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Motorsports & Track Forum
From Auto-X to Trackday to Racing and Professional Motorsports this is the place to discuss making BMWs fast

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Old 02-22-2012, 09:15 PM   #1
Locutus09
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Fluids for Track

Simple question.

I know OEM Brake fluid shouldn't be used because it has boiled before in our cars while on the track.

What should I replace it with? Making purchases shortly for Oil, just wondering what other fluids I should plan on replacing prior to DD, autocross, and HPDE season.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:54 PM   #2
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For HPDEs - I use RBF600.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:46 PM   #3
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I'd drain and replace coolant if it's been in there more than 2 years. Same for power steering fluid, though draining that is a hassle because you have to unbolt one of the hoses from the rack or pump (or you can do the fluid exchange method). I would change manual transmission fluid and diff fluid every two years or 30,000 miles, but others change those anywhere from every season to every 60,000 miles (or every 100,000 miles if they don't track the car).

I did my first several track days on fresh generic Kragen/O'reilly DOT 4 brake fluid. I only got fade once and I think that was due to using street pads. But back then I was really slow. Then I switched to Ate Typ 200/Gold. It's not as boil resistant as the fancy Motul or Castrol stuff, but seems more than enough for my modest power levels. Of course Alan is rocking an M3 and drives at VIR, where I hear good drivers can get to the top of 5th gear, so maybe he has to handle more heat! (I never get past 120mph or 4th gear.)

Edit: I'm thinking of doing my transmission fluid at 15,000 miles since last change instead of 30,000 miles.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:22 PM   #4
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If you are going to the track frequently or driving on tracks that are hard on brakes, I would recommend Castrol SRF. Motul RBF600 is great but its toast once you boil it...and you need to bleed more often.

I would give an even stronger recommendation for SRF if you plan to pay someone to bleed your brakes.

I wouldn't go cheap on brake fluid...not fun when your brakes start fading. I would HATE having my car sidelined because I used cheap brake fluid.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:34 PM   #5
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PFC RH665 http://store.bimmerworld.com/perform...uid-p1702.aspx

A good in-between for the Motul RBF600 and the Castrol SRX.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:07 PM   #6
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PFC RH665 http://store.bimmerworld.com/perform...uid-p1702.aspx

A good in-between for the Motul RBF600 and the Castrol SRX.
+1 on the PFC RH665, that's what we're running this season on our M3. We've been running Motul RBF 600/660 on our M3 and 330i for quite awhile with no issues too.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:44 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Locutus09 View Post
Simple question.

I know OEM Brake fluid shouldn't be used because it has boiled before in our cars while on the track.

What should I replace it with? Making purchases shortly for Oil, just wondering what other fluids I should plan on replacing prior to DD, autocross, and HPDE season.
BMW OEM brake fluid is actually pretty good. The problem is that it is too old if it has never been changed. New stuff from the dealer parts counter is pretty expensive. Ate Type 200 or Super Blue are perfectly acceptable for most track junkies.

You can't go wrong with Red Line oils for the engine, trans, and diff in appropriate weights.
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Last edited by teamdfl; 02-24-2012 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:55 AM   #8
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OP,

I've been S.C.C.A. Club Racing for a long time, I've never run anything but ATE Super Blue. My brakes consist of stock OEM rotors, braided brake lines, Hawk HT10 pads, ATE Super Blue, & brake backing plates with 3" ducts. Not only have I done my share of winning, but I've also set two different track lap records; Ate Super Blue never missed a beat.......Period.


Good luck.

PS, run your motor oil a half quart high on the dip stick.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:49 PM   #9
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PS, run your motor oil a half quart high on the dip stick.
I thought this was beneficial on E30/E36's but was actually not beneficial and potentially harmful for E46's?
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Old 02-25-2012, 07:07 PM   #10
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I thought this was beneficial on E30/E36's but was actually not beneficial and potentially harmful for E46's?

Well maybe you know something that I don't, it wouldn't be the first time I got something wrong.

I'll look into this, I'm friends with two different E46 330Ci/i race teams. I'll place calls & find out definitively. When I find out what they say, I'll report back; probably 2 or 3 weeks.


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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:59 AM   #11
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:53 AM   #12
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this is what most people dont seem to get... forget BBKs... good pads, steel braided lines and brake fluid is where you need to spend your money... everything else is just race tinsel in most cases and not needed on our cars
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Old 02-25-2012, 07:19 PM   #13
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:34 PM   #14
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I sometimes run my motor oil 1/2 qt high in my E46 to stop lifter tick during AutoX. I don't know of any other problems from running it at the normal full mark instead of above the full mark, but I don't have an oil pressure gauge so who knows if I'm starving the motor or not. (My oil warning light never comes on during track days--maybe I'm not cornering hard enough.)
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:10 PM   #15
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this is what most people dont seem to get... forget BBKs... good pads, steel braided lines and brake fluid is where you need to spend your money... everything else is just race tinsel in most cases and not needed on our cars
A good BBK with race pads will make a significant improvement in braking performance. If anything, the consumable parts last longer. You more significantly more heat dissipation and (don't give a crap what people think)...you can stop shorter over and over and over. Not that I am racing but we all like to pass...at the end of a session, I know I can catch most cars in a hard braking zone by braking much later.

But you've got to pay to play...probably not a worthwhile investment for the occassional HPDE.

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Well maybe you know something that I don't, it wouldn't be the first time I got something wrong.

I'll look into this, I'm friends with two different E46 330Ci/i race teams. I'll place calls & find out definitively. When I find out what they say, I'll report back; probably 2 or 3 weeks.


Rob
Someone told me that you will ruin an S54 by running it a quart over. I've ran my M54 about 1/2-1 qt over and never had an issue so far.

I have no knowledge about this...just putting it out there as a theory.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:08 AM   #16
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A good BBK with race pads will make a significant improvement in braking performance. If anything, the consumable parts last longer. You more significantly more heat dissipation and (don't give a crap what people think)...you can stop shorter over and over and over. Not that I am racing but we all like to pass...at the end of a session, I know I can catch most cars in a hard braking zone by braking much later.

But you've got to pay to play...probably not a worthwhile investment for the occassional HPDE.
I partly agree but where im from most guys run blanks or M3 brakes because its cheaper to run... also if your car is setup right you can carry way more speed in the corners so less braking is required... almost no track cars here run a BBK...

If it offered such an advantage im sure they would switch over... dont get me wrong if you have heat problems you should definitely go BBK, but to fit them just because all the cool kids have them or you think you need them is counter productive and the money should rather be spent in other areas...
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:11 AM   #17
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A good BBK with race pads will make a significant improvement in braking performance. If anything, the consumable parts last longer. You more significantly more heat dissipation and (don't give a crap what people think)...you can stop shorter over and over and over. Not that I am racing but we all like to pass...at the end of a session, I know I can catch most cars in a hard braking zone by braking much later.

But you've got to pay to play...probably not a worthwhile investment for the occassional HPDE.



Someone told me that you will ruin an S54 by running it a quart over. I've ran my M54 about 1/2-1 qt over and never had an issue so far.

I have no knowledge about this...just putting it out there as a theory.
I'm thinking with the S54 it may have something to do with the fact that it is a "dry" sump.

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I partly agree but where im from most guys run blanks or M3 brakes because its cheaper to run... also if your car is setup right you can carry way more speed in the corners so less braking is required... almost no track cars here run a BBK...

If it offered such an advantage im sure they would switch over... dont get me wrong if you have heat problems you should definitely go BBK, but to fit them just because all the cool kids have them or you think you need them is counter productive and the money should rather be spent in other areas...
If you want to have great brakes without going full BBK look into PFC products and a brake ducting kit from Bimmerworld or Turner. Unfortunately, PFC doesn't makes their 2-Piece rotors for the 323, but they do make pads for it.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:42 AM   #18
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I partly agree but where im from most guys run blanks or M3 brakes because its cheaper to run... also if your car is setup right you can carry way more speed in the corners so less braking is required... almost no track cars here run a BBK...

If it offered such an advantage im sure they would switch over... dont get me wrong if you have heat problems you should definitely go BBK, but to fit them just because all the cool kids have them or you think you need them is counter productive and the money should rather be spent in other areas...
You can carry more speed longer is the advantage. At the point where I can start my braking is always later than the guy in front of me. The problem I have is I'm usually almost running into the back of the car in front of me before my braking begins.

Don't get me wrong, the OEM brakes are good and adequate for HPDE session. The reason that many shy away from a BBK is probably the cost. When you need new rotors discs...you can get OEM blanks for $200-$300 a pair. Stoptech rotor rings run from $200-$350 each. I'm not sure the ST rotor rings last THAT much longer than OEM rotors (or quality aftermarket versions) where the ST rings are cheaper of the long run.

The reason why I have the ST 4 wheel BBK is reliability. I've already been through the experience of losing your brakes doing 135mph trying to turn down into the carousel at Texas World Speedway...and then once in Korea going from 130mph to about 50mph.

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I'm thinking with the S54 it may have something to do with the fact that it is a "dry" sump.
IIRC, the guy said (I think) it floods the engine and something bad happens (can't remember what).

The S54 is a dry sump? Didn't know that.

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Old 02-26-2012, 11:32 AM   #19
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ducting is a must it really helps alot... I just get very annoyed that alot of street cars run 19"+ rims just to fit a bbk because they "need" them and at the track they are hardly seen here sorry dont know why i felt i had to vent here
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:05 PM   #20
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ducting is a must it really helps alot... I just get very annoyed that alot of street cars run 19"+ rims just to fit a bbk because they "need" them and at the track they are hardly seen here sorry dont know why i felt i had to vent here
Depends. I race on stock sized brakes w/ PFC01s with just the OEM ducting (if you want to call it that). No issues w/ brake fade. Car is around 3100#s with me in it. Obviously weight plays a factor too, but I think for a DE, proper pads will go a long way.

Skip the OEM pads and get PFC06s. You'll have a much better time.
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