Misconceptions about FI on an M54..

Originally Posted by Attaus

Normally I would agree, but he gained 7 mph..

You are comparing two different tracks on two different days.

I ran a 13.239 @ 105.69 at Gainesville on a similar night to Julio's best time there, I ran a 13.5 @ 104 at Orlando. I was stock for Gainesville, I had drag radials, LTW flywheel, and a clutch that actually grabs for Orlando. I should have run faster, in gainesville I would have been ~13.0, Orlando is a MUCH slower track.

That was my point. I can attest that his car is faster, and FYI he has FI cams.

I'll wait to see what he has to say.. I don't want to speculate.


What cams are they?

Originally Posted by BimmerDude18

I've seen actually comparisons between setups on the Z's.

My point was this, STS runs a smaller exhaust turbine to keep the spool RPM's down some. This means that at high CFM (read high load high RPM) the exhaust housing is a larger restriction, read less efficient. They then run a decently large intake housing so that they can make more power.
This is true and i talked with them about this and they wanted me to upgrade to the larger exhaust housing. This was only done because of the bmw and 350z have smaller motors and it's an assumption that the larger housings would cause lag. I just did not feel comfortable upgrading the housing as I am fine with the system just like it is and how well it respond.
This results however, in the turbo being less efficient at higher power levels, than a turbo with a larger exhaust housing (which if placed at the manifold would spool about the same).

As for oil lines - long oil lines just mean more potential areas for leaks, more oil in the system, and more work to get it set up. It works fine, but its something to consider.

You get that heat point out from the engine bay, which is huge, but in turn, you pull fresh air from a low point on the car, so driving in the rain can be more dangerous.
Rain is not an issue and it's no more than what you would get with the filter at the front of the car. Most of the setups have the filter located in the rear fender keeping it away from the ground
Like I said, I'm not anti rear mount, I'm impressed by how they are doing on the Z's, and if there was a better tuning option than reflash (long story on why I say this) for my car I'd be a bit psyched about putting one in myself. The tuning becomes cost prohibitive quickly though.

I debated about the STS turbo for a long time before deciding to go that route. I was at a dyno day spraying my nitrous system when this guy pulls up in a 350z and i saw the turbos mounted in the back. I never seen them up close before until that moment so I told the guy i was undecided and if he would take me for a ride in his Z. Well that car spooled somewhere between 2900-3000rpms and scared the crap out of me with how powerful it was with two 200+lbs guys riding in such a little car. 1st 2nd, and 3rd gear was just enough to convince me. I got home and the next day I ordered the system. If i had to do it again i would. I would never want to run a front mounted setup on my car period. But that's just from my personal preference.

Originally Posted by Attaus

I'll wait to see what he has to say.. I don't want to speculate.


What cams are they?

I think they were shrick 248/254's. He bought them from VAC, there is more that I'm sure he'd share through PM, I doubt he'll be on for a bit though, his gf is in town.

Originally Posted by Attaus

I'll wait to see what he has to say.. I don't want to speculate.


What cams are they?

The cams he is currently running are the 248/256 FI spec schrick cams. However, on his setup they did not really provide any noticeable power gains. Dyno numbers did not increase, and using my car as a constant, his was not any faster.

Julios car on high boost ~12psi + meth is good for 112mph+ trap at the very least.

Are you guys 100% sure that they're installed correctly? I know I don't have to tell you that it's super simple to screw up a cam install on these cars. That just doesn't make sense.

And please tell me those wheels are going on your car

Originally Posted by Activ3

The cams he is currently running are the 248/256 FI spec schrick cams. However, on his setup they did not really provide any noticeable power gains. Dyno numbers did not increase, and using my car as a constant, his was not any faster.

Julios car on high boost ~12psi + meth is good for 112mph+ trap at the very least.

Originally Posted by aggieE46

Are you guys 100% sure that they're installed correctly? I know I don't have to tell you that it's super simple to screw up a cam install on these cars. That just doesn't make sense.

And please tell me those wheels are going on your car

That definitely crossed our minds... However, the shop that did the install builds some pretty serious e46 racecars/motors, so we kind of counted that out.

Originally Posted by aggieE46

Are you guys 100% sure that they're installed correctly? I know I don't have to tell you that it's super simple to screw up a cam install on these cars. That just doesn't make sense.

And please tell me those wheels are going on your car

There is another possibility that will be explored soon. He is building the motor, so it won't be a "leave good enough alone" situation with the cams.

Originally Posted by aggieE46

Are you guys 100% sure that they're installed correctly? I know I don't have to tell you that it's super simple to screw up a cam install on these cars. That just doesn't make sense.

And please tell me those wheels are going on your car

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=678833

My comments in red.

Originally Posted by GTUnit

Sorry I should clarify. Aluminum HEADS are better for keeping detonation at bay. Block material not as critical in that respect.

Yes properties make them better in some regards logical no. But if you are right you need to patient this and make a contract with HPF it seems they have been overlooking a key component for a 1000+hp M3.

Thats not how you do it. You MUST keep the charge temps down because fuel will ignite on its own (without the spark) if the temps are too high. Thats where octane comes in. Higher octane fuel is not better, it doesnt have more energy, it is just more stable at higher temperatures.... so you can run more boost, more compression, and higher temps. Even then that fuel has a limit.

If you keep the charge temps down then you can run more boost and thats where you build power. You have to remember the engine materials and fuel have physical limits under which they are controllable and will operate properly.

I'm very familiar with detanotation. I like to think of myself being in rotary exhile at the moment until the new seven arrives. All of my turbo experience comes from 13b's and 13b-msp's. Rotaty motors are much more susceptable to detonation than any piston motor. Its not logical to use a totally different block just for the need to lower your IAT's especially if you may be lowering turbine effientcy as well. Have you any knowledge of turbo systems, inter-coolers, meth injection, turbo effeicenticy levels/selection, cooler plugs and richer afr's. I've even seen bags of ice on intake manni's (not recommended). These turbo system components are alot easier and better than aluminum blocks and heads. In most cases its the hot spark plug cathode (not the spark) that triggers detonation in a rotary (along with compression and iat).


Yes but what concerns me the most is the ecu control and integration into existing systems. That is VERY difficult to get right without dumping the stock engine controls and going stand alone.

I agree but it can be done when and if the right equipment and a good tuner it is avaliable. These good tuners don't all work for TT, bonniville, or any of the other acredited companys we know.

Originally Posted by Attaus

Nice man I'm glad you like it. But in your sig it looks like you only gained .3 seconds off the 1/4 mile? You might want to swap that cam for a boost profile.. something with no overlap will increase your gains.

My best time Naturally Aspirated time at Bithlo (the worst track ever) is a 14.1@96. I picked up 11mph, with a worse launch, on the wastegate spring. When NA, I once went to Bithlo on a wed night, ran 14s all night. Then, I went to Gainesville that Saturday and never ran worse than a 13.8, improving with every run, running up to 100mph trap. ET has VERY LITTLE to do with output when compared, say, with trap speeds. The trap speed is like a dyno on the cheap. 107 on 7psi, no meth at a horrible drag strip, managing to never pull better than a 2.1 60', I consider an absolute success. I really wanted to run my car at Gainesville, and a few days after I went to Bithlo, I went to Gainesville, but it got rained out, I still have my rain check. That night, it dried up a bit and I ran right outside the dragstrip, the flattest ground in Gainesville, and pulled a 110.8mph and several 110.5+'s trap with a 220lbs passenger on his performance box. With meth and elevated boost, my car was quick, I think that on a gracious dyno, I could see over 400whp. On a mustang, I think around 350-360. .3 seconds means i didn't pull a 1.8 60' that took me to 13.6's, i was launching in the 2+ sec range.

Originally Posted by aggieE46

Are you guys 100% sure that they're installed correctly? I know I don't have to tell you that it's super simple to screw up a cam install on these cars. That just doesn't make sense.

And please tell me those wheels are going on your car

Irish Mike's has built many, many m54s, in his class he holds the record lap time at Sebring with a e46 325i. I trust that his cam install is correct, it throws no codes and allows vanos to play around, unlike the 264/248 setup. I still think that the 264/248 setup wasn't bad for turbo apps. It still remains to be tested.

Originally Posted by Attaus

Normally I would agree, but he gained 7 mph..

at that track, i picked up more, as i said previously... the fact that i picked up "7"mph and .3 secs kinda proves the point that ET isn't telling the entire story.

Originally Posted by Attaus

I'll wait to see what he has to say.. I don't want to speculate.


What cams are they?

248/256 schrick

Ah, ok that makes more sense. Get some new times up there!

Originally Posted by Attaus

Ah, ok that makes more sense. Get some new times up there!

Convince him to join me wednesday (at Bithslow again, but its better than nothing).

Originally Posted by BimmerDude18

Convince him to join me wednesday (at Bithslow again, but its better than nothing).

best case scenario in my current setup: I trap 110... I care not at all about ET at bithlow... I also need to replace my guibo and balance my driveshaft. MY 6speed driveshaft is off balance, it threw away a 3 month old guibo, I don't care how much torque i'm making, HPF cars don't throw theirs.

What I have learned about guibos: e36 M3 and e46 M3 guibo, same part number, and $10 cheaper than a nonM guibo. I got the M part, for poker run I will not have my driveshaft rebalanced, but shortly thereafter, it takes almost 10 days to send it to california and get it back

Those look fantastic. BTW, have you thought of slapping FI cams on yours?

Originally Posted by Activ3

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=678833

Originally Posted by aggieE46

Those look fantastic. BTW, have you thought of slapping FI cams on yours?

in the theme of the nonM team answering questions directed at each other. Well, go to e46nonm.com, David's doing a b30 build and documenting it there. He plans to fire up the b30 with b25 cams and later do the 248/256 swap

Ahhh, yes. I actually read that but forgot that detail. Good to know.

Originally Posted by bluejeansonfire

in the theme of the nonM team answering questions directed at each other. Well, go to e46nonm.com, David's doing a b30 build and documenting it there. He plans to fire up the b30 with b25 cams and later do the 248/256 swap

Originally Posted by bluejeansonfire

in the theme of the nonM team answering questions directed at each other. Well, go to e46nonm.com, David's doing a b30 build and documenting it there. He plans to fire up the b30 with b25 cams and later do the 248/256 swap

I went to Davids build and saw something he did that i would like to discuss why and the benefits of doing this that way. Anyone know how to reach him.

Originally Posted by ritos530i

I went to Davids build and saw something he did that i would like to discuss why and the benefits of doing this that way. Anyone know how to reach him.

Well, you can PM him, he posted in this thread... Activ3....
...are you speaking of horizontal porting?