Ft Hood Shootings..

This is tragic. I went through the building where the shooting occurred when I redeployed from Iraq almost 2 years ago. I'm surprised there were only 13 killed, it could have been much worse. You stand there in line for about 1 hour and the last thing you'd expect is for someone to start shooting.

Leadership must have been asleep at the wheel. Rule #1: Know your Soldiers. I'm pretty sure this could have been prevented.

Originally Posted by howie

y does this always happen in the ft hood/killeen area...like every few years

If you are referring to mass shootings then the only other incident I'm aware of is the Koresh/Waco standoff.

Training accidents? Yes, there have been quite a few.

Originally Posted by JoeVert

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33717790...hood?GT1=43001

I am confused here... How is it that a civilian police officer managed to get on base and to the shooter before any Military Police or guards?

They had Federal police officers on most military posts.

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Leadership must have been asleep at the wheel. Rule #1: Know your Soldiers. I'm pretty sure this could have been prevented.

As long as you live in a free society you have choices, some good some evil.
Just because he made remarks that were inappropriate and he was unpopular does not mean he could have been identified as a mass murdering traitor. Nobody could have prevented this.

As far as knowing your soldier....he has only been there since July.

Originally Posted by 6spzhp

I don't know. I would rather him have just been gone rather than spend thousands of dollars keeping him alive in the hospital, then his trial, and then in prison.

he is still a officer in the united states army therefore still able to receive free health benefits. whats probably gonna happen is recover from injuries, court martial, death penalty... so you got it down.

Originally Posted by JoeVert

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33717790...hood?GT1=43001



I am confused here... How is it that a civilian police officer managed to get on base and to the shooter before any Military Police or guards?

a news stationed interviewed a lt gen, he said that the officer was out close by the incident directing traffic at the time. some bases will contract non military civilians to work on base.

Originally Posted by M3_POWER

You in the AF stationed at Nellis AFB by any chance?

no i am not but i am from las vegas, i am stationed down in macdill afb. nellis afb has a sweet ass base exchange though.

RIP to the victims and I hope "proper" justice is served.

Its a sad day when your not even safe on a military installation!

Originally Posted by Raymond42262

As long as you live in a free society you have choices, some good some evil.
Just because he made remarks that were inappropriate and he was unpopular does not mean he could have been identified as a mass murdering traitor. Nobody could have prevented this.

As far as knowing your soldier....he has only been there since July.

I disagree. From a different subject, one of the major points of emphasis from Army leadership is suicide prevention. One thing that leadership is urging is more leadership involvement among the troops.

The disparaging remarks are punishable and should not have gone unchecked. I wouldn't have let that go. Some action should have been taken whether remedial or punitive.

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I disagree. From a different subject, one of the major points of emphasis from Army leadership is suicide prevention. One thing that leadership is urging is more leadership involvement among the troops.

The disparaging remarks are punishable and should not have gone unchecked. I wouldn't have let that go. Some action should have been taken whether remedial or punitive.

yea i was reading the article he was definitely showing signs of suicide. from giving belongings away to saying farewells in the early morning. but instead of a suicide ended being a chaos.

Originally Posted by dl1085

no i am not but i am from las vegas, i am stationed down in macdill afb. nellis afb has a sweet ass base exchange though.

Oh nice Macdill. I'm not too far from you. I'm at Naval Air Station Jacksonville. I absolutely love Nellis AFB. My dad is retired AF and he spent over half his career at nellis, indian springs and tonapoh. Born and raised in Vegas and very very familiar with nellis. Whats your afsc?

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I disagree. From a different subject, one of the major points of emphasis from Army leadership is suicide prevention. One thing that leadership is urging is more leadership involvement among the troops.

The disparaging remarks are punishable and should not have gone unchecked. I wouldn't have let that go. Some action should have been taken whether remedial or punitive.

I agree a hundred percent. But the guy was only there since July.
That was only 3 months ago. It takes a while to actually learn something about people and what they are like.

But yes, action should be taken against any soldier that is insubordinate, to include officers. In one article I read it said he had recently received a poor performance report. I guess he got a bad OER. I don't know. But it sounds like his leadership knew he was not the Army's best and brightest.

Originally Posted by Raymond42262

I agree a hundred percent. But the guy was only there since July.
That was only 3 months ago. It takes a while to actually learn something about people and what they are like.

But yes, action should be taken against any soldier that is insubordinate, to include officers. In one article I read it said he had recently received a poor performance report. I guess he got a bad OER. I don't know. But it sounds like his leadership knew he was not the Army's best and brightest.

I heard that he had recently made some negative remark while at Fort Hood. I guess we all should wait a couple of days to pass judgement.

I think his leadership at Walter Reed should be investigated. Apparently he made over remarks which apparently led to his bad OER. So I guess Walter Reed says "this guy is a sh1tbag, hey, let's send him to the highest optempo post in the Army! What a GREAT IDEA! That will show him!"

But hasn't Walter Reed been messing sh1t up for awhile now?

Eh, criticizing people for making any type of remotely religious remarks is a great way to get in a buttload of trouble. Until it is ok to criticize religious belief, people like him will be able to say whatever they want as long as it is backed up by religion. Religious rhetoric is totally ok with everyone right up until the guy starts spewing bullets instead of scripture.

The whole thing is completely tragic on so many levels.

Originally Posted by JonJon

http://www.scribd.com/NidalHasan

Has it been proven that it was him? Because from the article you posted, even after 6 months they still have yet to confirm if this was his writings.

Originally Posted by 6spzhp

"Survivors of the rampage said the suspect shouted "Allahu Akbar!" - "God is great!" in Arabic - before opening fire, according to Fort Hood base commander Lt. Gen. Robert Cone."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572571,00.html

Survivors of the rampage said the suspect shouted "Allahu Akbar!" - "God is great!" in Arabic - before opening fire, according to Fort Hood base commander Lt. Gen. Robert Cone. Cone said officials had not yet confirmed that Hasan made the comment.

I'd wait before making that conclusion if I were you.

Originally Posted by 6spzhp

maybe you should go preach in the middle east then.

Maybe you could stop being an intolerant prick to him, that might be a start on your end.

Originally Posted by NisoCrew

Eh, criticizing people for making any type of remotely religious remarks is a great way to get in a buttload of trouble. Until it is ok to criticize religious belief, people like him will be able to say whatever they want as long as it is backed up by religion. Religious rhetoric is totally ok with everyone right up until the guy starts spewing bullets instead of scripture.

The whole thing is completely tragic on so many levels.

The difference in this situation is that under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I'm not sure of the exact wording of the law but Officers are not allowed to make disparaging remarks against elected officials, Especially against the president and his policies.

If he disagreed with the war in Afghanistan, that's fine. According to military law, he cannot publicly disclose that. Which I believe he did.

Let's not even get into the possible security clearance implications. He probably should have lost his security clearance awhile ago and then he would have been kicked out of the Army.

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

The difference in this situation is that under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I'm not sure of the exact wording of the law but Officers are not allowed to make disparaging remarks against elected officials, Especially against the president and his policies.

If he disagreed with the war in Afghanistan, that's fine. According to military law, he cannot publicly disclose that. Which I believe he did.

^
The difference in this situation is that under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I'm not sure of the exact wording of the law but no one is allowed to make disparaging remarks against elected officials, Especially against the president and his policies.

corrected..

When I was at Ft Campbell and Clinton was president, the post commander said that if anyone was making inappropriate remarks about Clinton they would receive punishment under UCMJ...(article 15 ). Everyone was bashing him about Monica Lewinsky and being prosecuted, but he said he was still our commander in chief and as long as he was president he would not tolerate disrespect.

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

If you are referring to mass shootings then the only other incident I'm aware of is the Koresh/Waco standoff.

This was in 1991:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre

Deadliest shooting in US history until VA Tech.

Originally Posted by Raymond42262

^
The difference in this situation is that under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I'm not sure of the exact wording of the law but no one is allowed to make disparaging remarks against elected officials, Especially against the president and his policies.

corrected..

Thanks. I wasn't sure.

Originally Posted by MATT0404

This was in 1991:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre

Deadliest shooting in US history until VA Tech.

Didn't know. Ironic...the top three are now VA Tech, Killeen, A VA Tech grad in Killeen.

Originally Posted by Raymond42262

^
The difference in this situation is that under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I'm not sure of the exact wording of the law but no one is allowed to make disparaging remarks against elected officials, Especially against the president and his policies.

corrected..

When I was at Ft Campbell and Clinton was president, the post commander said that if anyone was making inappropriate remarks about Clinton they would receive punishment under UCMJ...(article 15 ). Everyone was bashing him about Monica Lewinsky and being prosecuted, but he said he was still our commander in chief and as long as he was president he would not tolerate disrespect.

Agreed. I'm just saying that if religion has a part in it, it tends to prevent people from taking action. If you disagree, that's fine. Something should've been done...I agree. He said stuff that was possibly religiously motivated, but still punishable under the UCMJ. I just wouldn't be surprised if him being muslim was one of the reasons on top of the others that this was allowed to get to that point.

He said stuff that was possibly religiously motivated, but still punishable under the UCMJ. I just wouldn't be surprised if him being muslim was one of the reasons on top of the others that this was allowed to get to that point.

Another factor may have been his alcoholism as well

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/conte...ad_specia.html

Originally Posted by NisoCrew

Agreed. I'm just saying that if religion has a part in it, it tends to prevent people from taking action. If you disagree, that's fine. Something should've been done...I agree. He said stuff that was possibly religiously motivated, but still punishable under the UCMJ. I just wouldn't be surprised if him being muslim was one of the reasons on top of the others that this was allowed to get to that point.

What you are saying is accurate.

But no one can make disparaging remarks against congressmen, the Secretary of Defense, president....etc. You hear them all the time, but it depends on who you are speaking with. Among friends, fine. But not in a public forum. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for failure.

Religious remarks are a bit different. Like you said, people are less likely to challenge that, you just assume the guy is an a$$ and move on.

One reason why nothing was done, I believe is that he has only been there since July. It takes a while to learn to judge someone accurately and chock it up to rebellion, incompetence, potential stress for his upcoming deployment or just stress from moving, which is done every 2,3 years. Counseling is done all the time. But the Army is not Walmart. You can't fire someone just because you don't like them, or business is bad and you want to lay someone off. You have to have a history of failure, a documented history of a soldier's shortcomings with dates, times and circumstances. If you don't have that in writing , you don't have a case to pursue.

And this man was a psychiatrist in the medical field. Doctors in the Army are not unlike doctors elsewhere, they have a caring heart and always want to help. If he was in an Infantry unit it would be different. Leadership there would be more direct and immediate. So maybe his new supervisors (medical) were willing to give him another chance and another.... Because he moved, it is like he was given a chance to start over. Anytime discipline is involved it has to be ( generally speaking ) consistent with the same leadership or else your case starts to fall apart.

Anyhow, I was just trying to highlight a few points that would not be so obvious to someone without a military background. I am just trying to illustrate why his supervisors did not recognize any signs of suicide, violent behavior or why he was not Relieved.

I am certainly not making excuses for him. Not hardly. I hope he is paralyzed like a news report suggests and he has to lie in a hospital bed like a quadriplegic for the rest of his life and sip thru a silly straw for meals. I think that would be better than death. Then he will have to relive that day everyday for the next 30,40 years

Background: I'm not saying that Soldiers are racist, prejudiced bigots but imagine having people shoot at you for 12 months, 99% of which are muslim. I can honestly say that being in Iraq for 15 months didn't exactly motivate me to become a muslim convert. After having one of my Soldiers get seriously injured, I don't think I'd want to come back and then a week later discuss my feelings with some who is muslim. Honestly, now that I look back, it does take some time to adjust.

Theory: I've seen reports that he was teased and ridiculed. I'm sure there was at least a small population that would probably have made some remark despite the fact that he was a Major. At a minimum, he must have sensed some resentment from his patients that just returned from the middle east. So maybe these reports are true but the ridicule maybe came from patients?

Might have been a contributing factor as to why he did this.

Originally Posted by 6spzhp

But its not. It is a muslim. Go figure.

Your part of the last sentence in my first comment.

Originally Posted by Raymond42262

Sorry guy, but if a Christian or Jew did this in the name of God he would be condemned the same way.

You don't get a pass when you kill 11 people and injure 31 others.

I totally agree with you, regardless of your faith, no one should get a pass ever even if you kill or severely hurt any one. I truthfully hope he gets executed, I would not consider this guy Muslim, I do not condone these actions, and either would any non-radical Muslim. There are always people who are part of a crowd that just fvck it up for everyone else. For Islam, its the radical Muslims.