E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-07-2013, 09:08 PM   #1
00stephen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15
My Ride: '02 TJ, '87 Milano
L.A. Shooter is a Lefty Liberal, But News Outlets Hide It

(I've read through the other thread in the main OT forum, which is covering the crimes and manhunt, but not the media/political aspect of the story.)

There's actually two stories here... One is that the nutcase former cop in L.A. is a lefty anti-gun liberal, which is quite ironic given his most recent personal endeavors.

But the other bigger story is that news media has chosen to hide his political and social views -- which in a different context many might find sensible and agreeable, despite his nonsensical and murderous dive off the deep end. The original manifesto was announced to be 22 pages. Authorities asked media outlets to redact the names of private citizens. But the media went a step further and removed 10 pages political and cultural commentary, all of it left-leaning.

So, question: if the commentary had been right-leaning or conservative in nature, do we believe the media would withhold it as well? Or would we see another attempt to claim 'Tea Partying gun nut goes on shooting spree'? To what degree can we trust the media who seem to be routinely lying, editing, or hiding events and accounts to fit a preferred narrative and shape collective beliefs?

http://www.soopermexican.com/2013/02...-gun-comments/



.
__________________
00stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:14 PM   #2
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Korea
Posts: 537
My Ride: A Car
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00stephen View Post


Last edited by badfast; 02-07-2013 at 09:15 PM.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:31 PM   #3
00stephen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15
My Ride: '02 TJ, '87 Milano
Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
tin foil hat
So when you impulsively dismiss that, badfast, are you suggesting that what has been published at wikileaks and other other websites is not something Dorner wrote? {Hands your aluminum falcon back, for you to wear.}

I agree with evolved that crazy knows no boundaries (see above)... But don't the sane people in editorial and managerial positions of media outlets have an ethical commitment to publish the whole truth when it comes to reporting?

edit: AoG is spot-on with the concern I attempted to express.
__________________

Last edited by 00stephen; 02-07-2013 at 09:34 PM.
00stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:42 PM   #4
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Korea
Posts: 537
My Ride: A Car
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00stephen View Post
So when you impulsively dismiss that, badfast, are you suggesting that what has been published at wikileaks and other other websites is not something Dorner wrote? {Hands your aluminum falcon back, for you to wear.}

I agree with evolved that crazy knows no boundaries (see above)... But don't the sane people in editorial and managerial positions of media outlets have an ethical commitment to publish the whole truth when it comes to reporting?

edit: AoG is spot-on with the concern I attempted to express.
I am not dismissing anything he wrote. Just trying to spin this into a finger pointing contest is silly. What are you getting at by describing him as a lefty? Are you looking at one event and trying to scream that people you label as "the left" are nutty gun loving nuts bent on destruction and mayhem?

I think there are bigger issues at hand other than was this guy a liberal, right wing nutter, or whatever label you wish to use. People that automatically run towards the political affiliation this guy, I wonder if they suffer from some type of insecurity?

Is his political affiliation a representation of all those that hold "lefty" views?
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:19 PM   #5
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 815
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Last time I checked crazy knows no political affiliation, but if a psychopaths political leanings make you feel better about yourself, go for it.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:29 PM   #6
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
Last time I checked crazy knows no political affiliation, but if a psychopaths political leanings make you feel better about yourself, go for it.
I think the point was that if this guy was a tea party, gun-totin' "conservative" that would have been the headline of every story about this guy. They tried it with Holmes and Laughner, but failed because they ran the story before the facts came out.

I know you will say something like well that doesn't make it right, and you aren't wrong. However, the only way to fight this type of bias is to make the lies front and center and part of the debate. Turning the other cheek doesn't work in this sort of situation.

Plus, I've already outlined the murders perpetrated by the left.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin

Last edited by Act of God; 02-07-2013 at 09:31 PM.
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:32 PM   #7
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 815
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
I think the point was that if this guy was a tea party, gun-totin' "conservative" that would have been the headline of every story about this guy. They tried it with Holmes and Laughner, but failed because they ran the story before the facts came out.

I know you will say something like well that doesn't make it right, and you aren't wrong. However, the only way to fight this type of bias is to make the lies front and center and part of the debate. Turning the other cheek doesn't work in this sort of situation.
If this is indeed true, it does need to be brought up. However, a sourced named "soopermexican" isn't one I'm going to put a ton of faith in.



Quote:
Plus, I've already outlined the murders perpetrated by the left.
que?
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:40 PM   #8
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
que?
Just a little quick research I did after Lair implied that only conservatives kill people in another thread

Wilkes Booth: Anti War, loved "peace more than life"
Guiteau: Commune-ist
Czolgosz: Socialist/Anarcist, incited by a speech from Emma Goldstein
Zangara: sought to "make even with capitalists"
Oswald: Communist, openly
Sirhan: Angry over support for Israel
Bremer: obsessed with bigotry, down with black panthers
Fromme: Concerned with redwoods
Moore: Thought "government had declared war on the left"

Not to mention the 10's of millions killed by Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler, Che, etc.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:44 PM   #9
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Korea
Posts: 537
My Ride: A Car
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Just a little quick research I did after Lair implied that only conservatives kill people in another thread

Wilkes Booth: Anti War, loved "peace more than life"
Guiteau: Commune-ist
Czolgosz: Socialist/Anarcist, incited by a speech from Emma Goldstein
Zangara: sought to "make even with capitalists"
Oswald: Communist, openly
Sirhan: Angry over support for Israel
Bremer: obsessed with bigotry, down with black panthers
Fromme: Concerned with redwoods
Moore: Thought "government had declared war on the left"

Not to mention the 10's of millions killed by Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler, Che, etc.
You continue to prove you idiocy time and time again. What does political affiliation have to do with someone's intent to kill?

By those standards you have killers on the right:

All religious terrorist organizations (Hezbollah, AQ, etc.)
KKK
Neo-Nazis
The Contras

Among the many many others.

Last edited by badfast; 02-07-2013 at 09:45 PM.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:44 PM   #10
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 815
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Just a little quick research I did after Lair implied that only conservatives kill people in another thread

Wilkes Booth: Anti War, loved "peace more than life"
Guiteau: Commune-ist
Czolgosz: Socialist/Anarcist, incited by a speech from Emma Goldstein
Zangara: sought to "make even with capitalists"
Oswald: Communist, openly
Sirhan: Angry over support for Israel
Bremer: obsessed with bigotry, down with black panthers
Fromme: Concerned with redwoods
Moore: Thought "government had declared war on the left"

Not to mention the 10's of millions killed by Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler, Che, etc.
You do realize fascism is a far right ideology? Hitler, Stalin.....both fascists. Not that it matters, really......the political spectrum arches in towards itself at the far extremes.

In any event, taking a scoreboard mentality of far right whack jobs vs. far left whack jobs does nothing but set the conversation back and off track, in my opinion.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 08:48 AM   #11
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,024
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
Last time I checked crazy knows no political affiliation, but if a psychopaths political leanings make you feel better about yourself, go for it.
And yet, if this guy was murdering gays, bombing abortion clinics, or assaulting high profile obama supporters, it would be ALL over the news that a republican nut job with a gun was.....

Don't even pretend that isn't the case.
__________________

Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244
Wrapping an E46 in Vinyl : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ghlight=bronze
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 10:08 AM   #12
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Korea
Posts: 537
My Ride: A Car
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Either way, I felt like Zell was painting him as a god crusader-type as if he was some sort of evangelical...which he certainly was not.
Regardless if Hitler was a Christian or believed in any god is of little important. His invocation of religion influenced individuals to commit atrocities. I think that is scary. Not how religion influences one man, but how it can influence an entire society to commit awful acts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
And yet, if this guy was murdering gays, bombing abortion clinics, or assaulting high profile obama supporters, it would be ALL over the news that a republican nut job with a gun was.....

Don't even pretend that isn't the case.
We can only hope.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 11:49 AM   #13
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
Regardless if Hitler was a Christian or believed in any god is of little important. His invocation of religion influenced individuals to commit atrocities. I think that is scary. Not how religion influences one man, but how it can influence an entire society to commit awful acts.



We can only hope.
It was my understanding that the driving force of the Nazi movement was nationalism and scapegoating, this wasn't a crusade nor was it sold as one.

A lot of you are missing the point here. You write "We can only hope" in response to what Chase said but you're completely ignored his valid statement. It goes a little something like this:

Shooting/murder/bad thing happens

If shooter is tea party/white/conservative: His beliefs are why he did it
If shooter is black/liberal/democrat: crazy is crazy, who cares what his beliefs are.

It is quite obvious, I suspect you are engaging in willful blindness.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 12:35 PM   #14
00stephen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15
My Ride: '02 TJ, '87 Milano
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
It was my understanding that the driving force of the Nazi movement was nationalism and scapegoating, this wasn't a crusade nor was it sold as one.
Spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Shooting/murder/bad thing happens
If shooter is tea party/white/conservative: His beliefs are why he did it
If shooter is black/liberal/democrat: crazy is crazy, who cares what his beliefs are.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/when-...ble-restraint/

Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
His invocation of religion influenced individuals to commit atrocities. I think that is scary. Not how religion influences one man, but how it can influence an entire society to commit awful acts.
You mention religion over and over again. All the while knowing that religion is but one form of ideology. Political persuasion is another, more secular form of ideology. Conservative or liberal, the same things show up by people espouse political ideology: ignorance, twisted interpretation of texts or dogma, sanctimony, invocation of higher principles, preaching to choirs, bigotry, persecution, self-righteousness, intolerance of others. Never make such a white-washed mistake again; religion didn't lead the people of Germany to commit the atrocities of the Third Reich, political ideology did. Never forget. And to keep this post in line with the topic, we shouldn't forget the main tool used shape that national fervor -- media and its use of political propaganda to shape popular opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lair View Post
LTNS
How are things in Neocon land?
backatcha!

Come'on man, we discussed the etymology of "neocon" last year. Columbus is thoroughly blue (as heads the direction of the state, I fear. )

edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammk View Post
Don't worry, the new gun control laws will apply to everyone alike, Liberals and Reps.
Except the po-po, DHS, and anybody Eric Holder and his pals decides to smuggle weapons to. I suspect they'll be keeping the 7000 AR-based "personal defense weapons" and 30 round mags they bought last year. {voluntarily takes back the tin cap from badfast}
__________________

Last edited by 00stephen; 02-08-2013 at 12:49 PM.
00stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:00 PM   #15
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 893
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
Last time I checked crazy knows no political affiliation, but if a psychopaths political leanings make you feel better about yourself, go for it.
Last time I checked, he isn't crazy. In fact, he is the farthest thing from crazy. Almost everything has been calculated to a serious degree of precision. This man is on a mission, and is 100% dedicated to it.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:07 PM   #16
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Last time I checked, he isn't crazy. In fact, he is the farthest thing from crazy. Almost everything has been calculated to a serious degree of precision. This man is on a mission, and is 100% dedicated to it.
Seems more like angry and driven than crazy, it's not like he thinks he's riding around with Jesus sitting shotgun.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:16 PM   #17
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 893
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Seems more like angry and driven than crazy, it's not like he thinks he's riding around with Jesus sitting shotgun.
He is fully aware of his actions, his goals, and his road to achieve them. Yes he's angry, but crazy he is not. He has only killed particular people that are involved in some way in his little scandal, not a bunch of random people eating lunch at Spago.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 11:11 AM   #18
JonJon
Tinfoilhatatarian
 
JonJon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: One of the most evil states ever to exist
Posts: 3,470
My Ride: .
Send a message via AIM to JonJon
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
He is fully aware of his actions, his goals, and his road to achieve them. Yes he's angry, but crazy he is not. He has only killed particular people that are involved in some way in his little scandal, not a bunch of random people eating lunch at Spago.
I agree. The way the police are acting, I almost feel like he is targeting individuals that would be better not on this earth. Some of the things I'm seeing and reading go FAR beyond "corruption".


Haven't read all the details though.
__________________
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
I agree with JonJon.

Last edited by JonJon; 02-09-2013 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Auto-save 1360429981
JonJon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:48 PM   #19
00stephen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15
My Ride: '02 TJ, '87 Milano
And furthermore, to what extent is the media culpable for the hate it may foster? For example Dorner wrote this, somewhere between complimenting Michelle Obama on her new bangs and calling Margaret Cho beautiful:

Quote:
"If you continuously followed me while I was walking at dusk/night I would confront you as well. Too bad Trayvon didn’t smash your skull completely open, Zim. While Trayvon’s body erodes to bones 6 feet under, Zimmerman has put on no less than 40 pounds while out on bail. Zimmerman was arrested for battery on a Peace officer and avoided jail/prison because he completed a diversion program. Thats a history of being an asshole. Zimmerman couldn’t get hired by a LE agency because of poor credit/and a history of violence/restraining orders with women. So what does he do? Designate himself, neighborhood watch captain and make complaints to his city council about the horrible work ethic and laziness of the officers patrolling his neighborhood. Good one Zim. How classy that your father attempts to use his veterans status “disabled veteran” during your bail hearing but doesn’t state what his disability percentage is. Prior service personnel know it can be 5% disability to 100%. You and your attorneys always avoid mentioning your fathers occupation as a magistrate/judge because I’m sure he’s utilized his position to get you out of way more jams then the public has discovered and that your family is not indigent. Oh, tell your wife to stop perjuring herself in court."
Clearly Dorner bought into the initial media hype that Zimmerman is a violent, abusive person (as if Dorner himself is not?), and that T.M. was a victim (which Dorner narcissisticly believes he, himself, is). If it wasn't for the race angle that the national media outlets tried to play in the initial weeks of the event, the Zimmerman shooting would have remained a fourth page story at the local level.

So to what extent does the media -- by hyping division, scandal, contention... as well as certain political angles or supposed grievances -- affect (or encourage) social and even psychological discord among viewers?
__________________
00stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 08:33 AM   #20
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
What political affiliation are most gang members?
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use