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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 10-01-2012, 02:33 PM   #1
peytonracer4
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new to guns. need advice/help

I'm looking to buy a gun sometimes in the near future for self protection and home protection.
i basically need a rundown for a noob. i haven't grown up around guns and don't really know anything about them. i know the laws in my area and i've shot rifles. that's about where my knowledge ends.
so what do i need to know and practice to stay safe? do i buy a gun with no knowledge and just wing it at a range? should i rent some guns before i buy one?
i don't know how comfortable i feel owning a gun without some practice before hand.
also what are my options? i don't know the difference between one gun and another. i would prefer an AR but price wise, i can't justify owning one at this point.
i'd like to do some target shooting often and will use this gun for recreation (shooting at a range) as well as for protection.

i don't know if i want to carry or not. my state allows open and concealed carry but once again, i don't know how comfortable i am with either at this point

any advice is welcome
thanks
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:40 PM   #2
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Get a 12GA Benelli M1014....
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:48 PM   #3
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Get a 12GA Benelli M1014....
No.

OP, get yourself a good cheap 12 guage pump action shotgun like a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. Shotguns are ideal for home defense because they're super simple to use, easy to clean, reliable, cheap, intimidating and there are a lot of home safe ammunitions on the market for them. You don't want a rifle for home protection, you'll shoot straight through the bad guy and into a neighbors house.

If you don't have any friends with guns, find a range near you and take a basic gun safety course. You'll learn how to operate the gun safely and really get a feel for how it works and develop better respect for it.

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Old 10-01-2012, 02:48 PM   #4
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Lots of posts already like this. Take some time to read through some of the stickies and other threads, then ask specifics.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:45 PM   #5
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Find a local gun forum and ask to try some guns out.

A .22 is cheapest to shoot but carry wise its not ideal, 9mm is where it's at when you compair cost and stopping power although I really like .38 snub nosed revolvers for newbies.

Your going to want something simple, not to many safeties to fumble with and reliable.

My top choices:

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Old 10-01-2012, 06:02 PM   #6
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Go to range and rent guns.

Come back with a list of the 5 you liked the most.

You will get opinions on those.

Look at...


Glock
Ruger
S&W
Sig Sauer

9mm
.357
.40
.45

For starters.

If you want a simple answer... Glock 17 unless you hate it when it you shoot it.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:36 PM   #7
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Why would u put your life and your families life in danger by buying a cheap shotgun that might malfunction..

good luck!!
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:52 PM   #8
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The likely hood of a 500 or 870 having a malfunction under normal situations is slim to none. Clean em once a year and your good to go for decades.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olivierE46M3 View Post
Get a 12GA Benelli M1014....
Quote:
Originally Posted by olivierE46M3 View Post
Why would u put your life and your families life in danger by buying a cheap shotgun that might malfunction..

good luck!!
Who the heck are you? Definitely a troll. Are you 12? Does your knowledge of firearms exist entirely from Call of Duty?

A). OP said he couldn't afford an AR right now. A Benelli M1014 (the military designation for the M4) is expensive. Really expensive. An M4 is somewhere between $1400 and $1800 normally. A M1014 is even more so, because they're fairly rare to find one marked as such.

B). I would take a Remington 870 over a Benelli M4 any day. And I own both. Both are outstanding weapon systems, but when shit hits the fan, the 870 will cycle ANYTHING. They are bulletproof. A Glock, an 870, and an AK would be a person's dream when facing any and all elements; they're ultra reliable.



OP: Do a search and read around at some of the other similar topics that have been posted in this sub forum before. Take advice with a grain of salt. The people who you should rely on are a short list: Reedo302, GlockMan, JonJon, Serbonze, Adam@Euro-Spec, Tailo, and maybe myself. There are a few others who know their stuff as well, but there are also trolls like this fool who I quoted who are grossly misinformed and really will hand you poor advice.

The search will open your eyes a bit, but I will make a few points.

1). Do not buy a shotgun. For one, it has a questionable reputation as the gun of choice for home defense. The reality is that it over-penetrates, has limited capacity, and is the most complex weapons system. Another thing is that if you want to learn to shoot, this is not the gun for you. I think you'll find it difficult to find a range that will let you shoot the thing consistently (other than a skeet/trap range) and it's not going to help much with basic marksmanship.

2) That leaves a handgun, an AR, or some other long gun/rifle. Now, you said that the AR is cost prohibitive at the moment. I get that, but you can start off cheap. There are quality AR platforms available for less than $700 (S&W M&P 15 Sport). And you might be surprised to know that many consider the AR platform to be ideal for home defense, as it doesnt really over-penetrate and its a simpler system to learn and implement.

Handguns are great; they're the standard for personal defense. However, there are many pitfalls, including buying a cheap weapon or buying the wrong weapon for you based off some preconceived notion of what is good or cool. A quality weapon will cost you anywhere for $400-$1000 and up. Depending on where you fit on that scale, you may find that an AR is not out of reach.

Lastly, you could go with a simple long gun to start. It would most likely be chambered in .22LR. The ammo is super cheap and recoil is almost non-existent. A rifle like this would really hone your marksmanship skills and give you a solid foundation from which to grow. The other great thing is that this is the cheapest option. You could pick up a solid bolt action for between $75 and $150 and a semi-auto like a Ruger 10-22 or a M&P 15-22 for between $250 and $400. You could shoot it ALOT; 500 rounds of .22 is something like $20.


3). Go to the range and take a basic safety class to start, maybe something one-on-one with an instructor for an hour. Some might not agree with me on this, but based on what I've read it seems appropriate. You seem uncertain on how firearms function, bordering on nervousness to use one. Your time witn a rifle will benefit you, but there are many different weapon systems and a handgun is more complex than a traditiknal hunting rifle. I think an hour or so with an instructor would really benefit you. He could explain exactly how a handgun or a rifle operates, what all the controls do, and give you a rundown on some basic shooting techniques. You'd have fun and you'd feel much more confident.


4). After taking the course, find a place that rents firearms and have a blast. Try as many as you can or at least the ones that look appealing. Try one in each of the 3 big calibers (9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP) to get a feel for what you like and what you don't. when you select a firearm to rent, ask the clerk to go over it's controls with you and ask if there's anything unique or unusual about it; they'll be happy to help. You want to make sure that you know what everything does and feel confident about your ability to handle it when you enter the range.


5). Once you've done that, come back to us here. Make yourself a list of what firearms you like and maybe some you didn't like. Post that list here and we'll be happy to go over it with you and help you make a choice. Combined, the 7 of us I listed earlier have well over 100 years of practical firearms experience with varying backgrounds from Law Enforement to everyday carrying citizens. Get crackin' on reading some more stuff on the board and get to the range to take that 1 hour instruction and rent some guns.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:18 PM   #10
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is bass pro shops a good place to test out some guns? they have a really wide range to choose from as far as i can remember.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:35 PM   #11
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Do they even have ranges????

IMHO its best to just find some shooters and go with them to the range. Just renting a hand full of pistols and shooting a mag or two threw each will not give you the feedback that talking to a owner will.

Go buy a cheap $60 used bolt action .22 and some various ammo and just hang out at the local free (national forest or the such) range and chat for a day. Most will be glad to awnser questions and let people shoot there toys.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:02 PM   #12
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That would be an excellent sticky post.
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:12 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by david05111 View Post
Who the heck are you? Definitely a troll. Are you 12? Does your knowledge of firearms exist entirely from Call of Duty?

A). OP said he couldn't afford an AR right now. A Benelli M1014 (the military designation for the M4) is expensive. Really expensive. An M4 is somewhere between $1400 and $1800 normally. A M1014 is even more so, because they're fairly rare to find one marked as such.

B). I would take a Remington 870 over a Benelli M4 any day. And I own both. Both are outstanding weapon systems, but when shit hits the fan, the 870 will cycle ANYTHING. They are bulletproof. A Glock, an 870, and an AK would be a person's dream when facing any and all elements; they're ultra reliable.



OP: Do a search and read around at some of the other similar topics that have been posted in this sub forum before. Take advice with a grain of salt. The people who you should rely on are a short list: Reedo302, GlockMan, JonJon, Serbonze, Adam@Euro-Spec, Tailo, and maybe myself. There are a few others who know their stuff as well, but there are also trolls like this fool who I quoted who are grossly misinformed and really will hand you poor advice.

The search will open your eyes a bit, but I will make a few points.

1). Do not buy a shotgun. For one, it has a questionable reputation as the gun of choice for home defense. The reality is that it over-penetrates, has limited capacity, and is the most complex weapons system. Another thing is that if you want to learn to shoot, this is not the gun for you. I think you'll find it difficult to find a range that will let you shoot the thing consistently (other than a skeet/trap range) and it's not going to help much with basic marksmanship.

2) That leaves a handgun, an AR, or some other long gun/rifle. Now, you said that the AR is cost prohibitive at the moment. I get that, but you can start off cheap. There are quality AR platforms available for less than $700 (S&W M&P 15 Sport). And you might be surprised to know that many consider the AR platform to be ideal for home defense, as it doesnt really over-penetrate and its a simpler system to learn and implement.

Handguns are great; they're the standard for personal defense. However, there are many pitfalls, including buying a cheap weapon or buying the wrong weapon for you based off some preconceived notion of what is good or cool. A quality weapon will cost you anywhere for $400-$1000 and up. Depending on where you fit on that scale, you may find that an AR is not out of reach.

Lastly, you could go with a simple long gun to start. It would most likely be chambered in .22LR. The ammo is super cheap and recoil is almost non-existent. A rifle like this would really hone your marksmanship skills and give you a solid foundation from which to grow. The other great thing is that this is the cheapest option. You could pick up a solid bolt action for between $75 and $150 and a semi-auto like a Ruger 10-22 or a M&P 15-22 for between $250 and $400. You could shoot it ALOT; 500 rounds of .22 is something like $20.


3). Go to the range and take a basic safety class to start, maybe something one-on-one with an instructor for an hour. Some might not agree with me on this, but based on what I've read it seems appropriate. You seem uncertain on how firearms function, bordering on nervousness to use one. Your time witn a rifle will benefit you, but there are many different weapon systems and a handgun is more complex than a traditiknal hunting rifle. I think an hour or so with an instructor would really benefit you. He could explain exactly how a handgun or a rifle operates, what all the controls do, and give you a rundown on some basic shooting techniques. You'd have fun and you'd feel much more confident.


4). After taking the course, find a place that rents firearms and have a blast. Try as many as you can or at least the ones that look appealing. Try one in each of the 3 big calibers (9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP) to get a feel for what you like and what you don't. when you select a firearm to rent, ask the clerk to go over it's controls with you and ask if there's anything unique or unusual about it; they'll be happy to help. You want to make sure that you know what everything does and feel confident about your ability to handle it when you enter the range.


5). Once you've done that, come back to us here. Make yourself a list of what firearms you like and maybe some you didn't like. Post that list here and we'll be happy to go over it with you and help you make a choice. Combined, the 7 of us I listed earlier have well over 100 years of practical firearms experience with varying backgrounds from Law Enforement to everyday carrying citizens. Get crackin' on reading some more stuff on the board and get to the range to take that 1 hour instruction and rent some guns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbonze View Post
That would be an excellent sticky post.


Home defense:

-Go to www.galleryofguns.com
-Click on "Davidson's specials"
-Find the Moss 500 with pistol grip + shoulder stock + 18.5" barrel + LONG barrel.
-BUY IT and have it shipped to an FFL for ~$300 bucks. You have the option of selling the long barrel for ~$100


This is what I did as my first gun and it is for sure the way to go. I've put over 500 rounds through it with no jamming or sign of fault. I do clean my guns after every shoot though-which you should do with ANY gun....

Once you have your Moss, that will itch the scratch that you have right now for about a month lol. Then you are gonna want another one, and another, and another, etc... During the time you are cleaning, modding, and learning your moss, you should constantly be doing research of different pistols and rifles, it helps to learn your round types and calibers too.

Go to a range and see if they have a flat fee to shoot ANY of the guns, and make sure you can switch up guns without a fee. Try as many different brands as you can.

It's a fun and addictive hobby. Have fun!
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:09 PM   #14
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Nice! But that's so backwards

So a NICS check isn't as good as a BGC on a CCW? lol
Still need the NICS check if you have the CWP, just not the wait (in Florida).

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I do clean my guns after every shoot though-which you should do with ANY gun....
I disagree. You can talk to precision shooters that will tell you that cleaning after every shoot will actually cause a decrease in accuracy. ARs do not need to be cleaned after every shoot either. I just finally cleaned mine after about 2,000 rounds. I really can't remember the last time I cleaned my Glock. If you change that that to lubricate before every shoot, I would agree with you.
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:11 PM   #15
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just filled out my ccw app. gotta go in and get printed and crap.
then they process it. i guess that takes 4 or so weeks. lame
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:20 PM   #16
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I disagree. You can talk to precision shooters that will tell you that cleaning after every shoot will actually cause a decrease in accuracy. ARs do not need to be cleaned after every shoot either. I just finally cleaned mine after about 2,000 rounds. I really can't remember the last time I cleaned my Glock. If you change that that to lubricate before every shoot, I would agree with you.
I guess "clean your gun" is different for everyone though. I never use the metal brush on my guns, I just think it's too abrassive... I normally just take a rag and clean the slide and internals with some hoppe's on it, use the pads w/ hoppe's for the barrel, and clean any built up carbon with a plastic scraper. Then LIGHTLY apply some hoppe's oil to the moving parts.

I can't see how the way I clean it would decrease it's accuracy... I understand if someone is using something really abrassive, as clearances would increase. Also, I guess it depends how many rounds you put through the gun in one session.
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:53 PM   #17
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I TRY to clean them after every shoot but really only my CQB gets the most attention and thats just a couple of patches soaked in motor oil pushed down the barrel.

I completly ignor my SMG, I just dump oil on the bolt and barrel face when it starts jamming. I cleaned it for the first time at 3300 rounds.





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Old 10-02-2012, 12:03 PM   #18
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This really helps thanks.
I do have an air rifle that I shoot sometimes at targets. So I wouldn't say I'm uncomfortable with handling a gun. But I just want to learn to handle every gun with the respect it needs. I want to be safe with what I do. I absolutely do not want to buy a gun to protect myself and not know how to safely handle it.
The purchase age for a handgun is 21 in my state. The owning age is 18. I'm under 21 do you think a range will still let me rent them?
If you don't know I'll just find out when I call them or stop in. I'll have to do some searching though. I don't really know of many ranges around here.
Thanks again!
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peytonracer4 View Post
The purchase age for a handgun is 21 in my state. The owning age is 18. I'm under 21 do you think a range will still let me rent them?
If you don't know I'll just find out when I call them or stop in. I'll have to do some searching though. I don't really know of many ranges around here.
Thanks again!
No, the purchase age of firearms (handguns) in your state is 18. The same for Long Guns.

If you purchase a firearm from an FFL, you need to be 21. Long guns from an FFL is still 18. That is Federal law.

You can purchase a firearm privately from another IN resident with no paperwork. There also is no registration in IN.

happy purchasing and yes a range will let you shoot (unless they have a policy for some reason)

Quote:
If I purchase a handgun from a private person, do I have to complete a transfer
form?
No. Indiana does not require the completion of a form for a private purchase nor do you
have to route the transfer through a dealer. Recommend reviewing statutes in IC 35-
47-2.5 which is the chapter regulating the sale of handguns in regards to a private sale
or purchase.
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 10-02-2012, 12:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peytonracer4 View Post
This really helps thanks.
I do have an air rifle that I shoot sometimes at targets. So I wouldn't say I'm uncomfortable with handling a gun. But I just want to learn to handle every gun with the respect it needs. I want to be safe with what I do. I absolutely do not want to buy a gun to protect myself and not know how to safely handle it.
The purchase age for a handgun is 21 in my state. The owning age is 18. I'm under 21 do you think a range will still let me rent them?
If you don't know I'll just find out when I call them or stop in. I'll have to do some searching though. I don't really know of many ranges around here.
Thanks again!
Understood; that's very smart.

JonJon is correct; private party, you could buy a handgun at 18. If you decide to go that route, let us know so we can tell you how to deal with that.

Now, I can tell you that in my area, you can't rent a handgun unless you're 21. That may or may not be universal and that could potentially create a barrier to you.

However, i still think you could get instruction for using a handgun. And if you're instructor is willing to do it, he could rent to gun to instruct you with it. You could go to the range and have him or her instruct you on each weapon you want to rent.

Otherwise, you could do as Tailo suggested earlier and go your local range and ask to shoot the firearms of fellow shooters.

JonJon, do you know whether he can purchase handgun ammunition under 21 in his state? I'd make the argument that .45 can be shot out of a Kriss Carbine and the 9mm can be shot out of an AR or an MP5/HK94 (?) rifle and that therefore they shouldn't be classified as handgun rounds, but some states might inhibit that.
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