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Old 02-28-2013, 06:35 AM   #1
Act of God
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Transgender First Grader: Child Abuse?

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/28/sc...ls-bathroom/2/
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“The parents of Coy Mathis have filed a charge of discrimination with the Colorado division of Civil Rights,” part of the statement said. “They have chosen to publicize this matter by appearing on a nationally televised show with their child, sharing their point of view with national and local media, and holding a public press conference to announce the filing of the charge. The District firmly believes it has acted reasonably and fairly with respect to this issue.”

(The nationally televised show was “Katie,” a syndicated talk show hosted by journalist Katie Couric.)

School officials are concerned about what will happen to the child later on — in middle school and high school — when gender and sexuality will be more important to all the other students, KOAA says.
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At the press conference, Kathryn Mathis told reporters that Coy began to identify as a girl “as soon as she could express herself.” She described Coy as restless and generally miserable before the parents decided to permit the transgender child to dress like a girl and act like a girl.

“We couldn’t get her to leave the house, go the playground, play with friends,” Mathis said, according to KMGH. “She would break down crying. She was so deeply unhappy and a three-year-old or four-year-old shouldn’t be that unhappy and that was when we sought professional help.”


Coy Mathis is a triplet (along with a brother, Max, and a sister, Lilly). There are two other siblings as well, one older and one younger.

Since the school district changed its policy, the family has taken Mathis out of school.

The Coy Mathis saga is the first-ever legal challenge under Colorado’s Anti-Discrimination Act of a transgender person’s ability to use the bathroom assigned to a particular gender.
I don't know how I feel about this, but my gut reaction is that this is very poor parenting and borderline child abuse. I highly doubt a 3-4 year old has the self-realization to be clinically depressed because he has to dress like a boy.

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Old 02-28-2013, 06:40 AM   #2
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:01 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/28/sc...ls-bathroom/2/


I don't know how I feel about this, but my gut reaction is that this is very poor parenting and borderline child abuse. I highly doubt a 3-4 year old has the self-realization to be clinically depressed because he has to dress like a boy.

Board thoughts?
Considering it says the parents sought professional help I would say not to go with you guy feeling. It doesn't sound anywhere like "child abuse". With all your experience in childhood psychology I don't think you qualify as an expert to doubt causes of depression in a 3 or 4 year old.

Who knows how many cases psychologists deal with that involve children and identity. I don't, do you?
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:42 AM   #4
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:52 AM   #5
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...not really
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:56 AM   #6
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...not really
I challenge you to explain why it belongs here. But we know you cannot. Learn to post in the correct forums.


Bro.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:19 PM   #7
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I challenge you to explain why it belongs here. But we know you cannot. Learn to post in the correct forums.


Bro.
It involves the law and a civil rights lawsuit m this is no different than a gay marriage thread which you have never, ever, objected to. I don't know what your problem is but you haven't meaningfully contributed to a thread in weeks it seems. Seems like you are in violation of the rules regarding trolling.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:27 PM   #8
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It involves the law and a civil rights lawsuit m this is no different than a gay marriage thread which you have never, ever, objected to. I don't know what your problem is but you haven't meaningfully contributed to a thread in weeks it seems. Seems like you are in violation of the rules regarding trolling.
So a woman bring suit against a company who fired her because she got pregnant would wide up in PoliTalk based on your logic.

Learn to post in the right forum. In the meantime, there is a 4-page thread going on in the right forum.

Go complain about the lack of meaningful contributions there.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:08 AM   #9
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...so Coy is a boy acting like a girl? The article keeps saying "she". I'm confused.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:57 AM   #10
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http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=973540
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:03 AM   #11
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That has got to be one of the worst pieces of writing ever....is it a boy acting like a girl?

My personal opinion, I agree with AoG's first post.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:35 AM   #12
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Gender is far more complex than simply having boy/girl bits in some conveniently clear-cut binary fashion.

As for my own experience as the daddy of a 15 m.o. boy, it was very clear that, regardless of his boy bits, he emotionally/personality was a stereotypical boy, even well before he was aware of his own physical parts or even our own influence (tried to be neutral, but really, what gender behaviors can you impart on some baby a few months old when all you're doing is jamming mush in one end and cleaning up the other?) -- kind of astounded my wife and I at how clear that was. Even at six months, he was fussing with anything mechanical, turning over toy cars to figure out how they worked, and had about zero interest in dolls, teddy bears or anything more stereo-typically female (I swear the kids going to be an engineer).

I could readily see how through some genetic mix up a kit could be born with the bits of one gender yet the brain/personality/emotions of another. Let the kid's own personality/behavior/sense-of-self be the determinant and go from there.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:41 AM   #13
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Gender is far more complex than simply having boy/girl bits in some conveniently clear-cut binary fashion.

As for my own experience as the daddy of a 15 m.o. boy, it was very clear that, regardless of his boy bits, he emotionally/personality was a stereotypical boy, even well before he was aware of his own physical parts or even our own influence (tried to be neutral, but really, what gender behaviors can you impart on some baby a few months old when all you're doing is jamming mush in one end and cleaning up the other?) -- kind of astounded my wife and I at how clear that was. Even at six months, he was fussing with anything mechanical, turning over toy cars to figure out how they worked, and had about zero interest in dolls, teddy bears or anything more stereo-typically female (I swear the kids going to be an engineer).

I could readily see how through some genetic mix up a kit could be born with the bits of one gender yet the brain/personality/emotions of another. Let the kid's own personality/behavior/sense-of-self be the determinant and go from there.
If you study child psychiatry, you will learn that everything you said is the OPPOSITE of your intended statements. It is completely meaningless. If your son was playing with your wife's makeup, it is completely meaningless. All it means is he might like the colors. He might like the brushes. Hell, maybe because he likes the smell of powder. My daughter (2.5 years old) likes to play with my craftsman sockets. Why? Because they are shiny and make a fun noise when smashed together. One of her first words was "Jeep." Is she a "car girl?" No. Jeep is incredibly easy for a child to say. My daughter plays with hot wheels, then when my wife comes home, she starts asking for jewelry, putting on my wifes heels, etc.

As for your son...his "like" for things "mechanical" is actually more simple than that. Your son likes toys with leverage and pivot points. Kids love that stuff. They love moving parts back and forth on a pivot point.

There is ZERO significance in child behavior at that age. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of sh!t. If your son wants to play with a barbie, it has nothing to do with his "feelings" his gender, or anything else. If your daughter is playing with your Dewalt, it is absolutely meaningless.

BTW, if you have a "normal" son, and you had the ability to isolate him, you can easily raise him to believe he is a girl..or a dog, or a superhero. Part of raising a child is to guide them in their development. I wanted my daughter to be a righty, so I made sure I placed everything in her right hand....etc...not everything is so pre-programmed like people claim.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:44 PM   #14
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If you study child psychiatry, you will learn that everything you said is the OPPOSITE of your intended statements. It is completely meaningless. If your son was playing with your wife's makeup, it is completely meaningless. All it means is he might like the colors. He might like the brushes. Hell, maybe because he likes the smell of powder. My daughter (2.5 years old) likes to play with my craftsman sockets. Why? Because they are shiny and make a fun noise when smashed together. One of her first words was "Jeep." Is she a "car girl?" No. Jeep is incredibly easy for a child to say. My daughter plays with hot wheels, then when my wife comes home, she starts asking for jewelry, putting on my wifes heels, etc.

As for your son...his "like" for things "mechanical" is actually more simple than that. Your son likes toys with leverage and pivot points. Kids love that stuff. They love moving parts back and forth on a pivot point.

There is ZERO significance in child behavior at that age. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of sh!t. If your son wants to play with a barbie, it has nothing to do with his "feelings" his gender, or anything else. If your daughter is playing with your Dewalt, it is absolutely meaningless.

BTW, if you have a "normal" son, and you had the ability to isolate him, you can easily raise him to believe he is a girl..or a dog, or a superhero. Part of raising a child is to guide them in their development. I wanted my daughter to be a righty, so I made sure I placed everything in her right hand....etc...not everything is so pre-programmed like people claim.
Are you saying that you study child psychiatric?

The bold:
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:47 PM   #15
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Are you saying that you study child psychiatric?
Most maitre d's have a background in developmental psychology.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:51 PM   #16
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Most maitre d's have a background in developmental psychology.
Touche. They certainly appear to be a master of all trades, jack of none.

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Old 02-28-2013, 01:02 PM   #17
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Most maitre d's have a background in developmental psychology.
You seem to have quite an opinion on the subject....

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Forcing a child to conform to your preconceived notions of gender roles/norms when their gender identity differs from their biological gender can be seen as child abuse when taking into considering the emotional distress caused by your rejection of who your child is as a person.

I can only imagine your disappoint had you fathered a gay son.

....eventhough you rub your fatherhood into a sock.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:59 PM   #18
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Are you saying that you study child psychiatric?

The bold:
My father is chief of psychiatry at his hospital. When I had my daughter, I did actually study child psychiatry in order to have an easier time parenting/raising my daughter, and having a decent understanding of why she did/does certain things. If I have trouble understanding something (I read my father's medical books) I just consult with him.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:37 PM   #19
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I wanted my daughter to be a righty, so I made sure I placed everything in her right hand....etc...not everything is so pre-programmed like people claim.
I just want to chime in on this.

Everyone has always told me that I "write like a lefty." I have some manner of writing in my right hand which is common of most lefties. After taking notes in class, the side of my hand normally has tons of graphite on it.

No one taught me to write this way, it naturally felt correct to me. I remember teachers in school telling me as a kid I wasn't writing properly and would use those little rubber pencil holder things to try and force my hand in the "correct" position, but in the end, I kept writing the "wrong" way.

That being said:

- I throw with my right hand
- I bat lefty
- I snowboard goofy
- I punch/kick with my right hand and foot
- I spin like a lefty (snowboarding and skating, I naturally want to spin to the left)
- There are many occasions in which my left arm or leg feel more natural, or stronger, or easier to use, in really specific and odd scenarios. I can't tell you exactly which ones.

So, I was being raised in a manner like you are saying: people in school were telling me to write like a righty. But all evidence in my life points to the complete and utter opposite. Yes, there are many things that are pre-programmed, and many other things that can be learned.

One can learn to be ambidextrous, but we will always naturally start off with one dominant side that is pre-programmed.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:52 AM   #20
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Well, I would tend to agree, that at but a year or two its too earlier to make any gender-identity declaration based on a few behaviors.

However, I do think my broader points are still valid, that gender identity is more complex than having specific (or unspecific in some cases) boy or girl bits and that gender identity is an inherent part of a person's nature from day one, not simply some fully flexible thing that can be nurtured one way or the other. So yes, even if junior takes a liking to Barbie or your girl grows fond of impact wrenches will not bend them to suddenly assume some new, different gender identity (whatever that even means, really).

Which brings me back to my point that the child's own apparently well-developed sense of gender identity should be the main determinant in how to treat him/her rather than simply checking off which body bits he has and insisting he comports to that happenstance of biology.
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