E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Suspension & Braking Forum by BimmerWorld

Suspension & Braking Forum by BimmerWorld
Have some questions about suspension or brake setups for your E46 BMW? Get all your answers here!
Sponsored by BimmerWorld

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 06-30-2010, 07:35 PM   #1
j30a1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 714
Posts: 32
My Ride: E$^M#
For those of you with linear coilover setup...

I have done a lot of research on suspension, and I have been on AST coilovers with Hipercoil springs.

Now I have been on this setup for a while and it's been really good but then I've been doing research on what I can do to better my suspension. I ran across this site.

www.swiftsprings.com

I looked for more information on it and the reviews I found on them were nothing but positive. So I went ahead and contacted them.

When I contacted them and they told me the advantages of the springs, and half of it was pretty technical so I'm not going to regurgitate and mess up the information given to me. They did however, tell me that AST is now a distributor for their springs, and on certain kits even come with their springs.

So then that made things way simple, my coilovers came with the Hipercoil springs so they have something to compare them to. So I went on to contacting AST themselves. Anyways they also told me that they prefer the Swifts over the Hipercoils, but I guess the Hipercoil name is bigger. And I purchased a set. The exact same rates and lengths.

Now I know you wouldn't expect springs to make such a big difference, but it was interesting how durastic the changes were. The springs felt much more compliant, or I think smooth would be the right word. The spring rates are supposedly more precise and everything but they it's not like Hipercoils are off on thier spring rates either. The difference was so durastic that I had to call Swift springs again to ask them wth is going on with your springs, and they told me that because of the compliance of their spring they consistently keep tires cooler because the tires are constantly contacting the ground while other springs skip over uneven surfaces on the ground, and info like that cannot be seen on a spring dyno chart. In fact they are big in many forms of racing including Nascar, and ALMS.

Anyways I just wanted to pass the word around to see if anyone else has had experience with Swift. It's weird that I have not seen them around more often. Im sorry I cannot give any technical data on the springs because for obvious reasons I have no spring Dyno or anything of that sort. I know I found something online somewhere where a swift user tested them out. I will look for it.

Last edited by j30a1; 06-30-2010 at 07:50 PM.
j30a1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 07-01-2010, 11:15 AM   #2
j30a1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 714
Posts: 32
My Ride: E$^M#
http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...gs-dynoed.html

Found it.
j30a1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 06:31 PM   #3
HP Autowerks
Past Site Sponsor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 314
My Ride: E36 M3
AST start offering Swift because of us, no one would buy Hypercoils with AST's from them anymore.

Swift makes a great product, we have been using their springs successfully on many E82/E9x suspension projects:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289833

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329544

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398354

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360577
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	hp_sp1.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	146.4 KB
ID:	365857   Click image for larger version

Name:	hp_sp2.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	142.1 KB
ID:	365858   Click image for larger version

Name:	metric_coilover_springs.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	52.4 KB
ID:	365859  
HP Autowerks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 02:25 AM   #4
blucaller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Magic Mountain, CA
Posts: 215
My Ride: 323ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
AST start offering Swift because of us
I have a used set of Tc Kline D/A that I never installed with 500/600 springs.
Would you recommend Swift springs on these coilovers too?
Are these springs better than what TCK offers?
__________________
blucaller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 09:52 AM   #5
bigjae1976
Registered User
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 11,479
My Ride: A car
Send a message via MSN to bigjae1976
hmmm...I was about to swap out the springs on my PSSs for something linear like the Hypercoils.

How much for a set of 4?

Last edited by bigjae1976; 07-06-2010 at 09:54 AM.
bigjae1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 03:12 PM   #6
Many330i
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Little Elm, TX
Posts: 1,206
My Ride: 330i ZHP Silver
Okay, so were do we buy these swift springs? Just the springs, not for coilover spring replacement!
Many330i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 07:56 PM   #7
j30a1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 714
Posts: 32
My Ride: E$^M#
TCK uses Vogland. And those are actually cheap springs. There is a dealer for them that is near my area called Parker Pumper and they are pretty big with Vogland and Swift. They told me that Vogland doesn't compare with Swift. He said Voglands are very inexpensive springs.
http://www.racingplus.com/

back on Topic, yes Swift springs will pretty much fit on any linnear coilover setup. and they can be purchased from any of their dealers. I know HP Autowerks sells them. with TC Kline coilovers.
They are pretty expensive springs but the difference is totally feelable. I wouldn't be making this thread if it were just a waste of money. I know they retail for about 99 dollars per spring but can obviously be bought cheaper.

BigJae1976- I believe the Mini forum thread that I posted up has a comparison between Swift and Hiperco.



Many330i- I dont believe they are making lowering springs for our cars.
j30a1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 12:29 AM   #8
bigjae1976
Registered User
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 11,479
My Ride: A car
Send a message via MSN to bigjae1976
Interesting. I know I need 60mm springs and a new upper perch for my vorshlag camber plates. I wonder how I find out what length I need?
bigjae1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 12:02 PM   #9
j30a1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 714
Posts: 32
My Ride: E$^M#
Normally you just run the same springs as your original setup. And if anything I know guys like HP would know exactly what you need to run. The reason being I think They've done a lot with Swift.
j30a1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 01:45 PM   #10
Solo 323 CI
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 183
My Ride: 00 323Ci
Nice info. It's always good to read about something other than KW's that uses progressive parts
__________________
Solo 323 CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2010, 01:32 PM   #11
HP Autowerks
Past Site Sponsor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 314
My Ride: E36 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by blucaller View Post
I have a used set of Tc Kline D/A that I never installed with 500/600 springs.
Would you recommend Swift springs on these coilovers too?
Are these springs better than what TCK offers?
They are very similar in quality. If you are interested in changing spring rate than we can accomadate you but you would not see a difference between 500 TC springs and 500 swifts.

For anyone interested in Swift springs, shoot us a PM. We also offer KW conversions that turn KW's into true coilover kits.
HP Autowerks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2010, 11:36 PM   #12
bigjae1976
Registered User
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 11,479
My Ride: A car
Send a message via MSN to bigjae1976
PM sent!
bigjae1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2010, 07:33 PM   #13
ZeroSum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 361
My Ride: 05 325
Funny you mention this - over the weekend I swapped my #650 hyperco rear springs out for #570 swift springs on my AST coilovers.

Sharp impacts are noticably better damped and the ride is now more than acceptable instead of borderline uncomfortable with the hyperco's.

Most of this is probably down to the change in spring rate, I can't be sure.
ZeroSum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 02:00 AM   #14
ninjlao
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 6
My Ride: e30
Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
They are very similar in quality. If you are interested in changing spring rate than we can accomadate you but you would not see a difference between 500 TC springs and 500 swifts.

For anyone interested in Swift springs, shoot us a PM. We also offer KW conversions that turn KW's into true coilover kits.
If TC springs are made by volkland spring then I will have to fully disagree with this comment. I have helped several teams with there vehicles and done a lot of research on suspension, of course the spring is also part of the suspension and I have done a lot of testing with all kinds of different brands in suspension springs. I will do a simple writeup of what I am talking about.
ninjlao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 02:38 AM   #15
ninjlao
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 6
My Ride: e30
Now as for the testing I happen to have a spare volkland spring lying around because I had a friend that wanted me to test it out. I also have a set of lightly used Swift springs in almost the same dimensions. The Volkland spring that i have is a
2.5" ID 9" length 180lb/inch spring.
The swift on the other hand is
2.5" ID 9" length 4kg/mm spring which equals to 223lb/inch spring.

Now just a little background information on this little test that I did. The lower the spring rate the spring rate changes and spikes throughout its compression is much less affected than a heavy spring rate. The spring rate spikes are obviously much more noticeable but the percentage increased are about the same. The reason I tested out such low rates though is because these springs are the only springs comparable that I have lying around.



Now there is a lot more to a spring than the spring rate but that is by far the easiest to see the quality and accuracy of the spring itself. So that is exactly what I tested first.



There is nothing bad I can really say about this spring, it is really hard to tell the accuracy of the spring rate because it is not too hard to be off on a spring rate so low. But as a 180lb/inch spring it is pretty dead on its spring rate all the way through its compression.
1st inch- 181
2nd inch- 183
3rd inch- 186 (already starting to hike up)
4th inch-250 (it was nearing coilbind so its natural to increase this much so you can judge this spring at this amount of compression)


Now with the swift spring.

again this spring is also a low spring rate, it's a little stiffer than the Volkland but it is nowhere near high enough to accurately tell how precise this spring is. But this is the spring rate that was recorded throughout its stroke

1st inch- 220
2nd inch- 223
3rd inch- 222
4th inch- 224

Now I took a picture of every inch of compression, I tested it several times through the different strokes of the springs and the numbers for both really consistent throughout their compressions. The pictures and the recorded numbers I decided to post up are numbers starting with zero preload.
These pictures posted below is where the Swift started to outshine the Volkland. This is at 3 inch of compression.




You can clearly see that the swift spring has a much larger sweet spot than the Volkland spring. You can also see that the Swift spring is much closer to the desired spring rate.

But this is not the only advantage to the spring.
Right after being put on the spring checker I remeasured the springs to see if there were any difference in length.



The Volkland spring was brand spanking new. With just a few compressions on the spring checker it had already sagged 1/16 of an inch.

the used Swift on the other hand was dead on at its height.

This was just a few minutes of compression on the spring checker. Now you can imagine what the spring would do after a few months of use with the weight of the car and the vibrations exposed to the spring.

Well Volkland springs are known to sag after a few race events in the real time racing. This is why I decided to measure it before and after the checking of the rates. I already knew the results before going into the test.
Also to show the craftmanship of these springs

^This picture was also taken before the dyno testing. Now all springs do slant a slight amount. They usually are within whatever the manufacturer specs are. This spring though is almost like an S shape which is something I only thought came with Megan springs. This was kind of disappointing to me.

Last edited by ninjlao; 07-13-2010 at 02:47 AM.
ninjlao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 03:57 AM   #16
ninjlao
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 6
My Ride: e30
Now I have tested time and time again, all sorts of different springs from all kinds of manufacturers. I am always pretty confident with the swift product. Now if I find a better product then I will back that, but so far to this day I have not found one.

Now Zerosum brought up a good point. What you claimed is the exact thing that splits the Swift springs apart from all the other spring manufacturer. Now lets say I were to get the most precise spring from Hiperco or Eibach and compared it with a Swift spring. On a spring dyno it will be very similar. The graph would probably look identical, but then if you were to physically use those springs and swap them out, to use back to back, It would be a night and day difference. You would immediately be able to tell which is Swift. The Swift will feel much more compliant, in fact its exactly what Zerosum said "the impacts are much better damped". I know it is hard to understand but I will explain.

It is not the spring rate that distinguishes the differences in the impact of uneven pavement. Spring rate has more to do with the reaction of the amount of force put onto the spring. In other words to put it in simple terms, it will affect body roll. I am not saying that initial impact of uneven pavement can be softened by softening spring rate, but that is not the correct way to make a car more compliant. The correct way is the shock absorber the main reason for this is because there is a form of mechanical lag with the spring. This is why some suspension companies do not even believe in adjusting spring rate (talk to the techs at KW).

Now for some reason the reaction rate or the time to respond from impact with the Swift spring is much much quicker than ANY other spring company. This is something that can not be seen on a spring dyno. But can be tested. In fact through the testing that I have done we have seen that even with the exact spring rates being used the tire temperatures with the Swift springs is always cooler. This is the reaction rate of the spring, or frequency of the spring is what some suspension scientists explained it to me as. (LOL)
But of course track testing is nowhere near accurate for testing because there are so many different variables that come into play with simply measuring tiretemps.

Anyways the reason why we came to the conclusion that the reaction speed is different is because we ended up taking the car to a shaker rig. Which is an extemely expensive process, which I obviously did not pay for but was there to help figure out why the Swift springs were so different.

Anyways what I am trying to say is that the Swift springs even with the same rates will durastically make a difference with the performance of the vehicle.
ninjlao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 05:52 PM   #17
j30a1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 714
Posts: 32
My Ride: E$^M#
I had to re-read this like 5 times to understand it.

Thanks for the info.
j30a1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 06:53 PM   #18
bigjae1976
Registered User
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 11,479
My Ride: A car
Send a message via MSN to bigjae1976
Great info...now I'm REALLY want to try these springs. Just need to get HP Autowerks some info about my PSSs!
bigjae1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 10:00 PM   #19
HP Autowerks
Past Site Sponsor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 314
My Ride: E36 M3
Bump for an amazing comparison.
HP Autowerks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use