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Old 06-14-2010, 02:50 PM   #1
Snik
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BMW Motorsports fans, get in here...

So, i posted this vid in our lil Hampton Roads region forum, and got to talking about cheap good racing.


So i was like how wicked it would be if we could have something similar, like a M car cup. I know they have that E30 cup and then SCCA has there lil thing, (not very little anymore) but i thought, how cool it would be to have a M car cup, and then the real discussions about whats the best M car would escalate to new highs.

I know this is daydreaming, but hey, i might hit the lottery big time, you never know.

But imagine M5s, M3s, M coupes, M6s, ALL racing together, against each other. How would we make it even and competitive, and keep the price down?
I proposed a number of "could be rules" but then the argument went into whats pure racing, why handicap the big dogs, and nascar, F1, Touring car, etc.. and blah blah blah. SO i created my own thread for us to discuss, and fuss about how one would go about making the M Car Cup, fun, affordable(as far as racing car can be) exciting, and competitive.

No E30, and E36 guys are gonna waste their time coming out, if they dont stand a chance against E60 M5s, and E92, E46 M3s etc... so the big dogs would have to be handicapped. and the lil dogs helped to some extent.

Here are some of my ideas...

Quote:
Youd have to make some kind of stipulation to keep the power to weights close. These numbers are rounded off.

E30-195.220hp/2800lbs = 14.3/12.7 lbs/hp

E36-240.282.316hp/3200lbs = 13.3/11.3/10.1 lbs/hp

E46-330.360hp/3400lbs = 10.3/9.4 lbs/hp

E92-420hp/3700lbs = 8.8 lbs/hp

E28-250.282hp/3400lbs = 13.6/12 lbs/hp

E34-310.335hp/3600 = 11.6/10.7 lbs/hp

E39-397hp/4000lbs = 10 lbs/hp

E60-507hp/4000lbs = 7.8 lbs/hp

fukit, spice it up, make it a M cup. Allow M5s, and M6s...
no boosted motors allowed. any engine swap as long as its a M motor...
So u wanna stuff a V10 in a E30, fine, but make sure u dont go over the power to weight bracket, or u will run with lead ballast.

i think 10lbs/hp is a nice limit...M5s and M6s should be able to make that too with some work.
No nos,
no boost,
no race fuel,
no aftermarket ECUs.
Only M motor swaps allowed, but must use ECU from donor car.
No aftermarket brake calipers,
no active suspension.
thinking bout it more, id add spec tires of some sort, DOTs only. no slicks.
wheel sizes can only be stock diameter, but may be wider? (E46 restricted to 19s max)

So looking at the Power to weight of the newer models, how do you guys think would be a good way to restrict them, besides just adding weight until the power to weight ratio target is met.

Perhaps invite BMWUSA to come along and monitor and disable use of DSC+T on the newer models maybe?
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:00 PM   #2
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Dig this vid. Wish I was a driver.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:01 PM   #3
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cant read?
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:04 PM   #4
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cant read?
Didn't bother.

I glanced and it looked like a lot of $$$ + time... two things I don't have readily available.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:05 PM   #5
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i see.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:06 PM   #6
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i see.
You sponsor and supply car.

I will drive for you.

Profit.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:07 PM   #7
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no 323, no care
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:14 PM   #8
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ok guys stop shitting on my thread please. thanks.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:20 PM   #9
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This does exist already - http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/ - there are a variety of classes based on power to weight - M3s are classed by power and mods. There is also a growing, popular SpecE36 class. The NASA Spec E30 folks are now running with BMWCCA as well.

Here are some shots from last week's event here in NJ:

http://picasaweb.google.com/alkendes...derbolt672010#
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:20 PM   #10
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cool! I've been to this race-track, they have a go-kart track right next to it


to bad about that private E36 losing it's spot... I was really rooting for it!

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Old 06-14-2010, 03:26 PM   #11
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This does exist already - http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/ - there are a variety of classes based on power to weight - M3s are classed by power and mods. There is also a growing, popular SpecE36 class. The NASA Spec E30 folks are now running with BMWCCA as well.

Here are some shots from last week's event here in NJ:

http://picasaweb.google.com/alkendes...derbolt672010#
nice Ken, thanks.
what i would like to talk about tho, is somehow running all the M cars together. not just by chassis type.

im aware of the spec E30 and 36 class, but those are open to non Ms. what inspired the discussion is the CSL cup. Not sure what the rules are for that, but im assuming its M3s only, atleast.

cant really make out the classifications from the BMWCCA link... but im day dreaming of a M car only cup.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:37 PM   #12
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In the upper classes, many of the participants are running Ms, and you have a variety of E30, E36, and E46 M3s. The money being spent on these cars is pretty outrageous - even just to cover the required safety components.

By the time the cars are prepped, it almost doesn't matter if the cars began life as an M or not - it all boils down to power to weight.

I understand what you're saying - have a series only open to M cars, which is interesting. I'm sure the Club Race folks have more insight into why this hasn't happened. You'll find most of them hanging out in the Bf.c motorsports forum. There are roughly 450 club racers right now in the combined classes - I'd bet the M drivers would be all for the idea, the non-M guys not so much!
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:45 PM   #13
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haha, yeah im sure they would.

see thats what id like to talk about, keeping the price down, yet still making it fun and competitive.
thats why i threw out ideas for big brakes, big boost, etc.. and since most of the guys with older Bimmers that race have already done motor swaps, why not allow it all.

i dont like BF.c much lately tho, too many naw sayers and haters on board. i read, but rarely make threads over there. maybe i'll give this one a try.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:55 PM   #14
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I don't want to throw you to the wolves there - you're going to get flamed, regardless of how valid the idea is. These guys have dedicated a ton of money to what is already in place. Even the spec guys - who don't have big brakes, fancy aero, and certainly not boost - are into their cars for big bucks (relatively speaking).

You're starting off with an M car, which presumably cost more than a non-M to begin with. The thought of being cost effective kind of falls off the cliff right there.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:59 PM   #15
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It is an interesting idea but I don't see it being a reality. There is nothing affordable about making a E60 M5 into a race car. The series would be a combination of E30s, E36s and E46s. More than likely it wouldn't differentiate enough from existing series to justify itself.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:00 PM   #16
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I don't want to throw you to the wolves there - you're going to get flamed, regardless of how valid the idea is. These guys have dedicated a ton of money to what is already in place. Even the spec guys - who don't have big brakes, fancy aero, and certainly not boost - are into their cars for big bucks (relatively speaking).

You're starting off with an M car, which presumably cost more than a non-M to begin with. The thought of being cost effective kind of falls off the cliff right there.
true, true... i mean, its racing cars, its not cheap at all no matter what u run, and you're right starting off with a M car doesnt help, but its just an idea, you know, i guess kinda like a silly, which color M5 would you buy type thread, but realistically curious about how it could be done.

I have no experience with track time in a car, im a motorcycle guy, and im well aware of those costs and those issue, so for now this is def day dreaming with the M car thing.

thanks for the insight tho.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:03 PM   #17
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It is an interesting idea but I don't see it being a reality. There is nothing affordable about making a E60 M5 into a race car. The series would be a combination of E30s, E36s and E46s. More than likely it wouldn't differentiate enough from existing series to justify itself.
yeah, but the idea is, hey, if u want to race your M5, bring it.. you know, i def know it will be filled with E39s and E46s and older, but imagine having a M cup and some rish mofo shows up with a E60 like, can i enter.
Imagine like TMS wanting to do an initial shake down run on a new chassis in a race environment to see where their baseline is.

dream it man, dream it...

hell all we do is talk about which supermodel we wouldnt bang on here because of her pointy elbows.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:44 PM   #18
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Turner ran an M6 this year at Daytona... So there's that.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:52 PM   #19
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It already exists here in the US and for less than that series. It's called the Continental Tire Challenge. I have one of the fastest BMW's in that series and you can give it a shot (plus be on TV).
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:04 PM   #20
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how is that a M car cup, isnt that the koni challenge renamed?
and its open to more that M cars or BMWs
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