E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 06-03-2009, 09:23 PM   #21
ari00
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 963
My Ride: 04 330ci
I don't know. By no means am I doubting the results of the study, nor do I ever doubt JPR, but I beat the living snot out of my motor. Almost 125k miles on it, and it pulls like the day I bought it. I've replaced the gasket seal twice and did the VANOS seals recently too. Everything looks and is near perfect...no sludge/carbon buildup, and all 6 cylinders pumped out near perfect #s in a compression test. My oil's been changed between 3-6k miles, and I have no doubt I'll get well over 200k miles out of it. While I understand and respect the test, I don't think I can be persuaded to change my ways. Not because I think I'm right and they're wrong, but just because what I've been doing works fine for me.
ari00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 09:24 PM   #22
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by eu_miki_80@yahoo.c View Post
so you guys agree with this but you do not agree with BMW recommendation regarding lifetime transmission fluid?
This article is not about E46 BMWs specifically. Thats why i'm doing my own personal oil analyses. An analysis can provide me with information about my car specifically, and E46s in general to a certain extent. I'm not saying that 15k is the best, or even 12k. I'm saying that a shorter OCI doesnt mean better protection. Same goes for extra long, but most of us already knew this part.
jeffro3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 09:26 PM   #23
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by ari00 View Post
I don't know. By no means am I doubting the results of the study, nor do I ever doubt JPR, but I beat the living snot out of my motor. Almost 125k miles on it, and it pulls like the day I bought it. I've replaced the gasket seal twice and did the VANOS seals recently too. Everything looks and is near perfect...no sludge/carbon buildup, and all 6 cylinders pumped out near perfect #s in a compression test. My oil's been changed between 3-6k miles, and I have no doubt I'll get well over 200k miles out of it. While I understand and respect the test, I don't think I can be persuaded to change my ways. Not because I think I'm right and they're wrong, but just because what I've been doing works fine for me.
This is why the service indicator counts mileage based on fuel consumption, not actual mileage. Harder driving = less mpg = more frequent oil changes.

BMW may not be a perfect car company, but they're way ahead of you on this.
jeffro3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 09:28 PM   #24
eu_miki_80@yahoo.c
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: detroit mi
Posts: 139
My Ride: 99 323i, 2000 323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by cngzsn View Post
maybe we could, if you explain us what do the two have to do with each other?
SAE recommends this thing about engine oil and you trust them. But BMW states that their transmission fluid is lifetime and most people here change it at 30 or 40k miles. so you trust SAE but you dont trust BMW.
eu_miki_80@yahoo.c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 09:31 PM   #25
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by eu_miki_80@yahoo.c View Post
SAE recommends this thing about engine oil and you trust them. But BMW states that their transmission fluid is lifetime and most people here change it at 30 or 40k miles. so you trust SAE but you dont trust BMW.
I believe BMW has retracted their "Lifetime" claim. I'm not 100% sure though so if someone could verify that would be awesome.

You have to keep in mind that BMW is a company looking to make money. It would be naive to think that they always do whats best for your car and never whats best for their profits.
jeffro3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 09:39 PM   #26
bumere46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dunk City, FL
Posts: 1,228
My Ride: E92
Audi and Mercedes claim that their cars have lifetime transmission fluid.
If Germans say 15k oil change, then there is a reason for it.
bumere46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 09:40 PM   #27
eu_miki_80@yahoo.c
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: detroit mi
Posts: 139
My Ride: 99 323i, 2000 323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffro3000 View Post
I believe BMW has retracted their "Lifetime" claim. I'm not 100% sure though so if someone could verify that would be awesome.

You have to keep in mind that BMW is a company looking to make money. It would be naive to think that they always do whats best for your car and never whats best for their profits.
yeah but at the same time they want to keep their reputation as good quality cars. wouldnt you say that?
eu_miki_80@yahoo.c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 09:45 PM   #28
SeanC
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 4,040
My Ride: 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by eu_miki_80@yahoo.c View Post
SAE recommends this thing about engine oil and you trust them. But BMW states that their transmission fluid is lifetime and most people here change it at 30 or 40k miles. so you trust SAE but you dont trust BMW.
Lifetime tranny fluid is no longer BMW's claim, so I don't know what you're talking about
__________________

Sapphire Black MetallicNatural BrownSilver Cube e46 330i ZHP/ZCW/6MT - Sold
HellrotDove Grey e36 ///M3 - RIP
Alpine WhiteTanSand High Gloss e46 330i SunRoofLess/5MT
SeanC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 09:46 PM   #29
SeanC
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 4,040
My Ride: 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by eu_miki_80@yahoo.c View Post
yeah but at the same time they want to keep their reputation as good quality cars. wouldnt you say that?
Of course that would be ideal. But quality and profits don't go hand in hand most of the time. Wouldn't you say that
__________________

Sapphire Black MetallicNatural BrownSilver Cube e46 330i ZHP/ZCW/6MT - Sold
HellrotDove Grey e36 ///M3 - RIP
Alpine WhiteTanSand High Gloss e46 330i SunRoofLess/5MT
SeanC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 09:51 PM   #30
eu_miki_80@yahoo.c
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: detroit mi
Posts: 139
My Ride: 99 323i, 2000 323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by cngzsn View Post
Lifetime tranny fluid is no longer BMW's claim, so I don't know what you're talking about
ok i dont want to argue with you i just said my opinion.
eu_miki_80@yahoo.c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 09:57 PM   #31
bumere46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dunk City, FL
Posts: 1,228
My Ride: E92
Quote:
Originally Posted by eu_miki_80@yahoo.c View Post
yeah but at the same time they want to keep their reputation as good quality cars. Wouldnt you say that?
+1
bumere46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 09:59 PM   #32
eu_miki_80@yahoo.c
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: detroit mi
Posts: 139
My Ride: 99 323i, 2000 323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by cngzsn View Post
Of course that would be ideal. But quality and profits don't go hand in hand most of the time. Wouldn't you say that
you are right. thats why GM an Chrysler are in bankruptcy because they offered good quality cars and quality doesnt go hand in hand with profit
eu_miki_80@yahoo.c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 10:02 PM   #33
bumere46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dunk City, FL
Posts: 1,228
My Ride: E92
Quote:
Originally Posted by eu_miki_80@yahoo.c View Post
you are right. thats why GM an Chrysler are in bankruptcy because they offered good quality cars and quality doesnt go hand in hand with profit
I wouldn't agree with you.
GM and Chrysler are WORLD Leaders!
Big people fall first.
bumere46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 10:04 PM   #34
SeanC
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 4,040
My Ride: 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by eu_miki_80@yahoo.c View Post
you are right. thats why GM an Chrysler are in bankruptcy because they offered good quality cars and quality doesnt go hand in hand with profit
I said "most of the time". There is no question that BMW quality has suffered a lot while their profits hit the ceiling within the last 10 years.
__________________

Sapphire Black MetallicNatural BrownSilver Cube e46 330i ZHP/ZCW/6MT - Sold
HellrotDove Grey e36 ///M3 - RIP
Alpine WhiteTanSand High Gloss e46 330i SunRoofLess/5MT
SeanC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 10:12 PM   #35
eu_miki_80@yahoo.c
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: detroit mi
Posts: 139
My Ride: 99 323i, 2000 323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumere46 View Post
I wouldn't agree with you.
GM and Chrysler are WORLD Leaders!
Big people fall first.
GM started to make good cars in the past 10 or 15 years but they have to stay in business to build a reputation like BMW has. i hope they will cause i live in Detroit so everyone here is affected by their bankruptcy.
eu_miki_80@yahoo.c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 10:46 PM   #36
xi_ter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 2,221
My Ride: 2003 325xi
Interesting, seems like the friction-fighting components need some mileage to bind to the parts they are protecting. I've been using 7,500 mi.
__________________
xi_ter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 10:55 PM   #37
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by eu_miki_80@yahoo.c View Post
yeah but at the same time they want to keep their reputation as good quality cars. wouldnt you say that?
Their service schedule is more than enough to keep the car running under the warranty period. The warranty period is the only time when they're responsible for the car.
jeffro3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 10:57 PM   #38
TKC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Jose, CA & Dallas, TX
Posts: 20,233
My Ride: 330cic & R6
Send a message via AIM to TKC
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffro3000 View Post
Yea you're right. No one knows more than you.
Re-read my post. No where in there did I say I knew it all...or anything for that matter. I simply stated that I've always changed my oil at 5k and in all my years and many cars, not to mention the 4 I have right now, 2 of which are over 100k miles and 1 at over 200k miles and all run like a champ, I see no need to change my habits due to your article.

And if you'd get off the articles' nuts, I can quote parts of it just like you, it's just that you choose to focus on certain sentences that lead you to say,
"Those of you who change oil every 3-5k to be on the "safe side" are being counterproductive" when NO WHERE in that article does it say that.

Here are the counter highlights:
Quote:
Abstract:

Engine oils are subjected to a series of industry standard engine dynamometer tests to measure their wear protection capability, sludge and varnish formation tendencies, and fuel efficiency among several other performance attributes before they are approved for use in customer engines. However, these performance attributes are measured at the end of tests and therefore, do not provide any information on how the properties have changed during the tests. In one of our previous studies it was observed that engine oil samples collected from fleet vehicles after 12,000 mile drain interval showed 10-15% lower friction and more importantly, an order of magnitude lower wear rate than those of fresh oils. (FRESH OILS, NOT every 3-5k AS YOU PUT IT) It was also observed that the composition of the tribochemical films formed was quite different on the surface tested with the drain oils from those formed with fresh oils. The objective of this investigation is to demonstrate how the friction and wear performance changed with oil drain intervals. A fleet of three vehicles was run in Las Vegas and oil samples were collected at various drain intervals from 3,000 miles to 15,000 miles. As in the previous study, the results showed that the aged engine oils provide lower friction and much improved wear protection capability. These improvements were observed as early as the 3,000 mile drain interval and continued to the 15,000 mile drain interval.(I like how you skipped just this sentence in your bolding....these improvements were observed as early as the 3k mile to 15k miles....which CLEARLY 3-5k falls between, which you claim "Those of you who change oil every 3-5k to be on the "safe side" are being counterproductive.") The composition of tribochemical films formed on the surface with the 3,000 mile drain interval is similar to that formed with the 12,000 mile drain interval as seen before. These findings could be an enabler for achieving longer drain interval although several other factors must to be considered.Exactly.
Meh, no need to debate this further with you. Like I said originally, my cars run great.
__________________
EUROPROJEKTZ - Director, NorCal Chapter
TKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 10:58 PM   #39
//TRD power
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zero Maintenanceville
Posts: 2,561
My Ride: 3.0 | 200hp | 214trq
finally, we'll get less oil threads!
__________________
//TRD power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 11:01 PM   #40
eu_miki_80@yahoo.c
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: detroit mi
Posts: 139
My Ride: 99 323i, 2000 323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffro3000 View Post
Their service schedule is more than enough to keep the car running under the warranty period. The warranty period is the only time when they're responsible for the car.
we are talking about reputation here not about responsability
eu_miki_80@yahoo.c is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use