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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 03-13-2011, 10:35 PM   #21
Rush4theYehO
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You poor b*stards....
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:42 AM   #22
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It does restrict its own residents and out of state owners. However if you are going to visit you have to abide by California law even if you are lets say a resident from Oregon. If I goto California I have to abide by California law with my rifles, which means I have to install a bullet button, mag lock, or other laws they have as per their chart. I can get around this by working for DHS. Like the military you can apply for a AW permit before you enter the state. Downside is you are restricted to 10 round magazines but you can run a featured rifle.

They are working on a new law to allow 20-30 round magazines.. there is a thread on Calguns right now. Not sure where it is..

SBR's and SBS are almost impossible to get. You have to apply for a "Dangerous Weapons Permit" and it must be approved before you can assemble those weapons in the state along with BATF approval but 98% of California Police Chiefs will not sign off on your Form 4.
I know that my duty G22 can get through w/ 15rd mags because of LEOSA, but I wonder how far I can take that and what leeway they give to LEOs. If I were to take a carbine course out yonder, there's no effing way I'm going to put a bullet button on any of my rifles. How do you get those AW permits? Call the California Polit Bureau?
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:24 AM   #23
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I know that my duty G22 can get through w/ 15rd mags because of LEOSA, but I wonder how far I can take that and what leeway they give to LEOs. If I were to take a carbine course out yonder, there's no effing way I'm going to put a bullet button on any of my rifles. How do you get those AW permits? Call the California Polit Bureau?
There are some limitations to that law.

Here you go...

'Assault weapons' permit
Active duty military with PCS (permanent change of station) orders to California and who own personal weapons California defines as 'assault weapons' should contact the California Department of Justice regarding a Military Assault Weapon Permit (MAWP). CA-DOJ also suggests you contact your base/station/post legal staff for assistance.

With a MAWP, the service member may bring those weapons on the permit into California.

Once obtained, the MAWP may be renewed annually. If the service member separates from Active Duty while in California, the MAWP is no longer effective, and the 'assault weapons' become illegal and must be removed from the state or otherwise handled according to law.

DOJ Contact Information:

General Information Phone: (916) 263-4887 Fax: (916) 263-0676

Assault Weapon Registration and Special Weapon Permits Phone: (916) 263-8100 Fax: (916) 263-0790

Department of Justice Firearms Licensing and Permits Section - MAWP PO Box 160367 Sacramento, CA 95816-0367

Bureau of Firearms P.O. Box 820200 Sacramento, CA 94203-0200
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:23 AM   #24
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Reinforces my belief that if I lived in California, I'd either move or shoot myself in the face.
Seriously.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:02 PM   #25
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I know that my duty G22 can get through w/ 15rd mags because of LEOSA, but I wonder how far I can take that and what leeway they give to LEOs. If I were to take a carbine course out yonder, there's no effing way I'm going to put a bullet button on any of my rifles. How do you get those AW permits? Call the California Polit Bureau?
A personal relationship with god may not help you do that. Good luck.

OP, to have an AR in CA, your best bet is to buy an off-list lower receiver and build your own; doing so will get you the best price-performance compared to other options. Cal-guns.net has a lot of good info, as well as a list of shops in state that specialize in evil black rifles. If you are interested in buying a fully assembled rifle, riflegear.com sells ca legal versions (10 rd mag and bullet button installed) of almost all the rifles they carry.
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:01 PM   #26
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A personal relationship with god may not help you do that. Good luck.

OP, to have an AR in CA, your best bet is to buy an off-list lower receiver and build your own; doing so will get you the best price-performance compared to other options. Cal-guns.net has a lot of good info, as well as a list of shops in state that specialize in evil black rifles. If you are interested in buying a fully assembled rifle, riflegear.com sells ca legal versions (10 rd mag and bullet button installed) of almost all the rifles they carry.
I'm solving the problem by not going to CA. Like I said, my duty pistol is kosher, but everything else is too much of a hassle to mess with. US Training Center has a California location now, which is why I asked. I'll stick with Moyock, NC.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:10 PM   #27
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A personal relationship with god may not help you do that. Good luck.

OP, to have an AR in CA, your best bet is to buy an off-list lower receiver and build your own; doing so will get you the best price-performance compared to other options. Cal-guns.net has a lot of good info, as well as a list of shops in state that specialize in evil black rifles. If you are interested in buying a fully assembled rifle, riflegear.com sells ca legal versions (10 rd mag and bullet button installed) of almost all the rifles they carry.
Thanks for the info. I'll check the web site to see if I like something - I know I will have to live with the 10 round mag and a bullet button

I found these http://www.riflegear.com/p-585-danie...-xv-rifle.aspx http://www.riflegear.com/p-871-danie...ine-rifle.aspx
what do you guys think? Is Daniel Defense a decent manufature?

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Old 03-14-2011, 07:37 PM   #28
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Thanks for the info. I'll check the web site to see if I like something - I know I will have to live with the 10 round mag and a bullet button

I found these http://www.riflegear.com/p-585-danie...-xv-rifle.aspx http://www.riflegear.com/p-871-danie...ine-rifle.aspx
what do you guys think? Is Daniel Defense a decent manufature?
Daniel Defense is an awesome rifle. One of the top 5 IMO.

Also, if you are US military/DHS tell CDOJ to pack sand and get the permit. That way you won't have to go through the hassle that civilians have to go through or I should say put up with. Total BS but thats California.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:50 PM   #29
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+1 for Daniel Defense. They make fantastic stuff. The cold hammer forged (CHF) barrels they make are among the best government profile carbine barrels on the market, if not the best. Their rails are very strong and durable, and DD has excellent quality control on their products. For the build I have currently going on, I have DD barrel, FSP, rail, bolt carrier group, lower parts kit, vertical grip and receiver QD end plate.
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:17 AM   #30
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Daniel Defense is an awesome rifle. One of the top 5 IMO.

Also, if you are US military/DHS tell CDOJ to pack sand and get the permit. That way you won't have to go through the hassle that civilians have to go through or I should say put up with. Total BS but thats California.
Thanks for the recommendations but I'm not US Military and will have to go through the hassle here in California
Any recommendation what to write or not write on the application?
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:31 PM   #31
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Ok - So I'm getting the AR-15 XV Daniel Defense http://www.riflegear.com/p-585-danie...-xv-rifle.aspx I would like to add a grip and "riflegear" suggested to get the midwet industry rail and a grip of my liking. Any suggestions?
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:31 PM   #32
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It's sacrilegious to put anything other than a Daniel Defense rail on a DD gun. Just sayin..
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:04 PM   #33
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It's sacrilegious to put anything other than a Daniel Defense rail on a DD gun. Just sayin..
Thanks for the input _ I will make sure is a DD rail. Also any recommendation on a sight?
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:13 PM   #34
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If you want just a drop-in replacement rail, look at the Daniel Defense EZ CAR rail. However, if you want to go to a free floated rail, I would recommend either the Omega X-Rail, AR15 LITE Rail, or the M4 Rail. Those are good for basic setups. If you fancy an extended rail, look into the 12.0 FSP versions of those rails.

What kind of sight are you looking for? What is your budget?
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:46 PM   #35
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If you want just a drop-in replacement rail, look at the Daniel Defense EZ CAR rail. However, if you want to go to a free floated rail, I would recommend either the Omega X-Rail, AR15 LITE Rail, or the M4 Rail. Those are good for basic setups. If you fancy an extended rail, look into the 12.0 FSP versions of those rails.

What kind of sight are you looking for? What is your budget?
Well! the riflr is $1100 the rail and grip could be 100 maybe another 120 for the sight
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:31 PM   #36
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Well! the riflr is $1100 the rail and grip could be 100 maybe another 120 for the sight
$120 is not much for a sight. I say just stick and learn with the irons on this new rifle then move to a used Eotech or used Aimpoint. Both great red dots.
I have seen them used for around $250 or so.

If you want power I only have experience with Trijicon Acogs and now Elcan SpecterDRs'...

They start at $1000 and go upto $2500...Maybe Reedo can chime in here?
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:43 AM   #37
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$120 is not much for a sight. I say just stick and learn with the irons on this new rifle then move to a used Eotech or used Aimpoint. Both great red dots.
I have seen them used for around $250 or so.

If you want power I only have experience with Trijicon Acogs and now Elcan SpecterDRs'...

They start at $1000 and go upto $2500...Maybe Reedo can chime in here?
I'm with you. $120 is not going to get you a good electronic sight. Used sights can go for $250-300 for EOTechs and Aimpoint ML2s. There's no reason to skimp on optics and buy junk. I have been hearing about more and more cheap red dots crapping out. Major tactical groups like Larry Vickers, Red Back One/Jason Falla, USTC, and EAG Tactical keep extra optics and rifles on hand for people who bring junk optics to their courses, because the optics will inevitably crap out. There's a lot to be said about mastering the use of iron sights. A Daniel Defense fixed rear A1.5 sight will run for $65 and is as tough as nails. I honestly believe that people should follow what the military does and learn to master iron sights before they ever get into an optic.

As for magnification, there are several options, but nothing feasible for less than around $900. As was pointed out, the ACOG is right there at the bottom end of the cost spectrum, while still being a durable and reliable optic. There are other options, like the Leupold HAMR, US Optics SN-12/12R, the Elcans, and then the myriad of 1-4x scopes. I think the best option for magnification right now is the 1-4x scope, particularly the new Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 for $499.
I also think that for the average carbine user, it's a little more feasible to go with a red dot sight and a 3x magnifier on a movable mount. Specifically the Aimpoint and EOTech variants. I'm getting more and more distrusting of EOTechs due to a lot of the issues that have been brought forth by end users, so I would put my money behind the Aimpoints.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:09 AM   #38
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If you are looking for a cheaper red dot, I've heard some fantastic things about the Vortex SPARC sight. $200, and from what I've seen holds up pretty well. Take a look!
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:09 AM   #39
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I'm with you. $120 is not going to get you a good electronic sight. Used sights can go for $250-300 for EOTechs and Aimpoint ML2s. There's no reason to skimp on optics and buy junk. I have been hearing about more and more cheap red dots crapping out. Major tactical groups like Larry Vickers, Red Back One/Jason Falla, USTC, and EAG Tactical keep extra optics and rifles on hand for people who bring junk optics to their courses, because the optics will inevitably crap out. There's a lot to be said about mastering the use of iron sights. A Daniel Defense fixed rear A1.5 sight will run for $65 and is as tough as nails. I honestly believe that people should follow what the military does and learn to master iron sights before they ever get into an optic.

As for magnification, there are several options, but nothing feasible for less than around $900. As was pointed out, the ACOG is right there at the bottom end of the cost spectrum, while still being a durable and reliable optic. There are other options, like the Leupold HAMR, US Optics SN-12/12R, the Elcans, and then the myriad of 1-4x scopes. I think the best option for magnification right now is the 1-4x scope, particularly the new Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 for $499.
I also think that for the average carbine user, it's a little more feasible to go with a red dot sight and a 3x magnifier on a movable mount. Specifically the Aimpoint and EOTech variants. I'm getting more and more distrusting of EOTechs due to a lot of the issues that have been brought forth by end users, so I would put my money behind the Aimpoints.
You know another red dot/chevron optic I kind of liked was the Trijicon Tripower. Only downside was after continuous use at an indoor range with the KRISS Super V the front lens got loose and came out. Now I am talking about 400 rounds straight of .45 ACP 230 grain ammo and about 5 trips worth.
However, the first year I had it on an AR15, I had not one issue. So I moved to the MARS day/night optic. That ran $1000 but that too had no issues on an AR15 but then had some crapping out issues with the KRISS. Aimpoint and Eotechs no issues on either. So IMO it had something to do with placement on the KRISS Super V that made both the Trijicon Tripower and MARS day/night short out a few times which is UNSAT. Eventually after placement changes with the MARS, it was fine, but the Trijicon Tripower was toast. The Trijicon Tripower wasn't exactly cheap either and it was a Trijicon. Just goes to show you even good solid, battle tested optics can crap out.

Another one he could try on the cheaper side is the C-more CTAC Reflex. I had no issues with that one. I would go with the top of the line here as the other C-mores are junk and for Airsoft.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:07 PM   #40
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I apologize I will be changing my decision and at this time I'm strongly considering the M4 instead of the AR-15 what are your thoughts. I have not fire any of these weapons but I know I want to get one or the other. I like the compact size of the AR however more and more I believe I will like the M4 due to its size (also there are more features already included on the DD M4V2 or V4 than the Ar-15 XV EZ). The question will be which one will feel more comfortable? Can you provide more insight on your experince on these rifles?

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