E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-13-2013, 06:36 AM   #1
phrozen06
NA V8
 
phrozen06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 3927'33"N 7758'04"W
Posts: 7,510
My Ride: E46, E92 M3, R32 VW
Send a message via Yahoo to phrozen06
Senator Bernie Sanders and The Job Creators

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-be...b_2652176.html

Quote:
When the greed, recklessness, and illegal behavior on Wall Street drove this country into the deepest recession since the 1930s, the largest financial institutions in the United States took every advantage of being American. They just loved their country - and the willingness of the American people to provide them with the largest bailout in world history. In 2008, Congress approved a $700 billion gift to Wall Street. Another $16 trillion in virtually zero interest loans and other financial assistance came from the Federal Reserve. America. What a great country.

But just two years later, as soon as these giant financial institutions started making record-breaking profits again, they suddenly lost their love for their native country. At a time when the nation was suffering from a huge deficit, largely created by the recession that Wall Street caused, the major financial institutions did everything they could to avoid paying American taxes by establishing shell corporations in the Cayman Islands and other tax havens.

In 2010, Bank of America set up more than 200 subsidiaries in the Cayman Islands (which has a corporate tax rate of 0.0 percent) to avoid paying U.S. taxes. It worked. Not only did Bank of America pay nothing in federal income taxes, but it received a rebate from the IRS worth $1.9 billion that year. They are not alone. In 2010, JP Morgan Chase operated 83 subsidiaries incorporated in offshore tax havens to avoid paying some $4.9 billion in U.S. taxes. That same year Goldman Sachs operated 39 subsidiaries in offshore tax havens to avoid an estimated $3.3 billion in U.S. taxes. Citigroup has paid no federal income taxes for the last four years after receiving a total of $2.5 trillion in financial assistance from the Federal Reserve during the financial crisis.

On and on it goes. Wall Street banks and large companies love America when they need corporate welfare. But when it comes to paying American taxes or American wages, they want nothing to do with this country. That has got to change.

Offshore tax abuse is not just limited to Wall Street. Each and every year corporations and the wealthy are avoiding more than $100 billion in U.S. taxes by sheltering their income offshore.

Pharmaceutical companies like Eli Lilly and Pfizer have fought to make it illegal for the American people to buy cheaper prescription drugs from Canada and Europe. But, during tax season, Eli Lilly and Pfizer shift drug patents and profits to the Netherlands and other offshore tax havens to avoid paying U.S. taxes.



Apple wants all of the advantages of being an American company, but it doesn't want to pay American taxes or American wages. It creates the iPad, the iPhone, the iPod, and iTunes in the United States, but manufactures most of its products in China so it doesn't have to pay American wages. Then it shifts most of its profits to Ireland, Luxembourg, the British Virgin Islands and other tax havens to avoid paying U.S. taxes. Without such maneuvers, Apple's federal tax bill in the United States would have been $2.4 billion higher in 2011.

Offshore tax schemes have become so absurd that one five-story office building in the Cayman Islands is now the "home" to more than 18,000 corporations.

This tax avoidance does not just reduce the revenue that we need to pay for education, healthcare, roads, and environmental protection, it is also costing us millions of American jobs. Today, companies are using these same tax schemes to lower their tax bills by shipping American jobs and factories abroad. These tax breaks have contributed to the loss of more than 5 million U.S. manufacturing jobs and the closure of more than 56,000 factories since 2000. That also has got to change.

At a time when we have a $16.5 trillion national debt; at a time when roughly one-quarter of the largest corporations in America are paying no federal income taxes; and at a time when corporate profits are at an all-time high; it is past time for Wall Street and corporate America to pay their fair share.

That's what the Corporate Tax Dodging Prevention Act (S.250) that I have introduced with Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.) is all about.

This legislation will stop profitable Wall Street banks and corporations from sheltering profits in the Cayman Islands and other tax havens to avoid paying U.S. taxes. It will also stop rewarding companies that ship jobs and factories overseas with tax breaks. The Joint Committee on Taxation has estimated in the past that the provisions in this bill will raise more than $590 billion in revenue over the next decade.

As Congress debates deficit reduction, it is clear that we must raise significant new revenue. At 15.8 percent of GDP, federal revenue is at almost the lowest point in 60 years. Our Republican colleagues want to balance the budget on the backs of the elderly, the sick, the children, the veterans and the most vulnerable by making massive cuts. At a time when the middle class already is disappearing, that is not only a grossly immoral position, it is bad economics.

We have a much better idea. Wall Street and the largest corporations in the country must begin to pay their fair share of taxes. They must not be able to continue hiding their profits offshore and shipping American jobs overseas to avoid taxes.

Here's the simple truth. You can't be an American company only when you want a massive bailout from the American people. You have also got to be an American company, and pay your fair share of taxes, as we struggle with the deficit and adequate funding for the needs of the American people. If Wall Street and corporate America don't agree, the next time they need a bailout let them go to the Cayman Islands, let them go to Bermuda, let them go to the Bahamas and let them ask those countries for corporate welfare.
The guy has a point........
__________________

S65: 4.0 Liter, V8, 414 hp @8,300 rpm, 295 lb/ft @3900 rpm, 445 lb, DOHC, 12:1 C/R, crankshaft 44 lb, wet sump.
2 oil pumps,double vanos variable valve timing, EMS: MSS60, 8 electronically controlled individual throttle butterflies.
4 valves per cylinder, cracked trapezoidal connecting rods, brake energy regeneration. Ion-flow combustion monitoring.


Last edited by phrozen06; 02-13-2013 at 06:38 AM. Reason: Auto-save 1360759113
phrozen06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 06:43 AM   #2
Act of God
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 333
My Ride: 3.5 Liters of fury
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Those companies would probably just leave America though.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." October 23, 2010, not January 20, 2009
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 08:21 AM   #3
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 816
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Those companies would probably just leave America though.
+1


There is a definite need for corporate tax reform.....hiking the rates on them is not the answer since we already have some of the highest rates.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 08:41 AM   #4
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,890
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
+1


There is a definite need for corporate tax reform.....hiking the rates on them is not the answer since we already have some of the highest rates.
I was waiting for this. So many people want to attack corporations in this country and make them pay.
__________________
"Economics cannot answer such normative or prescriptive questions about how much of our market incomes, if any, should be transferred to poor families. This is a political question that can only be answered at the ballot box, or in some countries, at the point of a gun."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 09:13 AM   #5
'busa
Registered User
 
'busa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 1,465
My Ride: E90 335i (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
+1


There is a definite need for corporate tax reform.....hiking the rates on them is not the answer since we already have some of the highest rates.
That's a myth. Yes, in theory, they are, but the effective tax rate is much lower. The CBO puts it at 12.1% in their latest estimate: According to the Wall Street Journals recent study of Congressional Budget Office numbers, corporations are paying an effective rate of 12.1%, the lowest in at least 40 years.

__________________
'busa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 09:22 AM   #6
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 816
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
That's a myth. Yes, in theory, they are, but the effective tax rate is much lower. The CBO puts it at 12.1% in their latest estimate: According to the Wall Street Journals recent study of Congressional Budget Office numbers, corporations are paying an effective rate of 12.1%, the lowest in at least 40 years.

Muy interesante.....thanks for the link!
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 09:52 AM   #7
Act of God
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 333
My Ride: 3.5 Liters of fury
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
That's a myth. Yes, in theory, they are, but the effective tax rate is much lower. The CBO puts it at 12.1% in their latest estimate: According to the Wall Street Journals recent study of Congressional Budget Office numbers, corporations are paying an effective rate of 12.1%, the lowest in at least 40 years.

First of all 40 years is nothing. Second of all, evolved was talking about our rates compared to the rest of the world. We can have the lowest rates WE'VE had, but if we're still at/near the top what's the difference?
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." October 23, 2010, not January 20, 2009
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 09:54 AM   #8
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Korea
Posts: 504
My Ride: A Car
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
First of all 40 years is nothing. Second of all, evolved was talking about our rates compared to the rest of the world. We can have the lowest rates WE'VE had, but if we're still at/near the top what's the difference?
But we are not at the top compared to the rest of the world. We sit near the bottom. Read foreign Affairs Volume 91 #5 America the undertaxed by Andrea Campbell.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 09:59 AM   #9
'busa
Registered User
 
'busa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 1,465
My Ride: E90 335i (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
First of all 40 years is nothing. Second of all, evolved was talking about our rates compared to the rest of the world. We can have the lowest rates WE'VE had, but if we're still at/near the top what's the difference?
Nothing you posted here makes any sense.

What do you mean 40 years is nothing? Would you like them to be lowest in the history of the world? What are you talking about?

As for your second, did you read my post at all before you clicked on "quote" and replied?
__________________
'busa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 12:23 PM   #10
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Those companies would probably just leave America though.
Good. Let it pave the way for a new company to replace them.
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 01:30 PM   #11
Act of God
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 333
My Ride: 3.5 Liters of fury
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
Good. Let it pave the way for a new company to replace them.
The new companies would be unable to compete on a global scale doing 100% business within America.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." October 23, 2010, not January 20, 2009
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 02:00 PM   #12
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
The new companies would be unable to compete on a global scale doing 100% business within America.
The two contradict each other.
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 04:51 PM   #13
Act of God
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 333
My Ride: 3.5 Liters of fury
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
The two contradict each other.
I mean if they do everything here 100%, they will lose out to foreign companies with far smaller costs. The ipod would cost "$2,000" if it was made in America, for example.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." October 23, 2010, not January 20, 2009
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 03:10 PM   #14
rdsesq
ouroboros autorotica
 
rdsesq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cali...the only state that matters
Posts: 1,452
My Ride: 2002 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
The new companies would be unable to compete on a global scale doing 100% business within America.
They don't have to, to be successful companies. We keep hearing about how small businesses are the biggest drivers of the economy. Many of these small businesses just do their business in the USA and do just fine.
__________________
"The existence of life is a highly overrated phenomenon."
-- Dr Manhattan

quis custodiet ipsos custodes

Last edited by rdsesq; 02-13-2013 at 03:10 PM.
rdsesq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 04:52 PM   #15
Act of God
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 333
My Ride: 3.5 Liters of fury
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsesq View Post
They don't have to, to be successful companies. We keep hearing about how small businesses are the biggest drivers of the economy. Many of these small businesses just do their business in the USA and do just fine.
...and those aren't the businesses with offshore tax shelters. Those businesses are paying the actual corporate rate minus whatever deductions regular mom and pop places can take. There's no need to jack up their rates to try to get to Apple. You're throwing the baby out with the bath water.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." October 23, 2010, not January 20, 2009
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 01:04 PM   #16
rdsesq
ouroboros autorotica
 
rdsesq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cali...the only state that matters
Posts: 1,452
My Ride: 2002 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Those companies would probably just leave America though.
Eliminating shell corporations in the Caymans or other tax havens where corps or individuals can shelter their profits from taxation is a good thing. It is a massive loophole that allows million/billions to escape viable and legal taxation in this country.

If BofA (just to use an example) wants to leave because of it, OK. Let them. The leave the country and take their taxable income and jobs with them, fine. They want to continue doing business in the US, great. They can do so under tariffs and other non-US regulations, and we get money from them that way. They don;t want to get squeezed that way. They are free to not do business in the US. Other banks will choose to stay. You might even get more local banks...rather than the huge mega-banks that we see today. Oh the horror!!! With the technology we have today, it is much easier for them to compete in a digital marketplace.

This whole "it will drive business away" is a argument. And it is funny that it comes from the most allegedly "free market" supporters. BofA leaves and by doing so they are kicked to the curb and told never to return. Fine. There will be banks that stay and grow and even new banks that will pop up to fill the void they leave. That is how the "free market" works after all. Supply and demand.

Might it have a short term blip on the market, yeah, OK it might. It sure as hell is gonna hurt BofA stock. But, that is part of the cost they pay in moving out of the US to save those tax dollars. We all make choices. Even if it blips the economy down in the short term, it will pay off in the long term. Fewer tax loopholes, jobs, and investment in US companies for the good of the US. And not just jobs for those with degrees, because everybody needs to face reality. Not everyone in this country has the monetary resources or intelligence or desire to get a college degree.

Do we still need big budget cuts and to curb spending, damn straight we do. But, it is not an either or situation. Many people I know in the "middle class or upper middle class" (folks making $120K+ per year) aren't as pi$$ed off that taxes are to high. They are more pi$$ed off that the effective rate on some of the richest citizens and corporations are 12-15% when they are paying 28-30+%. America is one of, the greatest countries in the world. There is more opportunity to make money here than most places in the world. There are freedoms here you don't get most places in the world. But, just like everything else, quality does not come cheap.

They want the freedoms and the opportunities this country provides them with, they are going to pay top dollar for it, that is capitalism at its best. They don't want to, that is fine. We don't need your business. We existed long before their business got here and we will be here long after their business is gone.
__________________
"The existence of life is a highly overrated phenomenon."
-- Dr Manhattan

quis custodiet ipsos custodes
rdsesq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 07:50 AM   #17
'busa
Registered User
 
'busa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 1,465
My Ride: E90 335i (sold)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Those companies would probably just leave America though.
They can GTFO. See if Dubai will bail them out.
__________________

Last edited by 'busa; 02-13-2013 at 07:52 AM. Reason: Auto-save 1360763522
'busa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 07:51 PM   #18
Goughie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Over the pond...
Posts: 562
My Ride: 330d Sport Touring
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post



They can GTFO. See if Dubai will bail them out.
Said in jest I know, but Abu Dhabi bailed out Dubai to the tune of 50 billion so that'd be unlikely!

This issue of corporate tax avoidance is a hot potato in the UK too right now. The difference here is that as well as using tax free havens, some of the largest companies in the UK negotiate their tax rates with our revenue service - which is complete BS. That's clearly not a level playing field.
__________________
http://i38.tinypic.com/oif03r.png
Sig is a BlownE30M3 production!

"The protection of views purely on religious grounds cannot be justified. It is not only an irrational idea, but it is also divisive, capricious and arbitrary" - Lord Justice Laws, UK 29/04/2010
Goughie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 08:12 AM   #19
Act of God
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 333
My Ride: 3.5 Liters of fury
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Yeah that should help our economy!
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." October 23, 2010, not January 20, 2009
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 08:28 AM   #20
Lair
E46Fanatic
 
Lair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Council housing
Posts: 320
My Ride: 330ciC
Let 'em GTFO and see if they can earn all that profit in the Caymans.
__________________

Quote:
If you ever want to see what I mean by the arbitrariness of categories, check the situation of polarized politics. The next time a Martian visits earth, try to explain to him to why those who favor allowing capital punishment also oppose the elimination of a fetus in the mother's womb.
Congratulations.
Lair is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use