.

Component sets are designed such that the woofer and tweeter are engineered/designed to play well together, and the crossover that comes with them will also be designed with this as the goal. Not to mention that you will have power differences between the small and large speakers which may damage the factory tweeter. For the extra 30 minutes maybe that it will take to remove the old ones and put in the new ones, it will be well worth it.

I haven't looked into it, but I'm sure you could just pop out the old tweeters and fix the new ones into the same housing, as they should be relatively the same size (around 40mm or so), if not, it shouldn't be hard to make some kind of makeshift mount for them.

As far as wiring goes, when you are running a system powered entirely by the head unit, then its pretty simple. You won't have to wire up ground, 12v, remote wire and speaker wire to a bunch of amps at the opposite end of you're car. Because the amplifier is integrated in the head unit, all you do is connect up the head unit like any other... by simply getting the colour codes from the old unit, and mapping out which wires do what, then matching them to the wires on the new head unit and connecting it together.

Then just run the speaker output wires from the head unit to each corner/channel of the car, and connect them to the crossover boxes for the component sets. Then connect the tweeter + woofer to each crossover box and your done.

Without standalone amps, you don't need to run 10+ wires back and forth through your car - everything is sourced and distributed from the head unit.

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Old 01-08-2011, 06:13 AM   #10
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Yup. You can always just buy speakers that fit in the holes. And cross your fingers that they won't foul anywhere, or need custom mounts etc. And then just re-wire all your speaker cabling. That's always an option.

For me, a ready made drop-in kit that won't need modification, fettling and experimentation to get it to work, (including incoporating the BMW amp) will always get the nod. After all, that's why I bought a Dynavin in the first place.

But, yes, it can be done cheaper... in return for a fair amount of work, research and experimentation.

It's dictated by your budget and enthusiasm I guess.
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Old 01-08-2011, 10:16 AM   #11
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I have no affiliation with BSW nor have I even used their products, the reason I recommended them is because the E46 has non standard speaker mounts requiring custom mounting, the OP CAN run the new speakers off the dynavin BUT this would require hacking all the factory wiring to bypass as well. None of this is a problem for a typical installer but the OP said he knows nothing about car audio, custom speaker mounts, crossovers, and rewiring every speaker in the car is a bit much for a self described "audio-noob".

I have done all of the above and it is not for the inexperienced but if you want to give yourself a project, are willing to do your homework, and are not afraid to cut on your car, go for it....
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:17 PM   #12
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I have no affiliation with BSW nor have I even used their products, the reason I recommended them is because the E46 has non standard speaker mounts requiring custom mounting, the OP CAN run the new speakers off the dynavin BUT this would require hacking all the factory wiring to bypass as well. None of this is a problem for a typical installer but the OP said he knows nothing about car audio, custom speaker mounts, crossovers, and rewiring every speaker in the car is a bit much for a self described "audio-noob".

I have done all of the above and it is not for the inexperienced but if you want to give yourself a project, are willing to do your homework, and are not afraid to cut on your car, go for it....
Sorry Jeff, I didn't mean to sound like I knew absolutely nothing about installation. On my old car I had to custom mount the speakers into the door and sodder the wires myself which wasn't too difficult. As song as I can do the same with the e46, I should be fine.

I mean't audio-noob as in I felt like there was tons of stuff that I don't understand about amps and general wiring setups on non-pre-amped systems, and all this sound equalization stuff.

But to reconfirm, should I be able to cut and re-sodder the connections off the old HK speakers onto the new speakers and plug them into the harness in the doors? This will work? I somehow got the impression that even the wiring inside the car was HK specific.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:29 PM   #13
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1) A pre amp is a device that sits before a power amp. It usually controls the volume setting, tone controls and source selection. Its outputs are called pre-outs and usually use RCA sockets to connect to the power amp.

2) The power amp is just a block of amplification and a large heatsink.

3) The HK amp runs from a speaker level input signal. The BMW factory arrangement is then [Pre and power amp in headunit] + HK power amp.

4) The HK system sees the crossovers integrated into the HK amp. Therefore the woofer, midrange and tweeter have their own connections through the door hinge.

5) The speaker mounts are very shallow, very few aftermarket speakers will fit without cutting a hole in the inner door metal for the magnet to poke through.

6) The speakers use 3 fixing points mounted at non-geometric angles.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:10 AM   #14
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I would think that it's easier to simply run new wires to the front speakers. Since they are only connecting to/from the head unit, you will only need to run them under the dash on both sides and feed it through the door.

I'm not entirely sure how your factory stereo is setup. Over here some of our cars come with speakers that got power from the head unit, and on other cars they were connected to the amp in the boot. If your current setup has the front speakers connected directly to the head unit, then yes you can chop out the old head unit + speakers and attach the new head unit and speakers right back on. If your car is wired to get power for the speakers from an amplifier mounted in the trunk, then no, you cannot just cut and solder the new components on as they will be wired to the amp in the boot (which you will no longer be using).

As for the part about the crossover, I'm not sure how the BMW one works (I haven't yet bothered researching or looking at it), but for your component system you will want to set it up like this:

- From Front Left & Right outputs on the headunit, you will run 1 set of paired wires for each side.
- Connect each pair of these Left/Right wires to the inputs of each crossover box (it will be labeled).
- From each crossover box you will then need to run 2 sets of speaker cable per side.
- Each crossover will have 1 pair of input terminals (to receive the power from the head unit), and 2 pairs of output terminals: one to connect the tweeter, and one to connect the woofer.

The head unit sends a full range signal to the crossover box - and the crossover splits the full range between the high tweeter and the mid/low woofer. As the crossover is designed for the speakers it will have a circuit inside that is optimized to best split the high frequencies and the mid/low frequencies such that each of the tweeter and woofer is playing their part of the spectrum to the best of their ability. All you need to do is get the amplified signal from the head unit and attach it to the crossover, and then attach the speakers to the output from the crossover.


If you have three speakers, then you probably have the Harmon Kardon setup I'm assuming. In this case, since you will have only 2 speakers, you can choose which of the two to mount the tweeter in. Once you do, disconnect the factory speaker that you don't remove. You will not want any of the old speakers powered once you install the new ones.

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Old 01-11-2011, 02:57 AM   #15
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This may make things a little clearer......

No Amp - Wiring from headunit to crossovers and speakers



With Amp - Wiring from headunit to Amp to crossovers and speakers

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Old 01-11-2011, 12:12 PM   #16
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The head unit sends a full range signal to the crossover box - and the crossover splits the full range between the high tweeter and the mid/low woofer. As the crossover is designed for the speakers it will have a circuit inside that is optimized to best split the high frequencies and the mid/low frequencies such that each of the tweeter and woofer is playing their part of the spectrum to the best of their ability. All you need to do is get the amplified signal from the head unit and attach it to the crossover, and then attach the speakers to the output from the crossover.


If you have three speakers, then you probably have the Harmon Kardon setup I'm assuming. In this case, since you will have only 2 speakers, you can choose which of the two to mount the tweeter in. Once you do, disconnect the factory speaker that you don't remove. You will not want any of the old speakers powered once you install the new ones.
Correct I have the HK system. As I mentioned in response to Darkoz, right now all the original HK speakers are working with the Dynavin headunit, which if I'm understanding correctly is bypassing the factory HK amp.

In either case it seems like I don't have to deal with a secondary amp, which I wouldn't want to anyways since I have no intentions of using a sub box.

I'll direct the same question to you as I did to Darkoz regarding the crossovers. Is the Dynavin, the way it is plugged into the harness at the moment not taking care of the crossovers? I believe it is, since they're working as they did with the stock single cd headunit.

So I think I can just attach the new speakers.

But one piece of clarification, it's actually 3 speakers in each front door. 2 in the door panel/ door card, and top.

Here's a pic. Id be wanting to replace the lower two, and leave the top corner one as is.


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Old 01-11-2011, 03:36 AM   #17
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Perfect! Thank you Darkoz.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:05 PM   #18
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Alright, on the "no amp" diagram... why are the crossover boxes necessary?

That is what confuses me.

What is their purpose if my new headunit is already in and the current speakers are working and I just want to replace them with better speakers?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:22 PM   #19
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No, you have it all wrong, but thats ok, ill go easy on you

crossovers split the sound up between speakers of different sizes, sending high frequencies to the tweeters, middle frequencies to the mids, and low frequencies to the woofers.

In the oem setup these crossovers are in the factory amp, the signal from the headunit is split up and appropriate signals sent out the the correct speakers.

Installing the dynavin changes none of this, it just takes the place of the factory headunit.

There are lots of technical reasons why you cant just go changing speakers, in layman's terms they are "matched" to the amp, they have the appropriate frequency response, power handling, and resistance (known as ohm rating) etc...

This is why I suggested BSW, they have engineered their speakers to work with the factory amp and they ARE matched to the oem stuff.

So if you were to change over to aftermarket speakers and run them off of the dynavin you would need to bypapss the oem amp and install your own aftermarket crossovers, these typically would come with the speakers if you got a component set.

Also none of this addresses the issue of physically mounting the speakers, which are all non standard sizes with non standard mounting holes so you would have to custom build mounts etc.... Ive done it plenty of times and have this setup in my own car, it is not for the faint hearted.....

clear? clear as mud?
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:30 PM   #20
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No, you have it all wrong, but thats ok, ill go easy on you

crossovers split the sound up between speakers of different sizes, sending high frequencies to the tweeters, middle frequencies to the mids, and low frequencies to the woofers.

In the oem setup these crossovers are in the factory amp, the signal from the headunit is split up and appropriate signals sent out the the correct speakers.

Installing the dynavin changes none of this, it just takes the place of the factory headunit.

There are lots of technical reasons why you cant just go changing speakers, in layman's terms they are "matched" to the amp, they have the appropriate frequency response, power handling, and resistance (known as ohm rating) etc...

This is why I suggested BSW, they have engineered their speakers to work with the factory amp and they ARE matched to the oem stuff.

So if you were to change over to aftermarket speakers and run them off of the dynavin you would need to bypapss the oem amp and install your own aftermarket crossovers, these typically would come with the speakers if you got a component set.

Also none of this addresses the issue of physically mounting the speakers, which are all non standard sizes with non standard mounting holes so you would have to custom build mounts etc.... Ive done it plenty of times and have this setup in my own car, it is not for the faint hearted.....

clear? clear as mud?
I'm fine with custom mounting the speakers to fit. Now for that OEM amp... where's it located in the car so I can figure out all this wiring to bypass it?
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