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Old 06-05-2009, 12:59 AM   #1
radarcontact
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Question WANTED: Technical info for ('06) E46 Convertible stock HK system

{UPDATE: FOUND INFO; SEE MY LATEST POST BELOW}

I'm hoping you guys can help me out.

I'm trying to find out about the stock HK system so I know how to improve it.

For instance:

How many speakers, and where? I assume 3/front door (tweeter/high mid, low mid), 2 per rear interior QP (coax), plus 1 sub in ski pass?

What ohm are the speakers? Should be 4, but many OEM producers "cheat" by going lower. What are their efficiency?

How many amps? What power do they put out, into what ohm, etc. Where are THEY located?

BSW guys???

PLEASE, IF YOU KNOW A LITTLE, THAT HELPS -- EVENTUALLY I'LL PIECE IT ALL TOGETHER...thanks.

Last edited by radarcontact; 06-25-2009 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:21 AM   #2
Blackrain1965
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I would like to know this as well. Also thinking the vert acoustics are different then a sedan.....like having a speaker with a six foot port in the top
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:47 AM   #3
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I have actually compiled some good info. I will get it posted within the next day or so...stay tuned!
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:19 AM   #4
ca1242
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On the vert, you have the head unit driving a main amplifier. This amplifier has very little power and feeds each speakers in the car individually. Amp feeds signal to a second amp that drives the sub.

What exactly are you trying to achieve/upgrade?
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:28 PM   #5
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Lightbulb Here's everything I could find (long...!)

First let me say that I did not write or research any of this info. I have been scouring this and other forums collecting bits and pieces. Unfortunately, I can NOT give credit where credit is due, and I'm sorry that I am plagiarizing people's work.

That said, I also cannot guaranty its accuracy...here goes:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As for your subwoofer, the OEM HK convertible 8" sub receives around 20W. DO NOT try to run an aftermarket subwoofer on the OEM amplifier output. You won't be happy. If you're set on trying to fit an aftermarket sub where the OEM 8" driver goes (not sure how, but maybe it's possible), do yourself a favor and get an amplifier for it.

Also, be sure to get an IB (infinite baffle aka "free air") capable subwoofer.
Finally, for the record regarding impedances and power outputs since everyone wants to know:

Harman Kardon E46:
Front / Rear midbass: 3 Ohm
Front Midrange: 3 Ohm
Front Tweeter: 8 Ohm
Rear Midrange (Coupe / Sedan only): 3 Ohm
Rear Tweeter (Convertible only): 8 Ohm

Standard E46:
Front / Rear Midbass: 2 Ohm
Front Midrange: 8 Ohm
Front Tweeter: 8 Ohm
Rear Midrange (Coupe / Sedan only): 8 Ohm
Rear Tweeter (Convertible only): 8 Ohm

As for power output of the HK amp, you've got enough power to drive nearly any tweeter or midrange effectively provided they aren't extremely inefficient. Your big concern is power output to the midbass drivers. Real output is around 15-20W RMS, but ONLY at the correct impedance. So you need a driver that is:

- VERY efficient
- Impedance matched
- Provides an excellent front/rear seal to the door panel (i.e. sized / shaped correctly)


+++++++++++++++++++


Subwoofer, I don't have a stock mounting depth.

Tweeter - ~5/8in
Midrange - ~1 3/8in
Midbass - ~ 2 5/8in

++++++++++++++++++

Just in case you are curious these are the songs on my “test CD”:
- Hybrid Theory - Linkin Park
- December - Collective Soul
- You Oughta Know - Alanis Morissette
- Call Me - Blondie
- Sunglasses at Night - Corey Hart
- Drops of Jupiter - Train
- Meet Virginia - Train
- Home - Sheryl Crow
- Hold On - Santana
- Don't Do Me Like That - Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers
- Refugee - Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers
- Time and Tide - Basia
- Last Chance - Shooting Star
- Brand New Day - Sting
- Love Theme from "The Saint" Soundtrack
- Devil Inside - INXS

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The notation I used below is:
Pin # xx / Signal
(main wire color) / (wire stripe color)
no connection literally means that there is not a wire in the factory harness at that pin.
Signal name followed by an * are signals that I believe to be correct, the color code is verified with the harness etc, but I did not personally use these signals in the upgrade so I can not claim to have proven the connections out personally. In particular I did not verify the +/- polarity of the factory mid range speakers. The non-* signals lines I am using to run the upgraded system so I am sure they are correct (at least for my car).

The harness connector pin numbers are embossed on the plastic. There are two “halves” to the connector, looking at the female harness connector its pin lay out looks like this:

Grey ½ of connector
Pin # 13 / Tweeter Rear Right door + * Yellow Pin # 21 / Tweeter Rear Right door - *Blue / yellow
Pin # 12 / Tweeter Front Right - Blue / Brown Pin #20 / no connection
Pin # 11 / Tweeter Front Right + Blue / black Pin #19 / no connection
Pin # 10 / Switched +12v remote turn on White Pin #18 / no connection
Pin # 9 / Head unit output Front Right + Blue / red Pin #17 / Head unit output Front Right - Brown / orange
Pin # 8 / Head unit output Rear Right + Blue / black Pin #16 / Head unit output Rear Right - Brown / orange
Pin # 7 / no connection Pin #15 / no connection
Pin # 6 / no connection Pin #14 / no connection
Pin # 5 / +12v factory amp +12v supply *Red / green
Pin # 4 / Woofer Front Left +Blue / white
Pin # 3 / Woofer Front Left -Blue / brown
Pin # 2 / Woofer Rear Left +Yellow
Pin # 1 / Woofer Rear Left -Brown

Black ½ of connector
Pin # 34 / Tweeter Front Left - Yellow / brown Pin # 42 / Mid Front Right door + *Green
Pin # 33 / Tweeter Front Left + Yellow / red Pin #41 / Mid Front Right door - *Blue / green
Pin # 32 / Tweeter Rear left door - * Yellow / brown Pin #40 / Mid Front left door + *White
Pin # 31 / Tweeter Rear Left door + * Yellow / black Pin #39 / Mid Front left door - *Blue / white
Pin # 30 / Head output Front left - Brown / orange Pin #38 / Head output Front Left + Yellow / red
Pin # 29 / Head output Rear Left - Brown / orange Pin #37 / Head output Rear Left + Yellow / black
Pin # 28 / no connection Pin #36 / no connection
Pin # 27 / no connection Pin #35 / no connection
Pin # 26 / DC ground factory ampBrown
Pin # 25 / Woofer Rear Right +Blue
Pin # 24 / Woofer Rear Right -Brown
Pin # 23 / Woofer Front Right +Blue / Red
Pin # 22 / Woofer Front Right -Blue / Brown

Pins 1-5 and 22-26 are heavier connections that then other pins, these are the ones that feed the woofers and provide power to the factory amp. I did not use the power connections for the factory amp for the ADS amp – the ADS can draw 30A and the factory connector had wire much to small for that type of current draw. Instead I powered the ADS amp directly (with safety fuses etc) from the battery (easy since BMW puts the battery in the trunk).

+++++++++++++

Okay-
Hopefully this will take the guess work out of swapping out speakers and upgrading. In my 2002 E46 M3 with HK sound I have the following speakers...

In the doors, three speakers each door, 6 total for the front stage as follows:
2x Tweeters
37mm/1.5inches overall diameter.
The dome is about .5-.75 inches.

2x Midranges (Top of door next to tweeter) 60mm/2.3inches overall diameter.
37mm/1.5inches overall depth/height.
53mm/2.0 magnet diameter

2x Midbass(Bottom of door)
160mm/6.29inches diameter metal speaker basket overall. Cone is 120mm/4.75inches.
Overall depth/height of speaker 65mm/2.5inches
Overall magnet diameter is 71mm/2.8inches
The overall diameter from bolt hole to bolt hole on center is 190mm/7.4inches on the PLASTIC mounting flanges of the adaptor the speaker is mounted in.
Also there is spacer/ring between the speaker and the door panel that offsets this driver from the door panel by 10mm and has roughly the same overal diameter as the driver. There is some additional space better this ring and the grill, about 20mm to be had with some careful triming.
Speaker Midbass is marked 21watt, 3ohm btw.

In the rear:
2x Tweeters (I didn't pull the panel and measure)

2x Midbass same exact demensions as above Midbass. Identical speaker. Outside edges of the reardeck

2x 6x9 woofers center of rear deck.

This makes for a total of 12 speakers. However, the tweeter and the mid in the upper-front door panel are both powered by one pair(positive and negative) wires. There is small resistor on the tweeter which I assume is the crossover. Even though the front looks like a 3-way system, and technically it is, it is not tri-wired, it is wired like a two-way from the amp.
These specs are for a E46 Coupe with HK, 4 door sedans are different because the front doors are shorter.
Note: These are the stock demension...this does not mean that this is the max speaker size you can fit. There is clearly some room for a deeper and larger 6.5midbass in the front lower doors with some trimming of the plastic. There is also probably another 20mm of additional depth available. Which would mean you can probably make a speaker with a overal depth of 65mm+20mm for 85mm/3.35in work there depending on how you mounted it.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:56 AM   #6
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As I said before, the weak links in the oem asystem are the anemic amplifiers. If you want real improvements over tyhe stock system, I would suggest trying to stay away from replacing speakers and looking at other options (head unit + speakers, amplifier + speakers or head unit + amplifier + speakers)
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Old 06-26-2009, 11:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1242 View Post
As I said before, the weak links in the oem asystem are the anemic amplifiers. If you want real improvements over tyhe stock system, I would suggest trying to stay away from replacing speakers and looking at other options (head unit + speakers, amplifier + speakers or head unit + amplifier + speakers)
Yes, that's well understood. The purpose of this thread is to help people know what they already have. To pull everything and replace everything is sort of a no-brainer, but that may not be possible or financially feasible for some. Just trying to educate myself and others...
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:06 PM   #8
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If an aftermarket sub system, like the BSW system, has it's own amp, does that mean the 20w of power sent by the OEM amp for the OEM sub can now be used for the other speakers? IE, does adding a sub amp help out the other 10 speakers?
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:18 PM   #9
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Adding a sub helps out with bass, but doesn't affect the other speakers at all.
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackrain1965 View Post
If an aftermarket sub system, like the BSW system, has it's own amp, does that mean the 20w of power sent by the OEM amp for the OEM sub can now be used for the other speakers? IE, does adding a sub amp help out the other 10 speakers?
ca1242 is correct, it will dramatically help out the system as a whole, but not the other speakers individually...sort of. If, theoretically, you can ask the other speakers to produce LESS BASS because your powered sub is taking care of that, then you can actually get more volume from the same WATTS (in a way) that are pushing your non-sub speakers. In other words, by turning down the system's overall BASS level, and then adding a sub to make up for that lost bass, you will now get more power to the mids and highs because low frequencies eat up power compared to higher frequencies. That's why a system of 6.5" and smaller speakers may be driven by 50 watts per speaker, but the one 12" subwoofer gets 250 watts all to itself.
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Old 07-03-2009, 12:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radarcontact View Post
ca1242 is correct, it will dramatically help out the system as a whole, but not the other speakers individually...sort of. If, theoretically, you can ask the other speakers to produce LESS BASS because your powered sub is taking care of that, then you can actually get more volume from the same WATTS (in a way) that are pushing your non-sub speakers. In other words, by turning down the system's overall BASS level, and then adding a sub to make up for that lost bass, you will now get more power to the mids and highs because low frequencies eat up power compared to higher frequencies. That's why a system of 6.5" and smaller speakers may be driven by 50 watts per speaker, but the one 12" subwoofer gets 250 watts all to itself.
Yep, this is on the money.

For the record, yes, the factory amplifier in both HK and Non-HK cars can stand to be replaced in the E46 for sure, but for a lot of people doesn't NEED to be replaced when speakers are upgraded -- especially when combined with a subwoofer for reasons outlined above.

As always, more specific information about what you want to enhance about your system will help us give the best suggestions.
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Old 07-18-2009, 01:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radarcontact View Post
ca1242 is correct, it will dramatically help out the system as a whole, but not the other speakers individually...sort of. If, theoretically, you can ask the other speakers to produce LESS BASS because your powered sub is taking care of that, then you can actually get more volume from the same WATTS (in a way) that are pushing your non-sub speakers. In other words, by turning down the system's overall BASS level, and then adding a sub to make up for that lost bass, you will now get more power to the mids and highs because low frequencies eat up power compared to higher frequencies. That's why a system of 6.5" and smaller speakers may be driven by 50 watts per speaker, but the one 12" subwoofer gets 250 watts all to itself.
Thanks for the clarification. Now, quick question, can the system perform well/better (or will the HK amp handle it) if I replace my 3-ohm OEM speakers with 2-ohm a/m speakers? What consequences will I be driving at if I go that route?
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Old 07-19-2009, 01:39 PM   #13
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^^^^^^^^^^^^6
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:02 PM   #14
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You keep asking the same question over and over in different threads.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1242 View Post
You keep asking the same question over and over in different threads.
My bad, you took a while to reply and wanted a response rather urgently. I value responses from my fellow fanatics more than some installer who looks rather ashen when you ask about installs in bimmers...
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:36 PM   #16
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Many330i -
I can't say for sure because the specs on the OEM amps are unknown. You found 2 ohm a/m speakers? Strange, they usually only go down to 3 ohms. But I don't think it would be an issue: one way to check, although a PITA, would be to use your current setup with the OEM amp exposed, and after a trip, check how hot it gets. Then replace the OEM speakers with the 2 ohm jobbies and do another check. If the amp gets significantly hotter, or you hear audible distortion, then it's not working out for ya'...
(Anyone else have any other/better ideas for the man?)
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:01 AM   #17
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Many330i -
I can't say for sure because the specs on the OEM amps are unknown. You found 2 ohm a/m speakers? Strange, they usually only go down to 3 ohms. But I don't think it would be an issue: one way to check, although a PITA, would be to use your current setup with the OEM amp exposed, and after a trip, check how hot it gets. Then replace the OEM speakers with the 2 ohm jobbies and do another check. If the amp gets significantly hotter, or you hear audible distortion, then it's not working out for ya'...
(Anyone else have any other/better ideas for the man?)
Thanks for the advice - the 2-ohms I found are JBL's and after further research on other forums I have learnt that actually their nominal impedance is 2.65ohms (~3ohms). Some actually claim that a 3-ohm rated amp is capable of handling 2-4ohm loads so I shouldn't worry too much about it. But then again they don't drive bimmers, so I figured I would come here for further assistance.
And one installer said "the weak part on the HK system is just the drivers - unless you are an audio-phile, replacing just the speakers will be adequate!" So which is which?
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:44 PM   #18
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Weak part of the HK system is speakers + amp. OEM amplifier is very weak.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:42 AM   #19
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Has anyone got an idea of where the radio tuner amplifier is located in a 2002 330ci Convertible? It is a Feb 02 model with the Mk3 Nav system and HK. I have recently bought a Dension Gateway as I was told by the seller that it will allow me to locate an ipod in the boot with the system. This is what the seller has just informed me.

"hi the gateway fits at the radio tuner/amplifier module located in the boot area it is a flat pin plug called a quadlock which will plug in as a t-piece. The ipod would then plug in at the back. The gateway was never deigned to plug onto the cd changer wiring. When installed the cd changer must be disconnected or the gateway will not function. Have you got a tv tuner? If so some re-wiring is required to keep tv audio which any reputable car audio shop should be able to do. For further advice you could call me no 02380292200 or 07787550221 we install all of the adaptors for our local BMW dealership so would be in a very good position to install the gateway for you if you are having problems. Please be assured that we are very keen to sort this issue for you asap."

Here is a link the to the actual part I bought
http://www.dension.com/index.php?pageID=32


Any help would be appreciated. Not sure if I trust the seller of the Dension Gateway I bought.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:04 PM   #20
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See our iPod integration kit install guide for that vehicle which outlines how to access the connections you'll need:

http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/pr...onvertible.pdf
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