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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 01-25-2012, 02:03 PM   #1
Tony3series
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My Ride: 2003 325Ci (5-speed)
Gripforce F1 Racing Stage 2 clutch & lightweight flywheel

I know there are other posts out there like this one, but I figured I would post up my experiences here. This includes my shopping list. I will add to it if there is anything else I missed, things I wish I wouldve done different, or anything else needed for install. Might help someone else down the line...

As the title states F1 Racing Stage 2 clutch & lightweight flywheel was just delivered today. Clutch has been slipping like a motha so time for a new one. I know I only have a 325ci, but I plan to eventually boost. Figured it's better to upgrade this now since it's broken anyway.

E-bay auction. Listed at $475 but I used the "make an offer" option and got it for significantly less. Took a little going back and forth with offer/counter-offer. Just a tip, you can get it for even less, even though it's already a pretty good deal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/F1-STAGE-2-R...item51936051a6

Hopefully these pics aren't to ginormous, if they are I will resize them when I get some time...

-Pressure plate made by LUK

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachm...1&d=1327518510

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachm...1&d=1327518510

-Stage 2 clutch disc carbon/kevlar

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachm...1&d=1327518510

-Lightweight chromoly flywheel (on my regular scale at home it weighed in at 16.5 lbs. Not exactly as accurate as say a shipping scale but figured I'd post that info anyway)

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachm...1&d=1327518510

-Throw out bearing (seemed kinda cheap, glad I bought OEM throwout bearing from SACHS off Pelican Parts)

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachm...1&d=1327518510

-Pilot bearing (heard bad things about the one coming with this kit failing so I bought OEM one from Pelican parts as well.)

Here's a pic of the SACHS throw out bearing. If you notice in the two different pictures the SACHS throwout bearing isn't just flopping around loosely like the one that came with the kit. I was surprised but there was a big difference. SACHS throwout bearing was tight, and spun smoothly. Felt solid. (The throwout bearing that came with kit seemed like junk. The inside piece that spins just hung down loose as you can see in pictures above. Didn't feel like it spun smooth at all.)

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachm...1&d=1327518510

SACHS throwout bearing on right. One that came with kit on left.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachm...1&d=1327518942

Pics of everything together that came with kit.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachm...1&d=1327518942

Pic of extra stuff I bought. Might as well replace some of this stuff while you're in there.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachm...1&d=1327518942

List of things I bought in addition to what came with kit.

-Redline D4 synthetic ATF transmission fluid along with Redline 75W140NS The magic combo is supposed to help reduce rattle/"chatter" that can come along with a light weight flywheel. See more info here. http://www.nexternal.com/uuc/articles/reduce_rattle.htm

-1 Crankshaft seal part# 11-14-2-249-533
- 1 "clutch release bearing"=throwout bearing part# 21-51-7-521-471
- 1 transmission Input Shaft seal part # 23-12-1-222-972
- 1 shifter selector rod seal part # 23-12-1-282-394
- 1 Guide sleeve for throwout bearing. I heard these can wear out and cause even new throwout bearings to stick and wear prematurely so figured I'd replace. Part # 23-11-7-510-016
- 6 Pressure plate bolts. part# 07-11-9-906-045
- 1 Pivot pin part # 21-51-1-223-328
- 1 Spring clip for clutch assembly Part # 21-51-7-570-284-M9 (somehow forgot to add to my order, will have to go to dealership to pick up the stupid thing)
- 1 Pilot bearing part # 11-21-1-720-310-M296
I pieced the above together from the Pelican Parts "Clutch Super Kits". I didn't need the new clutch from the kit obviously, and didn't think it necessary to replace the slave cylinder so I skipped some stuff from the kit. Here's a link to them if you want to order all the parts that they include in the super kit. http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...3%29%2C%20Each

I am not 100% sure that the shop installing this will need every last part I ordered but I'd rather have them just in case they have to tear into something else once they get in there.

I am still waiting on a pilot bearing to arrive. Hopefully it will get here today or tomorrow. Then I will take all this stuff to my local shop and have them throw it in. I normally try to DIY everything but I currently have no garage, and it's about 20 degrees out in Michigan so I will save my knuckles this time and have the shop do it.

Like I said I will update this post with how everything goes and if there is anything I would do different. Hopefully install at shop will go smooth. I''ll update first impressions and how it's going after recommended 500 mile break in period.

Edited to say, this is the list I used for my 325ci. Be sure to verify that you have the correct parts for your year, build month, make, model etc. Part numbers do change. You are responsible for any work done to your car or parts ordered. Do your homework.
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Last edited by Tony3series; 01-29-2012 at 08:47 PM. Reason: To include waiver.
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:20 PM   #2
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Nice DIY! Keep us how it works out for you
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:15 PM   #3
sunnyjay
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Enjoy your new clutch setup. I have the stage 1 clutch from gripeforce. I do have clutch chatter because my clutch disc is unsprung. I use both bearings that came with the clutch kit and I dont have issues with them. Im going onto 4,000 miles without issues. I will post back here once I have issues.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:00 PM   #4
xixixi
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I used this clutch for 30k. Before it went dead, I was brutal to it. It slips good, grabs very hard, and quick. My favorite ebay piece besides headers! You will enjoy this! I had the stg 2 as well. What part of Michigan? I'm from the lansing area, but live in st louis now.
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:02 AM   #5
Tony3series
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Quote:
Nice DIY! Keep us how it works out for you
Thanks! I will keep everyone posted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyjay View Post
Enjoy your new clutch setup. I have the stage 1 clutch from gripeforce. I do have clutch chatter because my clutch disc is unsprung. I use both bearings that came with the clutch kit and I dont have issues with them. Im going onto 4,000 miles without issues. I will post back here once I have issues.
Glad to hear you havn't had any issues so far with the kit/bearing. I probably read like one persons negative comment on the bearings, and it stuck in my head and made me nervous so I just bought OEM. I can be paranoid at times HaHa

Quote:
I used this clutch for 30k. Before it went dead, I was brutal to it. It slips good, grabs very hard, and quick. My favorite ebay piece besides headers! You will enjoy this! I had the stg 2 as well. What part of Michigan? I'm from the lansing area, but live in st louis now.
Also glad to hear this. For the price I'd be happy if I can severely beat on the thing and it lasts 30k. I'm sure I'm going to have to relearn how to drive the car because my clutch has been slipping to some degree since I bought it. I think the previous owner must've thrashed it a bit themselves. I am from Gibraltar, a little water town about 45 minutes south of Detroit. Right on Lake Erie.

Thanks for the replies you guys. This is the sort of thing I was hoping for in this post. Good to hear everyones experiences with these kits!
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:19 PM   #6
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OP, i wish you success with your new F1 clutch.

I can't and won't recommend them to anyone. Several years ago i helped install one in my friends BMW, it failed within 6 months. My friend drove it normally, not hard. He never got his money back, or any warrantied new parts.

So i hope you get alot more use out of yours, but even if it makes it 20K or 30K miles, that's still way to short a lifespan considering what a PITA it is to do a clutch job.
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:49 PM   #7
Tony3series
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Originally Posted by SK330ci View Post
OP, i wish you success with your new F1 clutch.

I can't and won't recommend them to anyone. Several years ago i helped install one in my friends BMW, it failed within 6 months. My friend drove it normally, not hard. He never got his money back, or any warrantied new parts.

So i hope you get alot more use out of yours, but even if it makes it 20K or 30K miles, that's still way to short a lifespan considering what a PITA it is to do a clutch job.
I agree 30k miles is a very short lifetime for a clutch. I'm hoping others will chime in and post miles on kit, driving habits etc.

I took a shot on this after reading as many reviews as I could find. While E46 fanatics was down I spent some time on bimmerforums. A lot of E36 people over there use this set-up with no problems. That's one of the reasons I decided to start my own post, there wasn't as much info out there (especially for E46's) as I'd like to make an informed decision.

The more info the better.

Thanks for your post, keep em comin.
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:52 PM   #8
Tony3series
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SK330CI, how many miles were on your friends clutch when it failed? Also what stage F1 Racing clutch did he have? Did it just start slipping?
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Old 01-28-2012, 05:42 PM   #9
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I wonder if gripeforce is willing to weight it for us.

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Old 01-29-2012, 09:30 PM   #10
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Perfect thread. I'm about to purchase the same setup and its tough to find feedback on this kit on this forum. BF.C shows many positive reviews.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:01 AM   #11
Tony3series
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First impressions new stage 2 F1 racing clutch

New clutch and all components are in!

First impressions: Holy sh*t this thing grabs. I am definitely going to have to adjust my driving habits especially during the break in period. I put it in first, rev the engine to about where I normally would for a 1st gear engagement, parking lot speed type of take off, trying to let clutch out smooth and damn the thing didn't slip at all, not one bit, just grabbed hard. Totally surprised me HaHa Got out on the street with it trying not to rev higher than 3 or 4 grand because of break in recommendations... 1st to 2nd GRAB-JOLT-kick in the pants, I'm thinking wow, this is f'n awesome but also hoping it'll smooth out during break in. 2nd to 3rd a little more smooth, still a little kick to it but not bad. 3rd to 4th, nice and smooth.

Decided to see what it'd feel like on a non-fried clutch to actually be able to accelerate in 4th gear. So I gave it some gas and nothing but pull. I can actually pass people without downshifting now if I need to! I'm sure the lightweight flywheel helps. Hard to tell the difference at this point because I have to get used to the totally different feel, and like I said I don't want to rev it up to high for now.

Engagement is a little higher up than I'm used to. Self adjusting OEM clutch may not have self adjusted as much as designed to HaHa I'm sure that using different flywheel/clutch combo, and actually having clutch material left makes a difference

Clutch pedal is nice and smooth. Way smoother than my old wore out stuff, probably because of new OEM throwout bearing and throwout bearing guide tube. No more squeaking when pushing in or releasing clutch. Pedal effort to me feels almost exactly like stock, a bit easier actually.

Downshifting is much easier/smoother which I didn't expect. I was waiting for the kick in the ass that I got when up-shifting. For some reason it's even more smooth than my old slipping clutch go figure.

Not one rattle out of this thing. No "chatter" what-so-ever. Sitting idle it is quiet as stock. Keep in mind as stated in my original post I did use the magic combo of trans fluid that UUC recommends for lightweight flywheel. Good stuff

It was a short drive home. About 15 minutes worth of 45mph roads and about a half dozen stop lights. I'm sure the thing was barely warmed up by the time I got home. We'll see how it feels as the weeks go on!
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Last edited by Tony3series; 02-01-2012 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:08 AM   #12
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It's always gonna grab like that Add loud exhaust and you turn into the asshole at the light. VROOOM from the light before you can get out of it again. Oh the looks!
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:21 AM   #13
Tony3series
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HaHa maybe Gripforce should have put a waiver on their E-bay page... *WARNING: You will turn into 'The asshole' at the stoplight with this clutch kit.*
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:21 AM   #14
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You wont have chatter from a sprung clutch disc. The chatter comes from a unsprung disc. Also the pressure plate in the kit is also self adjusting. Im glad to hear the clutch is working the way it is suppose to.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:47 AM   #15
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Thanks sunnjay me too. So far I love it.

Indeed, it is a self adjusting set-up like OEM. That was one of the things I was considering when looking for kits. Truthfully I'd rather have a non self adjusting clutch like UUC's, but for the price I went with this one.

Unsprung clutch discs are much more susceptible to chatter with less chance of getting rid of it or dampening it down.

Sprung clutches with light weight flywheels are less susceptible, but still can be prone to it. That's why I used the UUC magic trans fluid combo to help dampen/absorb some of the vibrations/harmonics from the lighter flywheel.

This is what I've gathered from internet research. I'm no expert but this seems to be the common consensus.
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Last edited by Tony3series; 02-01-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:33 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyjay View Post
You wont have chatter from a sprung clutch disc. The chatter comes from a unsprung disc. Also the pressure plate in the kit is also self adjusting. Im glad to hear the clutch is working the way it is suppose to.

Your statement is not accurate or true, please do not post up information like this based on supposition.

A sprung hub disc will chatter, just not as much as a solid unsprung disc. With the use of a sprung clutch disc & UUC's fluid "cocktail", clutch chatter can be kept to a bare minimum.

As a performance mod the LTW clutch & flywheel really is a great one, the benefits really out way any drawbacks.


Rob
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:48 PM   #17
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No hard feelings taken, I stand corrected. After all life is just one giant education system. haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
Your statement is not accurate or true, please do not post up information like this based on supposition.

A sprung hub disc will chatter, just not as much as a solid unsprung disc. With the use of a sprung clutch disc & UUC's fluid "cocktail", clutch chatter can be kept to a bare minimum.

As a performance mod the LTW clutch & flywheel really is a great one, the benefits really out way any drawbacks.


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Old 02-07-2012, 11:51 AM   #18
Tony3series
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About 50 miles on it now (I have a very short commute HaHa)

Either I'm getting used to driving it, or it feels more smooth like stock now. Easy to engage at all speeds. Smooth if you want it to be. Grabs harder than sh*t if you want it to as well.

Still trying to take it easy on it, but I must admit I've taken it over 6k rpms on a handful of occasions. Revs climb quick. Love it. I know I only have a 2.5 with headers/intake/vanos etc. But this clutch/flywheel has really woken the car up!
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:27 AM   #19
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Be careful, I had this exact kit in my 325 and after about 5 months of it grabbing hard every time it shredded my 2nd gear, it was just way to hard on it. I could see it being in a track car or something that isn't a daily but def not a daily.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:41 AM   #20
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Member BMW_Stu has had his STG3 setup for almost 50000 miles (!!!) now and has nothing but praise for this kit.

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Be careful, I had this exact kit in my 325 and after about 5 months of it grabbing hard every time it shredded my 2nd gear, it was just way to hard on it. I could see it being in a track car or something that isn't a daily but def not a daily.
What's to say your 2nd gear was not already on it's way out?
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