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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 10-02-2009, 11:35 AM   #1041
edmancheung
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Hi Rajaie,

I ordered your seals two years ago and never installed them. They have been sitting in a drawer away from light all that time. I took them out of the package, and it still seems pliable. Should I order a new set since this has been sitting around? How long is their shelf life sitting around O2 and not bathed in oil?

Any new changes to the seal compound formula?

Let me know, the Vanos has 98,500 miles on it and I am now seeing a huge drop in mileage, bouncing of the RPMs, hesitation, and Vanos rattle. So time to delve into the project and get those little buggers replaced, but before I do I just want to make sure I can use the new seals from two years ago or if I need to order a new set. I dont' want to have to replace them again down the road.

TIA!!!

Last edited by edmancheung; 10-02-2009 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 10-02-2009, 12:04 PM   #1042
easyIsle
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^ good question! I've only had your seals 6 months or so, but also just sitting around on a shelf away from light.

Any problems with lifetime? Should I put a little oil in the bag with them to keep them fresh? Keep them at any specific temperature?

I do plan on putting them in soon but so many other projects with higher priority attached need attention first. Doh!
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:09 PM   #1043
richyboycaldo
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I did the VANOS seals and VANOS pistosn, and I still get the CPS error code. I bought a NEW bilstein CPS and I did not work, and I tried it with a "used" CPS froma auto wreck and I still have the same code. I alread drove 500 miles witht the seals so they are alread broekn in.
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Old 10-03-2009, 06:54 AM   #1044
vladvm
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Exclamation

I think I stripped this bolt with a faulty torque wrench! I am not sure if it is really stripped but I would like to know if this can be removed. Can anybody help me get the part number for the bolt in red circle?


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Old 10-03-2009, 12:18 PM   #1045
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladvm View Post
I think I stripped this bolt with a faulty torque wrench! I am not sure if it is really stripped but I would like to know if this can be removed. Can anybody help me get the part number for the bolt in red circle?


It's #13 on this parts diagram.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...13&hg=11&fg=15

The stud is likely being pulled out of the engine head. The head is soft Aluminum and this can happen. If you decide to repair it you will need a 6mm helicoil. They have this at Autozone. Be sure you get the complete kit as you need the 7mm tap. You will unscrew the stud. Tap the hole with the 7mm tap. Screw in the helicoil. Then screw in the new stud. To screw and unscrew the stud, mount two nuts back to back on the stud and tighten them together. This will give you a hex to use a 10mm socket on.
This is not terrible. Don't be intimidated by it.
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:22 PM   #1046
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richyboycaldo View Post
I did the VANOS seals and VANOS pistosn, and I still get the CPS error code. I bought a NEW bilstein CPS and I did not work, and I tried it with a "used" CPS froma auto wreck and I still have the same code. I alread drove 500 miles witht the seals so they are alread broekn in.
I presume you have a P1397 fault code. Be sure to use a new OEM (dealership) sensor. Aftermarket sensors don't work.
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:35 PM   #1047
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edmancheung View Post
Hi Rajaie,

I ordered your seals two years ago and never installed them. They have been sitting in a drawer away from light all that time. I took them out of the package, and it still seems pliable. Should I order a new set since this has been sitting around? How long is their shelf life sitting around O2 and not bathed in oil?

Any new changes to the seal compound formula?

Let me know, the Vanos has 98,500 miles on it and I am now seeing a huge drop in mileage, bouncing of the RPMs, hesitation, and Vanos rattle. So time to delve into the project and get those little buggers replaced, but before I do I just want to make sure I can use the new seals from two years ago or if I need to order a new set. I dont' want to have to replace them again down the road.

TIA!!!
The seals are fine. The concern would be the Viton O-ring (brown). These have a shelf life of 20 years. They should be kept in a sealed container, like the product bag, and kept out of the light.

We changed the Teflon material starting Oct 15 08. We figured out what the OEM Teflon material is. It has a high grade carbon filler. We were using a standard carbon filler. We are having better results with the OEM filler. The seals are taking 200 miles instead of 500 miles to break-in. Also there can be rough running and codes at first. These problems are notably reduced with the OEM filler.
The standard carbon filler we were using is good and there's no need for anyone to be concerned. I have this in my car.

Contact me privately and I can swap out your seals kit with a new one.
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:39 PM   #1048
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easyIsle View Post
^ good question! I've only had your seals 6 months or so, but also just sitting around on a shelf away from light.

Any problems with lifetime? Should I put a little oil in the bag with them to keep them fresh? Keep them at any specific temperature?

I do plan on putting them in soon but so many other projects with higher priority attached need attention first. Doh!
You have nothing to worry about. Just keep them in the sealed product bag and away from light.
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Old 10-03-2009, 08:50 PM   #1049
devedean
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Originally Posted by devedean View Post
Yes. I made sure to follow your step by step directions exact. I replaced both seals for each groove, lubricated them with new engine oil, and made sure the pistons moved smoothly in their cylinders during reassembly. I'll remove and clean the VANOS exhaust solenoid and piston and let you know the results.

Number 4 and 5 are the most likely causes. Is it possible to mess up the engine timing when re-attaching the VANOS to the cylinder head?
I pulled the exhaust solenoid and cleaned it but there was no change to the codes or engine performance. It still throws the "VANOS, faulty exhaust reference value", idles rough, and chokes when letting out the clutch at low rpms. I'm at a loss now.....
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Old 10-04-2009, 02:02 AM   #1050
Rajaie
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Originally Posted by devedean View Post
I pulled the exhaust solenoid and cleaned it but there was no change to the codes or engine performance. It still throws the "VANOS, faulty exhaust reference value", idles rough, and chokes when letting out the clutch at low rpms. I'm at a loss now.....
When did you first get the P1520?
When you replaced the crankcase vent valve, did you also replace the 4 hoses?
Did you inspect the idle control valve air intake boot branch? This gets cracks in the outer elbow accordion valleys.
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Old 10-04-2009, 11:35 AM   #1051
Chriztofor
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Almost 90,000 views...why isn't this stickied yet? This is a cheap and helpful fix/solution for all e46 owners.
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For most BMW problems start off by reading your codes using a peake research tool. Note, as mentioned by other members, although Autozone checks your codes for free they use a generic OBDII tool that does not have the BMW specific fault codes.
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Old 10-04-2009, 12:16 PM   #1052
vladvm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
It's #13 on this parts diagram.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...13&hg=11&fg=15

The stud is likely being pulled out of the engine head. The head is soft Aluminum and this can happen. If you decide to repair it you will need a 6mm helicoil. They have this at Autozone. Be sure you get the complete kit as you need the 7mm tap. You will unscrew the stud. Tap the hole with the 7mm tap. Screw in the helicoil. Then screw in the new stud. To screw and unscrew the stud, mount two nuts back to back on the stud and tighten them together. This will give you a hex to use a 10mm socket on.
This is not terrible. Don't be intimidated by it.

Hey thanks.

Anyone who are going to replace the seals, please confirm if this indeed can be unbolted, I already put back everything together and would rather make sure I can take it off before I disassemble the car again. Thanks!


Oh by the way I have been doing 15k mile oil changes GC 0W30 and my engine looks like this inside...Engine has 120k miles.



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Old 10-06-2009, 03:08 PM   #1053
devedean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
When did you first get the P1520?
When you replaced the crankcase vent valve, did you also replace the 4 hoses?
Did you inspect the idle control valve air intake boot branch? This gets cracks in the outer elbow accordion valleys.
I brief history of my problem:

Approximately 6 months ago I was beginning to get engine hesitation when letting out the clutch at a stop light. I ordered your seals and replaced the VANOS seals along with changing spark plus and all valve cover gaskets. The car ran beautifully for approx. 50 miles and then started idling horribly to the point where it would almost stall and had zero power. The SES light came on and the idle seem to normalize, but it was still rough and the light remained on. Without reading the codes decided to replace both intake and exhaust CPS (OEM brand). There was no change and so I brought it to my indy mechanic where he read the P1520 code along with multiple misfires.

To rule out bad coils he replaced them all along with a redline oil change and engine flush. The codes came back immediately and the issue wasn't resolved. I went ahead and replaced the CCV calve along with all 4 hoses. I inspected the idle control valve boot as well as the intake boot while I was in there and there were no cracks evident. I also cleaned the exhaust VANOS solenoid per your recommendation to no avail.

This brings me to today: P1520 and multiple random misfires, rough idle, and hesitation when letting out the clutch at a stop light (more pronounced after the car is hot after driving for a while).
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:02 PM   #1054
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devedean View Post
I brief history of my problem:

Approximately 6 months ago I was beginning to get engine hesitation when letting out the clutch at a stop light. I ordered your seals and replaced the VANOS seals along with changing spark plus and all valve cover gaskets. The car ran beautifully for approx. 50 miles and then started idling horribly to the point where it would almost stall and had zero power. The SES light came on and the idle seem to normalize, but it was still rough and the light remained on. Without reading the codes decided to replace both intake and exhaust CPS (OEM brand). There was no change and so I brought it to my indy mechanic where he read the P1520 code along with multiple misfires.

To rule out bad coils he replaced them all along with a redline oil change and engine flush. The codes came back immediately and the issue wasn't resolved. I went ahead and replaced the CCV calve along with all 4 hoses. I inspected the idle control valve boot as well as the intake boot while I was in there and there were no cracks evident. I also cleaned the exhaust VANOS solenoid per your recommendation to no avail.

This brings me to today: P1520 and multiple random misfires, rough idle, and hesitation when letting out the clutch at a stop light (more pronounced after the car is hot after driving for a while).
Maybe you didn't install the sparkplugs correctly. When you screw them in you will first get resistance. You should then continue to tighten them for ~1/3 turn till they fully tighten. If you didn't fully tighten they will come loose and cause your symptoms after maybe 50 miles.

Take out and clean the idle control valve.

You might have a clogged fuel filter.

Your pre-cat O2 sensors are due for replacement. They have a lifespan of 100k miles. They usually fail by over enriching the air/fuel mix so it wouldn't cause your symptoms. But you will get worsening gas mileage.

Disconnect the MAF electrical connector. If the problems completely resolve then it might be the MAF. Disconnecting the MAF will cause the DME to enrich the air/fuel mix and this will hide a vacuum leak. So you have to be careful with this test.

Were the CPS sensors new? Did you get them from a BMW dealership? Do they have a BMW logo on them?
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:08 PM   #1055
jbeurotech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
Maybe you didn't install the sparkplugs correctly. When you screw them in you will first get resistance. You should then continue to tighten them for ~1/3 turn till they fully tighten. If you didn't fully tighten they will come loose and cause your symptoms after maybe 50 miles.

Take out and clean the idle control valve.

You might have a clogged fuel filter.

Your pre-cat O2 sensors are due for replacement. They have a lifespan of 100k miles. They usually fail by over enriching the air/fuel mix so it wouldn't cause your symptoms. But you will get worsening gas mileage.

Disconnect the MAF electrical connector. If the problems completely resolve then it might be the MAF. Disconnecting the MAF will cause the DME to enrich the air/fuel mix and this will hide a vacuum leak. So you have to be careful with this test.

Were the CPS sensors new? Did you get them from a BMW dealership? Do they have a BMW logo on them?
Hey your back in one piece. The Brits swimming in the pond was funny!!!!
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:20 PM   #1056
supratter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladvm View Post
Hey thanks.

Anyone who are going to replace the seals, please confirm if this indeed can be unbolted, I already put back everything together and would rather make sure I can take it off before I disassemble the car again. Thanks!


Oh by the way I have been doing 15k mile oil changes GC 0W30 and my engine looks like this inside...Engine has 120k miles.
yes you can take the stud out by following rajae suggestion of the 2 nuts tightened together, you can then do the helicoil if the stripped part was in the threads on the head, if it was the threads of the actual stud then just replace with the same stud
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:25 PM   #1057
Rajaie
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Hey your back in one piece. The Brits swimming in the pond was funny!!!!
Great to have met you Seth. It was a fun 4 days at the BIMRS meeting. The pond swim was the climax event.
It's impressive to see how young you are and that you're the teacher of so many senior BMW mechanics.
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:40 AM   #1058
burntass
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I just started reading through alot of this, and it sounds like most e46 models will eventually need to have their seals replaced even thought my car is not exhibiting those symptons. Does that sound right? I've got 63000 miles on mines (2002 325cic) and i'm seriously considering getting one of the kits. Or should I just wait until the symptons appear first?
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:50 AM   #1059
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burntass View Post
I just started reading through alot of this, and it sounds like most e46 models will eventually need to have their seals replaced even thought my car is not exhibiting those symptons. Does that sound right? I've got 63000 miles on mines (2002 325cic) and i'm seriously considering getting one of the kits. Or should I just wait until the symptons appear first?
Although you are not aware of it, your vanos seals are fully failed.
Replacing them should provide significant performance improvements.
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:58 AM   #1060
vladvm
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good to know. I am not sure if the bolt broke or the nut stripped. But i will definitely keep an eye and see if there are oil leaks here, otherwise I might just leave it there and replace it if I ever have to replace the vanos seals again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by supratter View Post
yes you can take the stud out by following rajae suggestion of the 2 nuts tightened together, you can then do the helicoil if the stripped part was in the threads on the head, if it was the threads of the actual stud then just replace with the same stud
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