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Old 01-23-2011, 11:14 PM   #141
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asians have tiny penises and hairy vaginas. how exactly are they superior? their women don't want to have sex with their men for stated reason and their men don't want to have sex with their women for stated reason. that race will die out soon. and everybody knows that aryans are the superior race anyways.
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:07 AM   #142
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Read the part that you quoted again. Did I say ALL SPORTS dominated by blacks?
Obviously there are many reasons why they are not. But before we go there, can you explain why the NFL/NBA and track&fields are dominated by blacks?
But you are saying it is genetics (in part) for test scores and so-called "TOP TIER" universities as well as the NFL/NBA.
You explain why MLB, Euro Football, & Cycling aren't, first.
You are the one making the genetics arguments, not I.

Po, your position is indefensible and you know it, you are just

You put your foot in your mouth, except it and move on.
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:21 AM   #143
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Have we determied "why" yet, or are we still debating the answer?
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:14 PM   #144
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But you are saying it is genetics (in part) for test scores and so-called "TOP TIER" universities as well as the NFL/NBA.
You explain why MLB, Euro Football, & Cycling aren't, first.
You are the one making the genetics arguments, not I.

Po, your position is indefensible and you know it, you are just

You put your foot in your mouth, except it and move on.
No matter how many references I cite, you're just going put your fingers in your ears and say la la la la.
I'll leave you this parting reference.
http://www.nytimes.com/books/00/04/1....16holtlt.html
Quote:
In ''Taboo,'' Jon Entine, a journalist, brings this evidence together to make a painstaking case that race and genetics are indeed ''significant components'' of the ''stunning and undeniable dominance of black athletes.''
...
Why should it be taboo even to raise the hypothesis that evolution has given people of African ancestry an athletic edge?
...
More recent discoveries in molecular biology, however, have muddied matters a bit. The split between African and non-African populations is now estimated to have occurred more than 200,000 years ago, and genetic variation between population groups looks as if it may be greater than previously thought. ''The claim that there are no functional differences between populations or ethnic groups appears increasingly passe,'' Entine declares.
And this should be right up your alley. They try to isolate the environment (nurture) and focus on the nature aspect. Yet, the results are revealing.
http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/004064.html
Exactly because it's a "taboo" topic (and my first posts in this thread asks WHY?), it's rare to find a reputable scientific study that will outright take one position or another. Instead, you will find numerous studies that will give you the data/facts. You make your own conclusion.
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Contrary to "culture" theory, the ethnic academic gaps are almost identical for transracially adopted children, and to the extent they are different they go in the opposite direction predicted by culture theory. The gap between whites and Asians fluctuated from 19 to .09 in the NAEP data while the gap in the adoption data is from 1/3 to 3 times larger. This is consistent with the Sue and Okazaki paper above which showed that contrary to popular anecdotes, the values that lead to higher academic grades are actually found more often in white homes. In other words Asian-Americans perform highly despite their Asian home cultural environment not because of it. And though the sample is meager, I find it interesting that the gap between the black and white adopted children was virtually identical (within just 4-6 points) to the gap between whites and blacks in the general population, just like in the Scarr adoption study.
It must be noted that you have yet to produce any evidence for your claims. In fact, WHAT IS EXACTLY YOUR POSITION? You've chickened out of every single challenge question.

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Old 01-24-2011, 12:22 PM   #145
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Come on people, group hug.

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Old 01-24-2011, 12:33 PM   #146
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In fact, WHAT IS EXACTLY YOUR POSITION? You've chickened out of every single challenge question.
I've asked you the same question at least twice by now and you completely ignored it.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:44 PM   #147
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I've asked you the same question at least twice by now and you completely ignored it.
Blacks perform better athletically (not to be confused with ALL SPORTS ).
Asians perform better academically (not to be confused with superior or smarter )

Differences are partially genetic (once you take the environmental limiting factors, the differences will still be there or even more exaggerated).
In other words, that advantage can be passed down from generation to generation. It's not just a cultural thing, or work harder!
No matter how hard you practice, you won't beat a black guy on a 100m (average and statistically speaking, not personally ).
The tie-in to the original article in this thread: yeah, Chinese mothers may be pushy (academically), but that's because they know it works.
napier7 advocated for all parents to be pushy. I said it won't work.

Now, what is your point?

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Old 01-24-2011, 01:31 PM   #148
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It must be noted that you have yet to produce any evidence for your claims. In fact, WHAT IS EXACTLY YOUR POSITION? You've chickened out of every single challenge question.
The NFL/NBA arguments are a joke. Athletics extends FAR beyond the realm of two minor sports on the world stage. And when taken in that global context, there is virtually no clear genetic advantage for any race in athletics.

As for your genetics "argument".

The hypothosys of which you cite can be called into serious question.

Macintosh in 2006
"Can anyone seriously accept Lynn's conclusion that the majority of San Bushmen, whose average IQ is 54, are mentally retarded? Lynn sees no problem: an adult with an IQ of 54 has the mental age of an 8-year-old European, and 8-year-old European children would have no difficulty learning the skills needed to survive in the Kalahari desert" & In 2007 "Much labour has gone into this book. But I fear it is the sort of book that gives IQ testing a bad name. As a source of references, it will be useful to some. As a source of information, it should be treated with some suspicion. On the other hand, Lynn's preconceptions are so plain, and so pungently expressed, that many readers will be suspicious from the outset."

Flynn stated (remember the Flynn effect data posted earlier) in 2002 "Good IQ scores thus simply reflect the educational aspirations and the cognitive, linguistic, and affective dispositions that go with middle class background. They have been shown to be quite unrelated to the truly complex cognition demanded in everyday social and practical tasks." & "I will also be brief on the crude 'genetic' model being promoted here. In an age when we know beyond doubt that there are very few truly additive, Mendelian loci for complex traits (Glazier et al, 2002), why is it that psychologists continue to test and report additive-only models? Because the only methods available (twin and adoption studies) are incapable of testing any other model! And why are such estimates of additive gene variance so huge (80% of total IQ variance according to L&V)? Because they are riddled with methodological defects. (The poor empirical standards in this area are really quite shocking, in my view.) On the 'racial' categories, upon which this book is fundamentally predicated, see the Editorial in Nature Genetics (24, 97–98, 2002): 'the concept of race is a social and cultural construction which has no scientific justification in human biology'."

From The attack of the psychometricians
Denny Borsboom
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/pp...es/PMC2779444/

"The interpretation of group differences on observed scores, in terms of psychological attributes, depends on the invariance of measurement models across the groups that figure in the comparison. In psychometrics, a significant array of theoretical models and associated techniques has been developed to get some grip on this problem (Mellenbergh, 1989; Meredith, 1993; Millsap & Everson, 1993). In practice, however, group differences are often simply evaluated through the examination of observed scores—without testing the invariance of measurement models that relate these scores to psychological attributes.
Tests of measurement invariance are conspicuously lacking, for instance, in some of the most influential studies on group differences in intelligence. Consider the controversial work of Herrnstein and Murray (1994) and Lynn and Vanhanen (2002). These researchers infer latent intelligence differences between groups from observed differences in IQ (across race and nationality, respectively) without having done a single test for measurement invariance. (It is also illustrative, in this context, that their many critics rarely note this omission.) What these researchers do instead is check whether correlations between test scores and criterion variables are comparable (e.g., Lynn & Vanhanen, 1994, pp. 66–71), or whether regressing some criterion on the observed test scores gives comparable regression parameters in the different groups (e.g., Herrnstein & Murray, 2002, p. 627). This is called prediction invariance. Prediction invariance is then interpreted as evidence for the hypothesis that the tests in question are unbiased."

You are predicating your argument by depending on the invariance of measurement models across the groups that figure in the comparison. The entire basis of the validity of the data for your argument is flawed.
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:58 PM   #149
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This woman is getting owned right now on Colbert.
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Old 01-26-2011, 10:07 AM   #150
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This woman is getting owned right now on Colbert.
Hardly.
It's Colbert, a comedian.

Colbert:
"we're terrified of the Chinese since the Olympic opening games".
"Pleople have accused you of saying that the Chinese way of raising a child, what Chinese mothers do, is superior to what western mothers do, true of false?"
Amy:
"False. I do not believe that Chinese mothers are superior, in fact it's on the cover there."

See for yourself.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...t-report-76229

BTW, I've answered your question, but you didn't answer my question: what is your position in this?
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Old 01-26-2011, 10:15 AM   #151
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BTW, I've answered your question, but you didn't answer my question: what is your position in this?
You said that black people are not better athletes, but that they're genetically predisposed to being better at certain sports.

My position is that you're making a ridiculous statement.
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:03 AM   #152
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You said that black people are not better athletes, but that they're genetically predisposed to being better at certain sports.

My position is that you're making a ridiculous statement.

You and rdsesq are the same: like to throw stones on other's theories but have no substance nor even your own theory.

BTW, it's not my original theory, as a simple Google will show you tons of studies in that topic. I've simply built my informed opinion. You want to question the validity of the data like rdsesq did, go argue with the authors of those studies.

I didn't make a blanket statement that blacks are better athletes because of the predisposition of a few in this thread to nit pick, split hairs and miss the forest for one tree.
As we all know, there is a huge variety of activities that are "classified" under sports. For example, body building is a sport.
In my opinion, those that requires music background and judges to score based on personal taste and opinion should be in a separate class. But that's besides the point.
After taking out those, we're still left with activities such as F-1 racing. Besides physical endurance, it requires concentration, hand-eye-coordination, different set of motor skills. Not to mention a heavy dose of tradition, lot of social connections, politics, and a deep pocket to be a F-1 racer.
The fact that we don't see blacks in F-1 doesn't mean they don't possess the physical attributes. Maybe in the future that will change as well, just like we're starting to see blacks as quarter backs, golf and tennis. But there's a lot of sports out there that they don't show up, so we can't generalize yet that blacks are good all around athletes. But we do know they are good in physical activities emphasized by sports like in the NBA, NFL, and track and field.

Is it not conceivable to you that one race can be better at some activities than others?
Are you embracing the theory that all children are equal, blank slates, and that we can mold them and they will all (average speaking of course) turn out the same if the efforts are the same?

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Old 01-26-2011, 12:42 PM   #153
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You and rdsesq are the same: like to throw stones on other's theories but have no substance nor even your own theory.
Look at the substance that has been posted and refers to the works of Macintosh, Flynn, & Borsboom

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BTW, it's not my original theory, as a simple Google will show you tons of studies in that topic. I've simply built my informed opinion. You want to question the validity of the data like rdsesq did, go argue with the authors of those studies.
You are more than entitled to your opinion. However, given they highly questionable nature of the suppositions, IMO, it is a vastly malformed opinion.

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I didn't make a blanket statement that blacks are better athletes because of the predisposition of a few in this thread to nit pick, split hairs and miss the forest for one tree.
As we all know, there is a huge variety of activities that are "classified" under sports. For example, body building is a sport.
In my opinion, those that requires music background and judges to score based on personal taste and opinion should be in a separate class. But that's besides the point.
After taking out those, we're still left with activities such as F-1 racing. Besides physical endurance, it requires concentration, hand-eye-coordination, different set of motor skills. Not to mention a heavy dose of tradition, lot of social connections, politics, and a deep pocket to be a F-1 racer.
The fact that we don't see blacks in F-1 doesn't mean they don't possess the physical attributes. Maybe in the future that will change as well, just like we're starting to see blacks as quarter backs, golf and tennis. But there's a lot of sports out there that they don't show up, so we can't generalize yet that blacks are good all around athletes. But we do know they are good in physical activities emphasized by sports like in the NBA, NFL, and track and field.
Perhaps you should ask Doug Williams "how long he has been a black quaterback" Have you ever head of Arthur Ashe?
You don't mention the most popular pro sport in the world, soccer. where the racial "dominance" you mention doesn't exist.

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Is it not conceivable to you that one race can be better at some activities than others?
Are you embracing the theory that all children are equal, blank slates, and that we can mold them and they will all (average speaking of course) turn out the same if the efforts are the same?
As Flynn pointed out.
"see the Editorial in Nature Genetics (24, 97-98, 2002): 'the concept of race is a social and cultural construction which has no scientific justification in human biology'."
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:45 PM   #154
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You are more than entitled to your opinion. However, given they highly questionable nature of the suppositions, IMO, it is a vastly malformed opinion.
Again, for the n-th time, what is your opinion?
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:35 PM   #155
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The NFL/NBA arguments are a joke. Athletics extends FAR beyond the realm of two minor sports on the world stage. And when taken in that global context, there is virtually no clear genetic advantage for any race in athletics.

As for your genetics "argument".

The hypothosys of which you cite can be called into serious question.
I wonder if we could clone a cave man, like cro magnon or even an early **** sapiens.....if you raised him in the modern world, would he be just as intelligent if you provided him wlth the same background . If we taught him calculus, would he be able to do engineering and deisgn jumbo jets ?
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:03 PM   #156
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Again, for the n-th time, what is your opinion?
Who gives a rats a$$ about opinion. Scientific data demonstrates that the measurement of "IQ" and standardized test scores is absurd and is predicated on a fundamentally flawed invariance of measurement model.

A person of a fill_in_the_blank_race can go to a roulette wheel, bet a single different (or the same) number for 20 spins, and have that number come up 4 times. Does that mean their are genetically superior in playing roulette? If you use a invariance measurement model, you could show that they are.

As the information I have posted earlier clearly shows. The model is flawed.

That is not my opinion. That is what the evidence demonstrates. Have an opinion all you like. I would rather deal in facts.

My opinion on "tiger mothers" being superior. That was posted much earlier in this thread. It is balderdash. And my opinion is backed up by the evidence that shows that the means by which the alleged "superiority" is "proved" is using invariance measurement models which are fundamentally flawed. Ergo, the "evidence" supporting the claim that they are is a crock of crapola.

You want to have your opinion that they are great. I really don;t give a damn. But, when you start talk junk and posting your "science" that proves it. You are likely to be challenged on it And in this case, pimp slapped into next week on the topic because you didn't understand the fundamental flaw in your argument. You built your foundation on something of no substance. OK, it happens. I hope you have gained a better insight into the flaws of your "science" for your opinion. But, I doubt it.
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:06 PM   #157
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I wonder if we could clone a cave man, like cro magnon or even an early **** sapiens.....if you raised him in the modern world, would he be just as intelligent if you provided him wlth the same background . If we taught him calculus, would he be able to do engineering and deisgn jumbo jets ?
If you took enough of them and raised them in a middle class household, probably you would have a a few who could. Not every human today can engineer and design a jumbo jet either. Actually, very few can.

You might find Minsky's Society of Mind an interesting read.
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:19 PM   #158
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Who gives a rats a$$ about opinion. Scientific data demonstrates that the measurement of "IQ" and standardized test scores is absurd and is predicated on a fundamentally flawed invariance of measurement model.

A person of a fill_in_the_blank_race can go to a roulette wheel, bet a single different (or the same) number for 20 spins, and have that number come up 4 times. Does that mean their are genetically superior in playing roulette? If you use a invariance measurement model, you could show that they are.

As the information I have posted earlier clearly shows. The model is flawed.

That is not my opinion. That is what the evidence demonstrates. Have an opinion all you like. I would rather deal in facts.

My opinion on "tiger mothers" being superior. That was posted much earlier in this thread. It is balderdash. And my opinion is backed up by the evidence that shows that the means by which the alleged "superiority" is "proved" is using invariance measurement models which are fundamentally flawed. Ergo, the "evidence" supporting the claim that they are is a crock of crapola.

You want to have your opinion that they are great. I really don;t give a damn. But, when you start talk junk and posting your "science" that proves it. You are likely to be challenged on it And in this case, pimp slapped into next week on the topic because you didn't understand the fundamental flaw in your argument. You built your foundation on something of no substance. OK, it happens. I hope you have gained a better insight into the flaws of your "science" for your opinion. But, I doubt it.
Typical cop out bs.
I did not pick and chose basic atomic blocks and built my opinion.
There are books written on the entire subject, as a whole. Books like The Bell Curve presents data that shows the difference between races. BTW, your quoting Flynn to say that there's no race is just your attempt to detract from the topic. You know what we mean. You know what the topic is about. I don't care if you call it race or groups or villages. Blacks, Asians, Whites, etc, evolved in isolation for thousands of years. Are you saying there's no evolution? Are you saying that isolated groups will all evolve identically? Darwin (perhaps you've heard of him) will disagree with you.

Your favorite author, Flynn, also will disagree with you on your response that if we raised a bunch of cavemen in today's society that they would be as smart (on average) as a modern kid. Flynn said that intelligence increased over the years, did he not? And Flynn didn't question the basis of IQ testing either. He just noticed that the IQ averages increased with time. FAIL.

I'm thinking now that you must have scored really low in your IQ test. That'd explain your contempt.

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Old 01-26-2011, 06:06 PM   #159
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Typical cop out bs.
I did not pick and chose basic atomic blocks and built my opinion.
There are books written on the entire subject, as a whole. Books like The Bell Curve presents data that shows the difference between races. BTW, your quoting Flynn to say that there's no race is just your attempt to detract from the topic. You know what we mean. You know what the topic is about. I don't care if you call it race or groups or villages. Blacks, Asians, Whites, etc, evolved in isolation for thousands of years. Are you saying there's no evolution? Are you saying that isolated groups will all evolve identically? Darwin (perhaps you've heard of him) will disagree with you.

Your favorite author, Flynn, also will disagree with you on your response that if we raised a bunch of cavemen in today's society that they would be as smart (on average) as a modern kid. Flynn said that intelligence increased over the years, did he not? And Flynn didn't question the basis of IQ testing either. He just noticed that the IQ averages increased with time. FAIL.

Cop out my a$$, sunshine. Having an opinion based on actual evidence is rational. Besides you don't "like" my opinion, ask me if give a bleep. You have shown in your posts you don't know what you are talking about.

Yes, a plethora of books have been written showing differences between race. Whoop-dee-doo.
It never occured to you that plenty of books were written that said the sun revolved around the earth was well. At that time, it was based on what they could observe. Along comes Copernicus and "boooooooom", all those books are now incorrect. The same applies here.

For the record, basketball was invented in 1891, American football was 1869 (although more like rugby to be fair). Both were predominately dominated by "whites" until at least the 1950's. Are you going to tell me that blacks have genetically evolved to be superior in those sports in the last 50-60 years.

And you are incorrect. Flynn did not say "that intelligence increased over the years". He said that IQ test scores increased over the years in more developed countries. This showed not an increase in intelligence, but, that IQ testing is flawed.
That fact that even after all that has been posted you missed this simple fact only demonstrates that you do not understand what you are talking about.

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I'm thinking now that you must have scored really low in your IQ test. That'd explain your contempt.
Po, your posts show you don't think at all.
As for your guess as to my IQ score, quite the opposite actually. Not that it matters.

Tell me Po,
How many patents do you hold?
How many books in your professional field have you published?
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:19 PM   #160
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Po saying "Black are good at some sports and not others" is like me saying "White people are good at drawing cars, but not motorcycles."
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