M54B30 harmonics and ATI dampers

Wow. You'd think they'd allow you to run the ATI to take care of that. Dang.

Originally Posted by mrshelley

I wish I could use the ATI damper. Right now I'm going through a stock damper every 2 races. It's all because I have to rev my motor beyond what it was designed for and can't justify a $25K Sunbelt motor that would do the same exact thing.

Originally Posted by McSpeed

Hi azzy - it seems like it's just that before 9/2002 there was a 5 ribbed AC belt and after 9/2002 there was a 4 ribbed AC belt. - so the pulleys on the vibration damper are different accordingly.

Very minor difference between the 2 dampers indeed, the AC compressor mount is also different from <09/2002 and >09/2002. When I swapped engines from a 2001 to a 2003 M54 I had to migrate the damper and the AC compressor mounts.

Realoem has identical part numbers of a 330 vibration damper and a 320 one. Does this imply that an ATI damper made for a 330 would properly work on a 320?

Originally Posted by paraklas

Very minor difference between the 2 dampers indeed, the AC compressor mount is also different from <09/2002 and >09/2002. When I swapped engines from a 2001 to a 2003 M54 I had to migrate the damper and the AC compressor mounts.

Realoem has identical part numbers of a 330 vibration damper and a 320 one. Does this imply that an ATI damper made for a 330 would properly work on a 320?

Indeed it would

edit: I also asked Ricky if there a minimum power level that the ATI damper would be designed for. He said, "The 5.5" OEM accessories damper is good for anything up to about 500-550HP."

Only 500hp? Hmm... Oh, wait, that'll be fine...

Any word on a possible group buy price!?!

Originally Posted by McSpeed

edit: I also asked Ricky if there a minimum power level that the ATI damper would be designed for. He said, "The 5.5" OEM accessories damper is good for anything up to about 500-550HP."

I have the 6" one.

That's only bragging in certain scenarios....

Update your 2010 thread, man! Really excited about your projects.

Originally Posted by PEI330Ci

I have the 6" one.

Originally Posted by aggieE46

That's only bragging in certain scenarios....

Update your 2010 thread, man! Really excited about your projects.

+1 and I'm not even sure what your working on, I just know it's going to be amazing.

Originally Posted by tinkwithanr

+1 and I'm not even sure what your working on, I just know it's going to be amazing.

It's starting to feel like a "skunkworks" project. Individual vendors know a huge amount about just one part, but I'm the only one that's got the full picture. It'll come together some day.

On topic: I will be using an ATI damper on my new project. This month marks the anniversary of starting the design process on my first one 2 years ago. My how time flies....

Hey guy's I've been busy at the shop, so it's been a while. Yeah Ricky didn't have to much to say about a tool to install or hold the pulley. I have the factory tool for removing and torquing the factory pulley.
Here are my thoughts or the ATI damper, I was gonna use the 3 larger 12-point bolts from the ATI damper to hold a 1/4" thick plate and handle to hold the pulley to torque the crank bolt to the 410Nm? they call for. The other bolts that hold it together are flush on the surface.

As far as installing it I was thinking of putting the whole damper in the oven at about 175F for an hour or two and then using a longer version of the stock bolt and stepped washer. The washer helps keep it all lined up and I don't know where we got the bolt from but I am sure McMaster or MSC can get you a similar bolt. I take a little brake cleaner and spray the end of the crankshaft for a while to cool it down, pull the damper out of the oven quickly spray a shot of thin lube (ZEP 45) on the crank snout, line the damper up, set the bolt and washer up with a little lube on the threads and smoothly run that baby on home. If it doesn't "feel" right I loosen up the bolt a touch and it lets the damper scoot around under the washer and find it's center.
We do them same thing for stock dampers at the shop and it works fine. Now don't get mixed up I would only use the pulley holder for torquing the bolt, as far as holding the crankshaft while running in the installer bolt I would hold the crank by using the flywheel pin in the back of the block.
I am gonna call Ricky tomorrow and see what the progress is on the damper. Apparently I will need to remove my stock damper and give them a final crankshaft measurement to the 0.0001" so I gotta borrow a buddies micrometer and have about a week or so of down time while I wait for final machining.

Originally Posted by F1004fun

Hey guy's I've been busy at the shop, so it's been a while. Yeah Ricky didn't have to much to say about a tool to install or hold the pulley. I have the factory tool for removing and torquing the factory pulley.
Here are my thoughts or the ATI damper, I was gonna use the 3 larger 12-point bolts from the ATI damper to hold a 1/4" thick plate and handle to hold the pulley to torque the crank bolt to the 410Nm? they call for. The other bolts that hold it together are flush on the surface.

As far as installing it I was thinking of putting the whole damper in the oven at about 175F for an hour or two and then using a longer version of the stock bolt and stepped washer. The washer helps keep it all lined up and I don't know where we got the bolt from but I am sure McMaster or MSC can get you a similar bolt. I take a little brake cleaner and spray the end of the crankshaft for a while to cool it down, pull the damper out of the oven quickly spray a shot of thin lube (ZEP 45) on the crank snout, line the damper up, set the bolt and washer up with a little lube on the threads and smoothly run that baby on home. If it doesn't "feel" right I loosen up the bolt a touch and it lets the damper scoot around under the washer and find it's center.
We do them same thing for stock dampers at the shop and it works fine. Now don't get mixed up I would only use the pulley holder for torquing the bolt, as far as holding the crankshaft while running in the installer bolt I would hold the crank by using the flywheel pin in the back of the block.
I am gonna call Ricky tomorrow and see what the progress is on the damper. Apparently I will need to remove my stock damper and give them a final crankshaft measurement to the 0.0001" so I gotta borrow a buddies micrometer and have about a week or so of down time while I wait for final machining.

It won't work, you need a proper installation tool.

They make the damper smaller than the crank snout on purpose so that it get's pressed onto the crank. It helps transmit all the harmonics into the damper.

You don't want to use a longer bolt with washers. Turning that bolt inside the crank will destroy the threads on the crank. I used a 18" wrench to turn the installation tool, and it was on needle bearings to reduce friction. The amount of force it took to press on that damper surprised me, it was a workout.

The OEM damper can be slipped onto the crank with a couple whacks with a hand. Big difference in fit.

Please post up your crank snout measurement, I would be interested to see what kind of deviation might be found. Even though I own 4 M54B30 cranks....LOL

Originally Posted by PEI330Ci

It won't work, you need a proper installation tool.

They make the damper smaller than the crank snout on purpose so that it get's pressed onto the crank. It helps transmit all the harmonics into the damper.

You don't want to use a longer bolt with washers. Turning that bolt inside the crank will destroy the threads on the crank. I used a 18" wrench to turn the installation tool, and it was on needle bearings to reduce friction. The amount of force it took to press on that damper surprised me, it was a workout.

I was like needle bearings? What? Then I got that they're in the silver thing behind the nut. Neat.
(I yanked these from your install thread if that's ok):


Moroso(?) damper installation tool with PEI330Ci-made thread adapter:


In other news:
ATI should be receiving the post-9/2002 stock damper today and I'm waiting to hear back on the group buy question.

I just did a little dance at my desk, not that I can afford it right now, but it's definitely been on my list.

Originally Posted by PEI330Ci

You don't want to use a longer bolt with washers. Turning that bolt inside the crank will destroy the threads on the crank. I used a 18" wrench to turn the installation tool, and it was on needle bearings to reduce friction. The amount of force it took to press on that damper surprised me, it was a workout.

The OEM damper can be slipped onto the crank with a couple whacks with a hand. Big difference in fit.

Please post up your crank snout measurement, I would be interested to see what kind of deviation might be found. Even though I own 4 M54B30 cranks....LOL

Well thanks for the heads up, can't say I have ever installed an ATI damper so I have to take your word for it. I looked at the tool you made and I see what you mean about wanting to better hold the 2 parts before welding.
I don't have pictures to show but I found a 300mm long piece of M18X1.5 grade B7 hardness C35 threaded rod, the part number on McMaster Carr website is #95245A122.
This should thread into the crankshaft with a bearing similar to the on you used, I found on the same website part number #60715K13 should work just fine. They also sell the nuts but I found a pair in my pocket.
On another note I talked to ATI the other day and the expected wait time is 30-60 days, so I guess I can make the install tool post a few pics and wait till it arrives.

Well I dug out the drawing for my ATI damper, and found a number of interesting things.

#1.) ATI are most certainly using the CAD from the consultation I did with them in 2008. I specified 340hp N/A...which I don't think many here would have to balls to pursue. So that's where that # came from.

#2.) My drawing is SK183K, meaning someone else has had an SK183K2 done. (I think I know who that is)

#3.) My 6-rib accessory drive is 6.78" in diameter, not the 6" I've been mis-quoting. The OEM one is 5.52" for comparison.

#4.) The steel hub that is pressed onto the crankshaft is significantly different for my damper. You wouldn't be able to interchange 5 rib pulley wheels ect. The hub to crank measurements are exactly the same. (15 thou interference fit)

Originally Posted by F1004fun

I don't have pictures to show but I found a 300mm long piece of M18X1.5 grade B7 hardness C35 threaded rod, the part number on McMaster Carr website is #95245A122.
This should thread into the crankshaft with a bearing similar to the on you used, I found on the same website part number #60715K13 should work just fine. They also sell the nuts but I found a pair in my pocket.
On another note I talked to ATI the other day and the expected wait time is 30-60 days, so I guess I can make the install tool post a few pics and wait till it arrives.

Should be interesting to see how your tool works out.

You lucky guy. I was quoted 90 days, and it took just over 4 months from when we started emailing to when I received the damper. The second damper took less than 30 days.

Here is a pic of the install tool, it's the threaded rod I mentioned cut down to 180mm with a 3/8" socket welded to the end of it. I was thinking of using the factory washer with a thrust bearing and a M18X1.5 nut to run it down.
In hind sight the threaded rod might be too short use a box-end wrench, but you can't go any longer or you run into the radiator. I might need to remove the A/C pulley to use a box-end wrench.
Now the fun part will be making a removal tool.

Heard back from ATI. Group buy of 10+ would be $575. Think we could get the interest?

Originally Posted by aggieE46

Heard back from ATI. Group buy of 10+ would be $575. Think we could get the interest?

LOL Can't believe you finally got an answer! You are the group buy king

Should we start a new thread for a GB?

I replied quickly asking about deposit and install tool.

Deposit will be 50%, I also asked if this would include shipping, and if we'll be able to mix the order with 4 and 5 rib secondary belts.