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Old 04-11-2013, 03:03 PM   #1
Act of God
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Rand Paul faces Howard University

Interesting tactic to try to break on through. He also, in my opinion, made some really good arguments and points. Unfortunately, the delusional race baiters also made an appearance.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...niversity.html
Quote:
'We'll have to see what the Howard students thought,' Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul shouted from an elevator Wednesday afternoon, answering MailOnline's question about whether his foray into winning the hearts and minds of black youths was successful.

Paul, a Republican darling who is already laying the groundwork for a 2016 presidential run with a coming appearance in New Hampshire, had just wrapped up a two-hour appearance at the Howard University School of Business.

Howard is among the U.S. colleges classified as 'historically black,' and the audience of approximately 300 included few white faces apart from those belonging to reporters.

'Some have said that I'm either brave or crazy to be here today,' Paul told the students, acknowledging the seeming incongruity of a Republican competing openly for the support of young African-Americans.

'I've never been one to watch the world go by without participating. I wake up each day hoping to make a difference,' he said.

Brian Menifee, a Howard student, unfurled a banner in the middle of Paul's remarks that indicated how much of an uphill climb Republicans have in front of them.

'Howard University Doesn't Support White Supremacy,' the banner read, a picture of which was taken outside by a Huffington Post reporter.

Campus police tackled him and released him outside the building, but the audience heard him shouting 'Yo, get the f--- off of me!' as he was led away.
Manifee said after the event that police 'threw me to the ground.'

'I wasn't saying that Paul is a white supremacist,' he told MailOnline. 'But he's the product of white privilege, so take that for whatever you think it means. It takes some real you-know-what for a white Republican to come here and speak.'


Asked if he had ever protested a white Democratic speaker with the same banner, Manifee replied, 'Well, no. We just made the banner for this event. But Bill Clinton was the last - maybe the only - white Democrat to show up at Howard and talk to us like we were grown-ups.'
In that light, Paul's appearance was especially ground-breaking. He took questions about mandatory minimum sentences for non-violent drug offenders, and earned his biggest applause of the day by declaring that a 'one size fits all' approach to federal prison sentences puts young blacks at an unfair disadvantage.
'Our federal mandatory minimum sentences are simply heavy handed and arbitrary,' he said. 'They can affect anyone at any time, though they disproportionately affect those without the means to fight them.
'We should stand and loudly proclaim enough is enough. We should not have laws that ruin the lives of young men and women who have committed no violence.'
But while he supports Kentucky's recent move to legalize the industrial production of dope, he said, he doesn't endorse illicit use of marijuana.
'I think if you use it too much, you will lose IQ points,' Paul insisted, only half-joking.
'I think if you use it too much, you won't show up for class. I think you'll eat too many Doritos.'
Paul's larger societal point, though, was about the Republicans' failure to articulate what he said was a proud history of blazing civil-rights trails in ways that benefited blacks.
Most of the founders of the NAACP, he reminded the students, were republicans.


And it was racists in government - not nameless, faceless, Klansmen - who were most responsible for keeping black voters away from the polls through two-thirds of the twentieth century.
'The history of African-American repression in this country rose from government-sanctioned racism,' Paul explained. 'Jim Crow laws were a product of bigoted state and local governments.'
'Big and oppressive government has long been the enemy of freedom, something black Americans know all too well. We must always embrace individual liberty and enforce the constitutional rights of all Americans-rich and poor, immigrant and native, black and white.'
The GOP, he continued, was the party of Abraham Lincoln and emancipated slaves.
'How did that party become the party that now loses 95 per cent of the African-American vote?'
Republicans, he said, 'face a daunting task. Several generations of black voters have never voted Republican and are not very open to even considering the option.'
'Democrats still promise unlimited federal assistance and Republicans promise free markets, low taxes, and less regulations that we believe will create more jobs.'
'The Democrat promise is tangible and puts food on the table,' he conceded, 'but too often doesn't lead to jobs or meaningful success.'
'The Republican promise is for policies that create economic growth. Republicans believe lower taxes, less regulation, balanced budgets, a solvent Social Security and Medicare will stimulate economic growth.'
My favorite part of the night (video in link)

http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2...o_help_me.html

Quote:
Howard University student to Sen. Rand Paul: "Good afternoon, Senator. My name is Keenan Glover, I'm an administration of justice major from Rochester, New York. A freshman, as well. You say you want to provide a government that leaves us alone. Quite frankly, I don't want that. I want a government that is going to help me. I want a government that is going to help me fund my college education. I want a government that won't define me by my FAFSA or by my family's income. I'm a dollar sign with a heartbeat in this nation. This society is a mirror image of Capitol Hill. Do you, Senator Rand Paul, have a solution to come up with new American values so that the citizens of this nation have a worth of more than dead presidents and Ben Franklin?"


Rand's response was well put.
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Old 04-11-2013, 03:43 PM   #2
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He should have asked them which party filibustered the '64 civil rights act. See how smart these kids really are.

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Old 04-11-2013, 04:22 PM   #3
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He should have asked them which party filibustered the '64 civil rights act. See how smart these kids really are.
Who cares about that? The modern Republican Party absorbed the disaffected Dixiecrats as part of Nixon's southern strategy in the 70s. The Republican Party can trace its roots back to Lincoln, but the party has changed drastically since then.

A white man going into a black audience and reminding them that a Republican politician freed their ancestors 150 years ago is the epitome of bad taste. This is the kind of tone-deafness that absolutely kills Republicans in the battle to control the news cycle.

Rand Paul had good intentions, but his game plan was shitty. And part of the reason why is because he is a person of great privilege who isn't used to talking to people who have faced a lot more adversity growing up than most white people in the country.

There is a winning Republican message that can be made to blacks and other minorities. But the Republican Party, for a host of reasons, can't effectively market that message.
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:53 PM   #4
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Who cares about that? The modern Republican Party absorbed the disaffected Dixiecrats as part of Nixon's southern strategy in the 70s. The Republican Party can trace its roots back to Lincoln, but the party has changed drastically since then.

A white man going into a black audience and reminding them that a Republican politician freed their ancestors 150 years ago is the epitome of bad taste. This is the kind of tone-deafness that absolutely kills Republicans in the battle to control the news cycle.

Rand Paul had good intentions, but his game plan was shitty. And part of the reason why is because he is a person of great privilege who isn't used to talking to people who have faced a lot more adversity growing up than most white people in the country.

There is a winning Republican message that can be made to blacks and other minorities. But the Republican Party, for a host of reasons, can't effectively market that message.
What's more racist, trying to end entitlement programs that primarily help minorities or intentionally keeping minorities on entitlement programs to ensure votes?

What's more racist, believing that hard work can make a difference or telling people that the game is rigged, you can't win and you need to be taken care of?

In my opinion, soft racism aka treating blacks and minorities like helpless inept children, is far more demeaning and racist to the bone.
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:52 PM   #5
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What's more racist, trying to end entitlement programs that primarily help minorities or intentionally keeping minorities on entitlement programs to ensure votes?

What's more racist, believing that hard work can make a difference or telling people that the game is rigged, you can't win and you need to be taken care of?

In my opinion, soft racism aka treating blacks and minorities like helpless inept children, is far more demeaning and racist to the bone.
And which entitlement programs primarily help minorities. Certainly not welfare. There are more non-hispanic whites on welfare than there are hispanics or blacks.

Just because a game is rigged doesn't mean you can't win, it just makes it much harder to win. (I guess you have never rigged a game with unbalanced dice or worked a midway.)
If you think the game is not rigged, just by base economics alone...forget about race, you are clearly delusional.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:09 PM   #6
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And which entitlement programs primarily help minorities. Certainly not welfare. There are more non-hispanic whites on welfare than there are hispanics or blacks.

Just because a game is rigged doesn't mean you can't win, it just makes it much harder to win. (I guess you have never rigged a game with unbalanced dice or worked a midway.)
If you think the game is not rigged, just by base economics alone...forget about race, you are clearly delusional.
The game isn't rigged. You don't need to be a CEO to win. You don't need to be in the 1% to win. Why can't you people get that through your heads?

Anyone that works hard can be self-sufficient and moderately successful. I'd wager that in 2013 being a bright hard-working minority gets you to the front of the line just about everywhere in fact.

There's more whites on welfare? OMG NO WAY, you cracked the case wide open Matlock
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:57 PM   #7
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There is a winning Republican message that can be made to blacks and other minorities. But the Republican Party, for a host of reasons, can't effectively market that message.
This coming from a supply-side econ, free-market worshiper, like you Rapier7. I am shocked.

If you can't effectively market and sell your product it isn't a winning product. You can have the greatest product in the world, if nobody buys it, it isn't a winning product.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:03 AM   #8
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Rand Paul had good intentions, but his game plan was shitty. And part of the reason why is because he is a person of great privilege who isn't used to talking to people who have faced a lot more adversity growing up than most white people in the country.

There is a winning Republican message that can be made to blacks and other minorities. But the Republican Party, for a host of reasons, can't effectively market that message.
@ white people
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:51 AM   #9
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Who cares about that? The modern Republican Party absorbed the disaffected Dixiecrats as part of Nixon's southern strategy in the 70s. The Republican Party can trace its roots back to Lincoln, but the party has changed drastically since then.

A white man going into a black audience and reminding them that a Republican politician freed their ancestors 150 years ago is the epitome of bad taste. This is the kind of tone-deafness that absolutely kills Republicans in the battle to control the news cycle.

Rand Paul had good intentions, but his game plan was shitty. And part of the reason why is because he is a person of great privilege who isn't used to talking to people who have faced a lot more adversity growing up than most white people in the country.

There is a winning Republican message that can be made to blacks and other minorities. But the Republican Party, for a host of reasons, can't effectively market that message.
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Old 04-11-2013, 03:47 PM   #10
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Interesting tactic to try to break on through. He also, in my opinion, made some really good arguments and points. Unfortunately, the delusional race baiters also made an appearance.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...niversity.html


My favorite part of the night (video in link)

http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2...o_help_me.html





Rand's response was well put.
So you obvisiously disagree with Glover's view as the role of government. How do you view the role of government? What responsibility does the government have to its people?

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Old 04-11-2013, 04:06 PM   #11
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The OP is race baiting. Ironic.
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:50 PM   #12
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In my opinion, soft racism aka treating blacks and minorities like helpless inept children, is far more demeaning and racist to the bone.
Kind of like Chris Hissyfit Matthews being full of shock and awe that a black presidential candidate could form a complete sentence.

He speaks so well...He speaks the king's english!

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Old 04-11-2013, 05:52 PM   #13
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Who cares about that? The modern Republican Party absorbed the disaffected Dixiecrats as part of Nixon's southern strategy in the 70s. The Republican Party can trace its roots back to Lincoln, but the party has changed drastically since then.

A white man going into a black audience and reminding them that a Republican politician freed their ancestors 150 years ago is the epitome of bad taste. This is the kind of tone-deafness that absolutely kills Republicans in the battle to control the news cycle.

Rand Paul had good intentions, but his game plan was shitty. And part of the reason why is because he is a person of great privilege who isn't used to talking to people who have faced a lot more adversity growing up than most white people in the country.

There is a winning Republican message that can be made to blacks and other minorities. But the Republican Party, for a host of reasons, can't effectively market that message.
You're right, they suck at conveying that message. I'm more curious if these fine college kids actually know history. I'm willing to bet they don't.

I love your broad brush btw.

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Old 04-11-2013, 06:14 PM   #14
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If you can't effectively market and sell your product it isn't a winning product. You can have the greatest product in the world, if nobody buys it, it isn't a winning product.
Like solyndra.

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Old 04-11-2013, 07:30 PM   #15
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I heard that Rand Paul got his ass handed to him by some lowly history-ignorant black college kid.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:12 PM   #16
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Rand Paul had good intentions, but his game plan was shitty. And part of the reason why is because he is a person of great privilege who isn't used to talking to people who have faced a lot more adversity growing up than most white people in the country.

There is a winning Republican message that can be made to blacks and other minorities. But the Republican Party, for a host of reasons, can't effectively market that message.
**** that, to assume only people other than Caucasin can face adversity is absurd. Additionally, Rand was speaking to a group of people who are privileged enough to attend college so either they had good parents or the kids figured out the what **** is really going in the world and made that college happen on their own, right?
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:15 PM   #17
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**** that, to assume only people other than Caucasin can face adversity is absurd. Additionally, Rand was speaking to a group of people who are privileged enough to attend college so either they had good parents or the kids figured out the what **** is really going in the world and made that college happen on their own, right?
lol apparently he didn't realize these were all college students and not crack babies.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:22 AM   #18
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**** that, to assume only people other than Caucasin can face adversity is absurd. Additionally, Rand was speaking to a group of people who are privileged enough to attend college so either they had good parents or the kids figured out the what **** is really going in the world and made that college happen on their own, right?
Nail. On head.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:22 AM   #19
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**** that, to assume only people other than Caucasin can face adversity is absurd. Additionally, Rand was speaking to a group of people who are privileged enough to attend college so either they had good parents or the kids figured out the what **** is really going in the world and made that college happen on their own, right?
Ah, yeah. But college still isn't a guarantee of success. They're still going to face discrimination and prejudice for the rest of their working lives.

Look at it this way, the average black college graduate makes 52k per year. The average white college graduate makes 73k per year. Source: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpsta...pinc04_000.htm

If a black person looks at that data, how do you think they would explain that income disparity? That they are less hard working than whites? That they're less intelligent than whites? Chances are, they'll think that because whites have always been the dominant (and therefore normal) racial demographic in the United States, that they have an ingrained advantage in our current economic system.

When black people go into a job interview, they have to contend with a lot of baggage associated with their race. Because black people have stereotypes on their work ethic, attitude, speech that get engrained both in their minds and the mind of their prospective employer. If you think that doesn't exist or that it doesn't affect outcomes, you're wrong. It does.

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wow, Azn jimmies rustled. My family came here with nothing. My parents didn't go to college. One (immigrant) grandfather was a bartender, the other (immigrant) ran a junk shop. Yes, I'm so privileged...douche.
The color of your skin has no important stigmas attached to it. With blacks it's a much different story. That is the type of privilege minorities talk about when they talk about white privilege. The privilege to not be prejudged solely on the color of their skin.

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The fact that those kids are going to college probably means they will be better off than the average black in America. Those are the exact kids that can go far with hard work. The last thing they need (or anyone) is pretentious clueless academics telling them that without government they can't make it. You're doing the same thing.

A black kid growing up in the ghetto with a drug addict single mom has the same chance as a white kid growing up in the sticks with a drug addict single mom. This has nothing to do with color, except you want it to be nothing but color. I find it insulting that you assume that every white kid is well off and could never face the adversity of a poor minority. Looks like you harbor some serious biases, you should talk to someone about it.
You're wrong. The white kid growing up poor with a drug addicted single mom has a better chance of making it in life. White people, across every significant measurable socioeconomic status, do better than black people. And it's not because they're more intelligent and hardworking.

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Oh yeah, how about Rand Paul's (correct) argument that "free" education makes education unaffordable? Are you able to comprehend this?
I do understand that generous subsidies in education have made education much more expensive. At this point, you'd have to be a fool not to comprehend that.

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edit: Continuing thought, we've been throwing money at the problems you brought up for decades. Nothing changes, nothing gets better. The progressive solution? MORE money. Get the hint, it isn't about money. You can transfer all the wealth you want but if the culture or mindset of poor people doesn't change it won't make a difference. There's a reason most lottery winners go broke in a year or two.
First off, you gotta understand that your argument just looks so much weaker when you just make up a statistic at the very end. Yes, a lot of lottery winners go bankrupt and, yes, they go bankrupt because they are financially ignorant. But think about what you just said. >50% of lottery winners go broke in 2 years or less. Can you back that **** up or is that just some vague preconception floating around in your head?

Second, the guy isn't talking about student loans at a policy level. He's talking about paying for his own tuition with his circumstances. I doubt he cares about the implications of subsidies on the cost of college. He wants help now.

Think of all the things the chattering classes have talked about. Are you for publicly funded K12 education? How many times have you heard "a bachelor's is the new high school degree" or a "master's is the new bachelor's"? The upper middle class has been talking about education credential inflation for so long, how do you think it takes for that information to filter down to a person in the lower economic spectrum and think "hey, the government should pay for my college education because the elites are making it practically mandatory"?

You don't need to tell me that the cost of tertiary education is being inflated and escalated by the wide availability of education subsidies, but that guy doesn't care about policy. He cares about his own individual circumstances. He's not a politician or a policy analyst. He doesn't have the luxury of looking at a problem from a bird's eye view.

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Have you ever sold directly? Retail? Knocking on doors, cold call type selling?

"The problem isn't what we're selling. It's how we're selling it."
Why is it I always hear that from people who are trying to sell an uncompetitive product. Politics is, in many the ways, the ultimate consumer selling experience. There are people knocking doors, cold calling, and trying to sell that product/candidate/political party in grocery store parking lots. Not to mention that in elections advertising is KING!!

Sometimes you have to except that consumers need to be coaxed away from your competition. You have to bring them around in steps. Throw an ipad over the tech wall in 1988 and it would have sunk like a stone. The consumer wouldn't want it because they didn't know they wanted it. You have to make them want it. And you have to have infrastructure in place to allow them to use it. How many people are going to hook their ipads up to a 1200 baud modem that they also carry around with them and a phone cord to go with it and a serial cable to connect the modem to the ipad. (And don't even get me started about data speeds) Apple tried that, it was called the newton, and.....it sunk like a rock.

Maybe you have a "great product". If the consumer doesn't buy it (and part of that may be how you are selling it) its not a great product. It might be a great idea/thing/innovation/etc. But, a great product its not.

Did you ever stop to think...maybe...just maybe...it is the product. It might not even be a bad idea or design, but, if its not selling chances are it is the product.
You're kind of contradicting yourself here. So do I have to change the product or change the marketing? I say it's the latter.

Anyways, I don't want to get too deep in analogies here. Do I think Republicans need to fundamentally change their policy prescriptions? No. There are a few tweaks here and there that need to be worked out, but that happens in the legislative process. Winning elections is all about marketing. And right now, the Republicans have a brand with negative public perception. That makes it extraordinarily hard to win elections at a national level.
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:57 AM   #20
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You're kind of contradicting yourself here. So do I have to change the product or change the marketing? I say it's the latter.
The point I am making is "both" is the answer. The GOP needs a better/different product and they need to market it better.

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Anyways, I don't want to get too deep in analogies here. Do I think Republicans need to fundamentally change their policy prescriptions? No. There are a few tweaks here and there that need to be worked out, but that happens in the legislative process. Winning elections is all about marketing. And right now, the Republicans have a brand with negative public perception. That makes it extraordinarily hard to win elections at a national level.
Change their policy prescriptions in certain areas like reproductive rights, same-sex marriage, & "family values". Stop taking the tack that everybody on welfare is just a lazy free loading good-for-nothing that wants everything for free. The welfare system needs to be overhauled and more restrictive (but not eliminated), and come up with a plan to do just that. Those are all part of their policy prescriptions as well.

Maybe they could come up with legislation for a true flat-tax system. Perhaps it is brought in as a slightly graduated flat tax. X%, X+1% above 100K, X+2% above 500K, X+3% above 1Mil. The gripe about taxes I have heard for decades (at least since the 70's) is not that the working class/middle class believe that as a percentage of income it is they that are getting screwed. Not to mention it would simplify the tax code.

Those are all changes to their "product". They are also changes that might help them market more effectively.

IMO, to start to be competitive they need to do both. They lost a presidential election to an incumbent with a worse economic record than Jimmy Carter. They could have put up a giraffe in a suit and won and should have been able to win that election. Not only didn't they win the electoral vote, they lost the popular vote by over 3 million as well. 3 million out of 130 million may not seem like a lot. But, it is a healthy margin when you consider the circs.
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