the "King" Lebron chokes and the Cavs get bounced

Originally Posted by R3IGNman

Yep. This is going to be an interesting crossroads for him because it will indicate what kind of a competitor he is. Is he the type that actually has the kind of heart that causes him to believe he can be a champion wherever he is, or will he throw in the towel and leave for "better opportunities"? If he comes to NYC, well, not that I'll be upset lol, but I will definitely lose a little bit of respect for him. NYC will offer him that lifestyle I suspect he craves. But if it's all about competition and proving to everyone that he is the best, well, then he will stay in Cleveland. If he stays in Cleveland then I will gain a lot of respect for him, because it shows he's the kind of competitor that is unique to His Airness. MJ had the kind of killer instinct that made him believe he was going to win in Chicago at all costs.

Originally Posted by R3IGNman

Very, very good point. I think that most people haven't caught on to the fact that Lebron is more about fame and fun as opposed to winning and competition. He likes the lifestyle and environment of playing basketball more than the challenge of tearing the heart out of his opponents and being the best at all cost. Not that it's a bad personal characteristic, but, it seems to me that Lebron is more of an entertainer than a competitor...which probably makes him a fun person to be around, but it also doesn't translate into athletic greatness.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Born Again

wrong wrong wrong

lebron will win the championships once he is on a better team.

he obviously was depleted because he couldn't do it all himself.

how could you bring up kobe and MJ when they had a stellar supporting staff not to mention a strong bench

lebron has NONE of that. he's like the patrick ewing - all talent - no championship due to a mediocre team.

coco you're way to hard on lebron - he will get the trophy soon enough and smash it on your face

then put it in the butt of reiger guy - then smash it on the heads of the mods on this forum.

then the new people too because they buy high mileage used bmws

Jordan was in Chicago, what 7 years before getting a ring? He never quit wanting it. I would go as far to say that Jordan is Jordan because of the drought and road to getting that first ring. It gave him that desire and will to crush the opposition.

Originally Posted by R3IGNman

Very, very good point. I think that most people haven't caught on to the fact that Lebron is more about fame and fun as opposed to winning and competition. He likes the lifestyle and environment of playing basketball more than the challenge of tearing the heart out of his opponents and being the best at all cost. Not that it's a bad personal characteristic, but, it seems to me that Lebron is more of an entertainer than a competitor...which probably makes him a fun person to be around, but it also doesn't translate into athletic greatness.

Where do u guys come up with this stuff? Lol

u can't Negatively judge a man based on snippets of video online besides I totally disagree with u and especially coco- he's young but still an overall class act.

Lebron won't stay because his team isn't championship material.

Remember Kevin Garnett - 8+ years on the timberwolves with NO CHAMPIonship until he landed in Boston with a STACKED team. One player can't win it all as proven yesterday.

This is fact and isn't up for debate.

Unfortunately for lebron he will most likely be in rebuilding mode wherever he goes as any team picking him up will have to clear some serious money and no doubt cut other players.

Originally Posted by Born Again

Where do u guys come up with this stuff? Lol

u can't Negatively judge a man based on snippets of video online besides I totally disagree with u and especially coco- he's young but still an overall class act.

Lebron won't stay because his team isn't championship material.

Remember Kevin Garnett - 8+ years on the timberwolves with NO CHAMPIonship until he landed in Boston with a STACKED team. One player can't win it all as proven yesterday.

This is fact and isn't up for debate.

Unfortunately for lebron he will most likely be in rebuilding mode wherever he goes as any team picking him up will have to clear some serious money and no doubt cut other players.

One minor detail you forgot to mention about Kevin....He demanded huge money and signed a huge contract, largest in the NBA at that time and for a team that made no real desires to win a Championship.

Originally Posted by PikerCapitalEnt

*******>********><table class="cnnTMbox" width="600" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">*******><tr><td class="cnnIEBoxTitle">2009-10 NBA All-Defensive Team </td> </tr> <tr><td class="cnnIEBoxSubTitle">First Team</td></tr> <tr> <td class="cnnTMcontent"> *******> ********><table class="cnnTM" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"> *******><tr class="cnnIEHdrRowBG"> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">Position</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">Player, Team</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">1st</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">2nd</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">Points</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Center</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Dwight Howard, Orlando</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">28</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">1</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">57</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Guard</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Rajon Rondo, Boston</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">23</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">4</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">50</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Forward</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">LeBron James, Cleveland</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">20</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">5</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">45</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Guard</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">13</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">8</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">34</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Forward</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR" *****ald="" wallace,="" charlotte=""></td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">11</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">8</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">30</td></tr>********></table></td></tr>********></table>

2008-09 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM *******> ********>*******>********><table class="cnnTM" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1">*******><tr class="cnnIEHdrRowBG"> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">Position</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">Player, Team</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">1st</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">2nd</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">Points</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Center</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Dwight Howard, Orlando</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">27</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">1</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">55</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Guard</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">24</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">5</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">53</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Forward</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">LeBron James, Cleveland</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">22</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">3</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">47</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Guard</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Chris Paul, New Orleans</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">15</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">6</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">36</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Forward</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Kevin Garnett, Boston</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">13</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">9</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">35</td></tr>********></table>

lol, being a DECENT defender of the passing lane does NOT equate to being a good ON-BALL defender. Sorry. You're delusional if you think Lebron is a great defender. That's long been a criticism of his game, and while he isn't a terrible defender, he also isn't a defensive stopper. He never has been.

Originally Posted by Born Again

Where do u guys come up with this stuff? Lol

u can't Negatively judge a man based on snippets of video online besides I totally disagree with u and especially coco- he's young but still an overall class act.

Lebron won't stay because his team isn't championship material.

Remember Kevin Garnett - 8+ years on the timberwolves with NO CHAMPIonship until he landed in Boston with a STACKED team. One player can't win it all as proven yesterday.

This is fact and isn't up for debate.

Unfortunately for lebron he will most likely be in rebuilding mode wherever he goes as any team picking him up will have to clear some serious money and no doubt cut other players.

Snippets online? Oh how little you know me.

Are you seriously using KG as an argument in favor of Lebron? Dude, KG was a choke artist his whole career, hence his move to Boston where he NEEDED other great players to take the pressure off of his shoulders. So yes, thanks for solidifying what I've been saying about Lebron, he doesn't have the killer instinct to carry a team to a title like MJ or even Kobe to a lesser extent.

Needless to say, please respond to this post:

Originally Posted by R3IGNman

When a team has the best record in the NBA and has two all-star's (Mo Williams last year; Antawn Jamison twice before) outside of someone who is supposedly the best in the NBA...well, anything less than winning a title is a bust. The fact is Lebron had two all-stars around him and decent role players to go along with an aging Shaq who still commands the double team...sure, they aren't talented like the Lakers or Magic, but that's enough talent to make the Cavs the best TEAM in the nba with another 60 win season; it sure as hell is enough talent for someone who is considered the best in the league to turn the corner to the title. Unfortunately, Lebron doesn't have the competitive edge or leadership quality that is required for the franchise player to lead his team to a title.

And as another data point, this cavs team has more collective talent than the 1991 Bulls team. Jordan took a young Pippen (3rd year in the league) and the rest of that mediocre team, put them on his back, and won the title (three times in a row obviously). Outside of a young, underdeveloped Pippen, the bulls had a team full of garbage players...Bill Cartwright, Craig Hodges, Cliff Levingston, Horace Grant, and BJ Armstrong?! You've only heard of these names simply because they played on that team with Jordan...check their stats, they were mediocre players at best.

But that's the difference between His Airness and Lebron...MJ would kill his children if it meant he were going to win. But let's not forget just how good MJ was while in his prime. In the 90's, Jordan could score anywhere on the floor at will, he developed a great midrange shot, could score with his back to the basket with the fadeaway (Kobe studied the tapes and copied this move), could jump over anyone to get to the rim, and most importantly, he was also the best on-ball defender in the game. MJ was not only the best offensive player of all time, but he was also arguably the best defender. Lebron, on the other hand, can get to the hoop easily, but he is a bit too one-dimensional when it comes to his offensive game. He can't shoot to save his life (midrange or long range), he does not have any reliable post game with his back to the basket, and he isn't much of a defender.

Point blank, there is no excuse for losing by 30 points in the biggest game of the season...game 5 at home of the conference semi's. He did not show up to play, and that is indicative of his lack of 'heart'. I'm so sick of the constant excuses, constantly blaming it on the talent around him. It's simply not true. Having the best player in the league, a couple of all-stars and decent role players has always been the recipe for a championship. In the Cavs case, was it enough to have the best record in the league during 82 games? Well if that's the case, then choking in the playoffs is inexcusable and the responsibility rests on the leader who happens to be the 'best' player in the league. The team follows their leader, so, when Lebron doesn't show up to play in the playoffs, well, the team is lost and therefore lacks cohesion...because the leader didn't show up to lead. Nobody was complaining about talent during the season at ANY point. It was the opposite in fact, everyone finally realized that the Cavs surrounded Lebron with enough talent to turn the corner to the title. Hell, without any other all-star caliber players on his team, a couple years prior, Lebron took them to the finals...but with better talent he does worse?! There's no excuse for it.

i agree with reignman

losing is choking.
they lost, again, thats a chokejob.

Lebron is the modern day Wilt Chamberlain, an athletic freak who uses his athleticism to get monster stats, but come post season, he gets sent home early.

Originally Posted by Mike Larry

i agree with reignman

I was just going to thank him for posting and saving me the time. I agree 100%

Originally Posted by Mike Larry

i agree with reignman

Originally Posted by Green_Shine

I was just going to thank him for posting and saving me the time. I agree 100%

Lebron is the one superstar that somehow avoids any and all responsibility for losing. The constant barrage of excuses just gets annoying, so I'm glad you agree.

Originally Posted by R3IGNman

Snippets online? Oh how little you know me.

Are you seriously using KG as an argument in favor of Lebron? Dude, KG was a choke artist his whole career, hence his move to Boston where he NEEDED other great players to take the pressure off of his shoulders. So yes, thanks for solidifying what I've been saying about Lebron, he doesn't have the killer instinct to carry a team to a title like MJ or even Kobe to a lesser extent.

Needless to say, please respond to this post:

Read my previous post those Cav "all stars" did not perform in the PLAYOfFs where it matters

if they aren't putting up good numbers in the playoffs how can lebron win?

So I disagree here - u can't compare regular season to the playoffs

Originally Posted by R3IGNman

Lebron is the one superstar that somehow avoids any and all responsibility for losing. The constant barrage of excuses just gets annoying, so I'm glad you agree.

I follow basketball quit closely and have noticed over the years he uses excuses and kind of acts like a baby..I don't really have any other way to describe it besides being a baby..I remember him flopping hard in the Detroit series a few years ago, there a just various things I see and hear from him that I don't from other players. His elbow doesn't bother him when he wins but does when he loses.

Side note, I do wish him success and maturity. There is a lot of weight on his shoulders.

when the Cavs win, Lebron is the best ever
when the Cavs lose, Lebron's teamates let him down

when Steve Nash won MVP, it was for "making his teamates better"
when Lebron won MVP, they never asked him to make his teamates better, just put up stats (note, both Nash and Lebron failed to win rings in the back2back MVP years)

Kobe has improved the game of nearly everyone on the squad (Pau, Ariza, Shannon Brown, etc. have all improved)
now tell me, name one player on the Cavs who's game has improved since joining Lebron?

when Kobe had killer stats and no success in the playoffs, he was a ball hog
when Lebron had killers stats and no success in the playoffs, his coach sucks

when Mike Brown won coach of the year, Cavs fans praised him
when the Cavs lost this series, Cavs fans wanted him gone

when Mo Williams got "snubbed" in the ASG, fans cried for him to be put on the all star team
when Mo Williams played this series, fans cried for him to be traded

Lebron leading our olympic squad: bronze
Kobe leading our olympic squad: gold

Originally Posted by Born Again

Read my previous post those Cav "all stars" did not perform in the PLAYOfFs where it matters

if they aren't putting up good numbers in the playoffs how can lebron win?

So I disagree here - u can't compare regular season to the playoffs

Drop 48 like he did against Detroit in the semis a few years back. That is how to win.

Originally Posted by Born Again

Read my previous post those Cav "all stars" did not perform in the PLAYOfFs where it matters

if they aren't putting up good numbers in the playoffs how can lebron win?

So I disagree here - u can't compare regular season to the playoffs

You are so damn delusional about this. Yes, I read your previous posts, hence my quoting and replying to them for the benefit of all mankind. You are simply wrong, plain and simple. I can tell you didn't read my lengthy post, go briefly read it, it will only take about 2 minutes.

To put it simply, talent is NOT the problem if the TEAM is capable of winning 60 games and achieving the best record in the entire league. Plain and simple. In the playoffs, it is up tot he leader, the super star, the one they call King James, the man who is supposedly the best player in the league and potentially one of the greatest of all time...to take the lead and show the team the way. He did the opposite, he did NOT show up. What is a supporting team with good talent (don't confuse good talent with the fukking all-star team pal) to do? They FOLLOW their leader, and yes, they did; unfortunately their leader was playing terribly, and therefore the team followed suit. Albeit Mo Williams CARRIED that team during the first half last night when Lebron was nowhere to be found. That's right, the other all-star on the team, he managed to keep the team in the game while Lebron was missing in action. What a disgrace.

Originally Posted by King of Chicago

when the Cavs win, Lebron is the best ever
when the Cavs lose, Lebron's teamates let him down

when Steve Nash won MVP, it was for "making his teamates better"
when Lebron won MVP, they never asked him to make his teamates better, just put up stats (note, both Nash and Lebron failed to win rings in the back2back MVP years)

Kobe has improved the game of nearly everyone on the squad (Pau, Ariza, Shannon Brown, etc. have all improved)
now tell me, name one player on the Cavs who's game has improved since joining Lebron?

when Kobe had killer stats and no success in the playoffs, he was a ball hog
when Lebron had killers stats and no success in the playoffs, his coach sucks

when Mike Brown won coach of the year, Cavs fans praised him
when the Cavs lost this series, Cavs fans wanted him gone

when Mo Williams got "snubbed" in the ASG, fans cried for him to be put on the all star team
when Mo Williams played this series, fans cried for him to be traded

Lebron leading our olympic squad: bronze
Kobe leading our olympic squad: gold

Perfect illustration of the illogical and contradictory excuses that follow Lebron, yet no other super star.

ant be the king without the bling..


here is my prediction.. Lebron will go to the Knicks where he will flounder out like ever other "legend" that has left their team to play for the knicks

LeBron has made Jordan and Kobe look a little better.

Will Lebron leave CLE? Vote --> http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=763927

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...calipari051410

Celtics fans know what's up...