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Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 01-06-2010, 11:33 PM   #21
95blkmax
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Sooooo, nobody knows what the overlap of the Schrick 264 cams is?

I know the VANOS would ultimately alter that once installed but most aftermarket cam manufacturers would list the overlap assuming either a WOT position, or a "default position" free of influence from cam-timing controls, as a point of reference.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:34 AM   #22
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Just to whore this up a bit more with maxima talk, what was the benefit of gutting the Varible manifold? And why not use a DE-K manifold or a 350Z one?

And I really do think the 328 is a better starting point, but you really should look into the M54 intake manifold swap too. B/\/\Wstreets is in Miami and did it, he could help you out. Did I mention it's cheap?
Intake manifold swap
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...568&highlight=
I did it too
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=710600


FYI, I don't think Shricks cams are very agressive, or at least not as agressive as they advertise. So I'd imagine minimal overlap..which of course could be changed (ask jackeatsemokids, he's a BMW tech with a B30, with a custom tune and played with the cam timing curves. Awesome stuff)
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=667729
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:10 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95blkmax View Post
Sooooo, nobody knows what the overlap of the Schrick 264 cams is?
What would you like to know? I have all of the unpublished specs direct from Schrick's motorsport department. (The benifits of having them custom design a valvetrain for you)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post
FYI, I don't think Shricks cams are very agressive, or at least not as agressive as they advertise. So I'd imagine minimal overlap..which of course could be changed (ask jackeatsemokids, he's a BMW tech with a B30, with a custom tune and played with the cam timing curves. Awesome stuff)
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=667729
We all are entitled to an opinion, but it's better to have the facts.

Where do you think the Schrick specs are being misleading?

I've played with both the GT1 and BMW's new diagnostic system, and they don't tell you anything about valve overlap. In fact, the VANOS position data doesn't reference where the crank actually is, which means you really don't have a clue where the cam actually is. There is someone on this forum that spent a lot of time figuring out that though, but it's his data to share.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:27 AM   #24
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Both the intake and exhaust valves have approximately 3.7mm of lift at TDC @ 5900 RPM. (At 360deg of a 720deg cycle) This changes with both load and RPM. I thought it was only RPM related until I started logging the VANOS both on and off the dyno.

I have a lot more data....
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:28 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by pei330ci View Post
What would you like to know? I have all of the unpublished specs direct from Schrick's motorsport department. (The benifits of having them custom design a valvetrain for you)



We all are entitled to an opinion, but it's better to have the facts.

Where do you think the Schrick specs are being misleading?

I've played with both the GT1 and BMW's new diagnostic system, and they don't tell you anything about valve overlap. In fact, the VANOS position data doesn't reference where the crank actually is, which means you really don't have a clue where the cam actually is. There is someone on this forum that spent a lot of time figuring out that though, but it's his data to share.
Based on this:
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:36 PM   #26
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Today i looked in the box of my new Schrick 264/248 cams, but to
my surprise no cam card or specs. Sorry no overlap info here.

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Old 01-07-2010, 07:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post
Just to whore this up a bit more with maxima talk, what was the benefit of gutting the Varible manifold? And why not use a DE-K manifold or a 350Z one?

And I really do think the 328 is a better starting point, but you really should look into the M54 intake manifold swap too. B/\/\Wstreets is in Miami and did it, he could help you out. Did I mention it's cheap?
Intake manifold swap
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...568&highlight=
I did it too
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=710600


FYI, I don't think Shricks cams are very agressive, or at least not as agressive as they advertise. So I'd imagine minimal overlap..which of course could be changed (ask jackeatsemokids, he's a BMW tech with a B30, with a custom tune and played with the cam timing curves. Awesome stuff)
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=667729
The original 3.5 IM, eventhough its a variable IM, doesnt breathe worth a dang after 5700rpm (6000 with functioning CVCTs). So to make it breathe better for people that were reving them out to the 7500 range, easiest thing to do was simply to gut it (remove the butterfly and cut out the shelf). With this my peak WHP moved from 5700 to 6200 rpm. The 00VI was not an option because the bolt pattern is off slightly and either way the runners do not line up, to make them work you'd have to port passed a safe margin so it's not worth it. Only one guy has done it by flipping the LIM 180* but even still the IM did not line up properly. The 350z IM... I actually had it and was going to do it but I just never got around to it. It requires rewelding a flange for the TB to point to the front of the car, cut the underhood bracing, and still grind off some of the top of the upper clamshell at the edgge. lol.... so yes, gutting the stock IM is the simpler and FREE way :-).

Wow that is awesome about the M54 IM. Would be awesome if you had some beofre and after dynos to back up what the buttdyno says! Im definately interested in doing this now. I will research it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pei330ci View Post
What would you like to know? I have all of the unpublished specs direct from Schrick's motorsport department. (The benifits of having them custom design a valvetrain for you)

We all are entitled to an opinion, but it's better to have the facts.

Where do you think the Schrick specs are being misleading?

I've played with both the GT1 and BMW's new diagnostic system, and they don't tell you anything about valve overlap. In fact, the VANOS position data doesn't reference where the crank actually is, which means you really don't have a clue where the cam actually is. There is someone on this forum that spent a lot of time figuring out that though, but it's his data to share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pei330ci View Post
Both the intake and exhaust valves have approximately 3.7mm of lift at TDC @ 5900 RPM. (At 360deg of a 720deg cycle) This changes with both load and RPM. I thought it was only RPM related until I started logging the VANOS both on and off the dyno.

I have a lot more data....
Thanks for the info!

On another note, I went to tune an 05 Altima 3.5 today (just an AFC)... but after I was done I was abble to baseline my car!

SAE #s were 174whp, 185wtq. I do not have WinPep7 at my work computer so I cannot post the graph until I go home (I work at a hotel and Im sleeping over tonight, so it would be tomorrow afternoon). But to me those #s are pretty healthy coming from a bone stock 2.8L with 96k miles. It has new NGK plugs, new air filter, and an oil change, that's it! lol I dont remember exactly where the power peaked but it was right around 6000.

Next week I will put in headers and change my fuel filter. So I might just dyno in 2weeks to see the difference (I have the habit of being a dyno-whore lol, so you guys will have a very good documentation with dynos of my progress).

BTW, thank you guys for all the input, very helpful indeed
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:58 PM   #28
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I find it frustrating sometimes that people want to pursue being "right", when knowledge is being offered.
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
I find it frustrating sometimes that people want to pursue being "right", when knowledge is being offered.
Where is this coming from? You got me lost
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:02 PM   #30
PEI330Ci
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Where is this coming from? You got me lost
The TMS dyno plot.

I did 156 pulls on the dyno in 2009, all with 264/248 Schrick cams.

....and I've got all the cam specs anyone could want about those cams.

I look forward to reading about the testing with your car.
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:31 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
The TMS dyno plot.

I did 156 pulls on the dyno in 2009, all with 264/248 Schrick cams.

....and I've got all the cam specs anyone could want about those cams.

I look forward to reading about the testing with your car.

ah I get you now lol. I intended to comment about it but I must have skipped it while selecting the posts to reply to. They are def a most for someone wanting to extend the redline (and have usable power up there lol) Thanks for posting that up!

Bad news (temporary), my thumbdrive seems to be taking a doo-doo. I got home and my runfiles seem to be corrupted. I didnt bother to get a printout as I thought I had the runfiles perfectly fine in my thumbdrive.

Anyways, when I go back to dyno after the headers I'll get them all at that point. Now that I mention headers... it may take longer- this weather in Miami is NOT for me to be outside working on the car (some of you guys up north most thing Im soft for complaining about 40-50*F weather... but when you're used to 90-100*F +humidity, that's a BIG difference lolol).

Once again thank you guys for all the help!
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:01 AM   #32
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Where is this coming from? You got me lost
It's directed towards me.
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:27 AM   #33
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It's directed towards me.
You added a good reference to the conversation, the change of direction just took me by surprise.

Brady is doing an "after" dyno of the Schrick cams on the 18th which should be interesting.

I actually prefer Dynopack dynos for testing...but they are pretty rare in North America compared to Dynojets. It's hard to get a fair comparison between the 2.
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Old 01-09-2010, 03:50 AM   #34
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I prefer dynopacks myself, but everyone has their preference.

Here might be some info on overlap by out very own hoveringguy
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...=116803&page=6

I've highlighted the following post for you too read
cam timing changes:
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...&postcount=186

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...&postcount=190

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...&postcount=213

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...&postcount=215


Read the whole thread though, he has VERY valuable insight.

Last edited by Iceman00; 01-09-2010 at 04:20 AM.
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Old 01-09-2010, 07:04 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post
I prefer dynopacks myself, but everyone has their preference.

Here might be some info on overlap by out very own hoveringguy
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...=116803&page=6

I've highlighted the following post for you too read
cam timing changes:
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...&postcount=186

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...&postcount=190

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...&postcount=213

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...&postcount=215


Read the whole thread though, he has VERY valuable insight.
Ha ha....Steve and I were emailing regularily throughout the posts you've quoted above. I am "in the loop" on this stuff.

Aren't you at least curious as to the cam specs I've got?
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:13 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
Ha ha....Steve and I were emailing regularily throughout the posts you've quoted above. I am "in the loop" on this stuff.

Aren't you at least curious as to the cam specs I've got?
I didn't know you were willing to share! Be my guest, please
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Old 01-09-2010, 04:44 PM   #37
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I didn't know you were willing to share! Be my guest, please
I think you'll find that 90% of my posts related to sharing information, or encouraging others to do so. Your comment defines your awareness....



The VANOS system does opposite things with the intake and timing cams in relation to each other. At idle, the exhaust if fully retarded and the intake is fully advanced resulting in minimal overlap. Under full load, and at a specified RPM, the exhaust is advanced and intake is retarded. Above the specified RPM, the VANOS moves the cams back towards the idle specification as RPM increases.

Schrick uses what they call a "lift marker" to specify timing points. This value is 1.27mm or 0.050" which is what the camshaft industry in general uses as their standard.

Intake cam at idle
Open: 18.2944 deg after TDC
Close: 54.8870 deg after BDC
Cam lobe centerline versus TDC: +126 deg

Intake cam advanced
Open: 21.7056 deg before TDC
Close: 14.8870 deg after BDC
Cam lobe centerline versus TDC: +86 deg

Last edited by PEI330Ci; 01-09-2010 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:03 AM   #38
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I'm surprised nobody has figured it out yet....
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:28 AM   #39
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I'm surprised nobody has figured it out yet....
^ Nope, not all of it lol.
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:04 PM   #40
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^ Nope, not all of it lol.
You weren't too far off with one of your previous statements....look at the duration.

I've known this for a long time, (measured an OEM cam a long time ago) but to keep from confusing people I continued to use the "descriptions" provided by BMW and Schrick.
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