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From Auto-X to Trackday to Racing and Professional Motorsports this is the place to discuss making BMWs fast

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Old 03-10-2010, 05:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJR4884 View Post
why the fck are we talking about drag racing?
haha I don't know what came over me
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:34 PM   #22
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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSpeed View Post
haha I don't know what came over me
It was drag racing.
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:48 PM   #24
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I ...... I want to get into tracking but not competitively. If you had a choice, which E46 would you buy due to its track friendliness? The goal will be to strip which ever car I end up with. Things I would like to consider are cost, power, chassis, and upgradability.

Thanks!
OP, a lot of thoughts.....i campaign a 94 325i E36 (track car) very successfully & own a highly modified NA E46 330ci (street car). I know the title says E46 but i would suggest you reconsider and go with a E36 instead. Reasons why, you can pick-up a 325is or i E36 (93-95) very very cheap or a 96-98 328is or i, cheap. If you go with the 96-98 you want to swap out the intake manifold from the 93-95, very easy, direct fit, more power. The 4K plus dollars you'll save on purchasing a E36 will almost pay for a simple build.
Remember the E36 has a "throttle cable", not drive by wire, on a track car this is a good
thing. Also the ECU in my E36 is really simple (dumb) compared to the ECU in my E46,
much smarter & more problematic. When beating on an E36, going off track (hard) or
missing a shift, hopefully no damage, the ECU Never gets upset & goes into limp mode.
The E46 has more difficulty with this, there's a much greater chance that the ECU will go
into limp mode, wrecking that session or race for you. I have two friends that run a E46 330i &
have spent a lot of money fixing that one problem. Parts may be a few bucks cheaper on the E36,
but not a lot. Oh, the E46 oil pump issue, almost forgot. The M54
motor is an aluminum block motor, for some reason it gets a bad harmonic that comes
in at about 6600-7000 rpm. This bad harmonic kills your oil pump, possibly killing your
motor, this does not happen on the E36. I could go on, but you get my point, dollar for
dollar it's a lot cheaper to build a E36 than a E46. And i GUARANTEE that you'll have
just as much fun in a E36.

Good luck,

Rob
PS, mrshelley would also be a good source of information.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!

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Old 03-10-2010, 09:17 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
...E36..E36....E36...
Hopefully the moderators remove this post^ as it's only about E36's and contains none of the drag racing content we crave

Yeah that mrshelley seems to have a fleet of 330s and a Z4 that he personally maintains. He either rents them out or races himself or both. And vaio76109 seems to track or race his 330 a LOT. And of course Rob43 knows his stuff but is hellbent on the E36

This shop called Autotechnic, which is kind of near me, has a solid 3 car E46 race team and also some E36s:
http://www.autotechnic.net/racing/who_we_are.php

All good resources.
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:51 PM   #26
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.....E36....E36...E36...McSpeed, your funny

What's really funny is the last time i raced the Autotechnic boys (8/23/09) on the Thunderbolt
track, i BEAT EVERYONE OF THEM. I came in first in class (ITR), & 3rd overall, they are
very good drivers though.

http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1277877
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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:01 PM   #27
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What's really funny is the last time i raced the Autotechnic boys (8/23/09) on the Thunderbolt
track, i BEAT EVERYONE OF THEM.
Fine. But you did not beat their E46's
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:13 PM   #28
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Like i said, i beat all Autotechnic cars in that race, that day.

This is not an argument, it's a fact.
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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:15 PM   #29
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I know the title says E46 but i would suggest you reconsider and go with a E36 instead.
Good point but

just fockin' with ya.

Good points. I've been kind of thinking about getting into club racing myself. I wasn't prepared to beat my E46 to death so I would have to get another cheap car.
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:22 PM   #30
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Like i said, i beat all Autotechnic cars in that race, that day.

This is not an argument, it's a fact.
Congrats btw
that race had a pretty big field!
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:38 PM   #31
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M52tuB28 > M54B30

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Old 03-11-2010, 12:35 AM   #32
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M52tuB28 > M54B30
You don't want your car to vibrate itself to death.
That's kind of an unqualified statement that could be put differently:

There've been a handful of cases in all M54dom where people experienced harmonic related oil pump failure which led to catastrophic engine failure, mostly after they raised their redline from stock to 7K (sure, some race teams were hitting 8K and, yeah, they had problems, but problems are virtually guaranteed at 1500rpm over redline, so I'm not addressing those).

Therefore, on the street, some people secure the oil pump nut with a safety wire (bimmerworld) and some people weld it in place. Some have checked it and found their OPN to be tight. Others leave it be, unaware, and drive thousands and thousands of miles. Even a loose OPN still works - and it's reverse threaded so doesn't readily back itself off on the street with stock redlines.

However, on the track, where every weakness is exposed, spinning the car out so the engine spins backwards could shoot a loose OPN off and, it seems, the oil pump shaft itself can also shear, eventually. So, for the track I would get a toughened replacement pump from vaio76109 or the more expensive dual pickup pump from bimmerworld. There is also a pump made by VAC but, for a full time track car, it is not as proven as the previous two options, IMO.

There was also one non-critical issue with oil squirters on vaio76109's heavily tracked 2001 330 running stock redline so perhaps it's good to drop the oil pan and check once in awhile, but on the other hand, it's a single case.

Maybe get a 330 with a production date of 9/2002 or later, after which the M54 got a new vibration damper part number and, at stock redlines, no news has been good news. This is armchair conjecture on my part - I haven't compared the vibration dampers - but there's a new part number and BMW themselves raised the stock redline on the 2003 ZHP, so that might mean something. My other theory is that the stock dual mass flywheel's inertial properties might cut down on the harmonics somewhat but again, supposition.

From what I've read, that's the harmonic situation on the M54: a few incidents amidst a vast body of normal operation, both on the track and off.

Also keep in mind that mrshelley runs a fleet of race 330s with M54s. They're on the track pretty much all their lives. One of his cars has 30K race miles on it. Over several years of track experience with the M54B30 the only harmonic weak point he's addressed is the stock oil pump, afaik.

Hopefully this helps put the harmonic bogeyman in perspective.
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:38 AM   #33
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:08 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
OP, a lot of thoughts.....i campaign a 94 325i E36 (track car) very successfully & own a highly modified NA E46 330ci (street car). I know the title says E46 but i would suggest you reconsider and go with a E36 instead. Reasons why, you can pick-up a 325is or i E36 (93-95) very very cheap or a 96-98 328is or i, cheap. If you go with the 96-98 you want to swap out the intake manifold from the 93-95, very easy, direct fit, more power. The 4K plus dollars you'll save on purchasing a E36 will almost pay for a simple build.
Remember the E36 has a "throttle cable", not drive by wire, on a track car this is a good
thing. Also the ECU in my E36 is really simple (dumb) compared to the ECU in my E46,
much smarter & more problematic. When beating on an E36, going off track (hard) or
missing a shift, hopefully no damage, the ECU Never gets upset & goes into limp mode.
The E46 has more difficulty with this, there's a much greater chance that the ECU will go
into limp mode, wrecking that session or race for you. I have two friends that run a E46 330i &
have spent a lot of money fixing that one problem. Parts may be a few bucks cheaper on the E36,
but not a lot. Oh, the E46 oil pump issue, almost forgot. The M54
motor is an aluminum block motor, for some reason it gets a bad harmonic that comes
in at about 6600-7000 rpm. This bad harmonic kills your oil pump, possibly killing your
motor, this does not happen on the E36. I could go on, but you get my point, dollar for
dollar it's a lot cheaper to build a E36 than a E46. And i GUARANTEE that you'll have
just as much fun in a E36.

Good luck,

Rob
PS, mrshelley would also be a good source of information.
Good post.
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:29 AM   #35
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:31 AM   #36
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Why the facepalm? I don't get it...
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:35 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by McSpeed View Post
That's kind of an unqualified statement that could be put differently:

There've been a handful of cases in all M54dom where people experienced harmonic related oil pump failure which led to catastrophic engine failure, mostly after they raised their redline from stock to 7K (sure, some race teams were hitting 8K and, yeah, they had problems, but problems are virtually guaranteed at 1500rpm over redline, so I'm not addressing those).

Therefore, on the street, some people secure the oil pump nut with a safety wire (bimmerworld) and some people weld it in place. Some have checked it and found their OPN to be tight. Others leave it be, unaware, and drive thousands and thousands of miles. Even a loose OPN still works - and it's reverse threaded so doesn't readily back itself off on the street with stock redlines.

However, on the track, where every weakness is exposed, spinning the car out so the engine spins backwards could shoot a loose OPN off and, it seems, the oil pump shaft itself can also shear, eventually. So, for the track I would get a toughened replacement pump from vaio76109 or the more expensive dual pickup pump from bimmerworld. There is also a pump made by VAC but, for a full time track car, it is not as proven as the previous two options, IMO.

There was also one non-critical issue with oil squirters on vaio76109's heavily tracked 2001 330 running stock redline so perhaps it's good to drop the oil pan and check once in awhile, but on the other hand, it's a single case.

Maybe get a 330 with a production date of 9/2002 or later, after which the M54 got a new vibration damper part number and, at stock redlines, no news has been good news. This is armchair conjecture on my part - I haven't compared the vibration dampers - but there's a new part number and BMW themselves raised the stock redline on the 2003 ZHP, so that might mean something. My other theory is that the stock dual mass flywheel's inertial properties might cut down on the harmonics somewhat but again, supposition.

From what I've read, that's the harmonic situation on the M54: a few incidents amidst a vast body of normal operation, both on the track and off.

Also keep in mind that mrshelley runs a fleet of race 330s with M54s. They're on the track pretty much all their lives. One of his cars has 30K race miles on it. Over several years of track experience with the M54B30 the only harmonic weak point he's addressed is the stock oil pump, afaik.

Hopefully this helps put the harmonic bogeyman in perspective.
Amazingly well thought out, and written post. But my dislike for the B30 comes down to the crank (also used in the S52, which is known to have harmonic issues over 7000rpm), and its oversquare design, (though it's a rather minor complaint)
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:33 AM   #38
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If I looking for a car to track, this is what I'd get, a high mileage 2001 330i with a stick. here's why:
1. Plenty out there
2. 330 has big brakes
3. 330 has big axles and rear wheel bearings
4. It has that 5 speed ZF tranny that's built like a tank

This is what I'd do to track it:
1. Fix the oil pump (alternate shaft)
2. Rebuild the brake calipers and stick in ATE super blue
3. Put in a 3.38 LSD
4. Shark Injector
5. A complete service on the car
6. Meyle front control arms (the ZHP knockoffs)
7. Buy a new set of rotors and a set of PFC 01 pads (use this only for the track)
8. A second set of wheels (like a 17X8.5) with a set of used Hoosiers (now Continental) tires
9. Put in a set of rear toe limiters
11. New set of front control arm bushings
10. TCK DA shocks, camber plates and springs
11. A big front sway bar and take off the rear
12. Realign the car
13. Put on a M front bumper and the brake duct kit from Turner

For each track event, I'd change out the brakes (rotors and pads) with the track ones and stick on the track tires.

This combo would give you an excellent track car that stops much better than 95% of the cars out there, easy to drive and very reliable. On top of this, you can still use it for a daily driver. For my street tires, I'd just get the cheapest ones out there because they are going to wear out quicker and I am not the kind to race around on the streets.

So, I know this will be open for debate but this is what I'd do.The 330 is a good decent platform and even though there are some oil pump issues, it takes a pretty good amount of time to get to the point where you have an issue. The ECU and DBW are not a big deal and rarely give a problem unless you start going wild with the car.

For me, I'd want to become a better driver on the track and having a high hp car (i.e. M3) doesn't give you any extra talent unless you are on a straight. The 330 has enough power that you are not relegated to strictly a momentum car. I look at the 330 as a M3 with 100 less hp but all of the goodies (axles, bearings and brakes). This just adds to the overall reliability. There's no reason why you couldn't run 10 track days/year and drive this on the street but never have to open the hood.
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Old 03-12-2010, 01:57 PM   #39
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^ Very good write up.
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"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

Need Help With Your Nitrous Ambitions ?.....PM ME
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:07 PM   #40
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^ Very good write up.
cheers to that^


Fair enough, Iceman00 - the B28 does have its elegance
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