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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 05-31-2011, 12:46 AM   #1
carcus
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Probably trading in my Glock 19 for a Glock 27 tomorrow.

I think I can get a decent trade price for the Glock 19. I just do not shoot it as much and prefer the Glock 21 for home and auto carry.

Will be getting a Glock 27 under the military/LEO price....$395 with standard sights. Will be a better carry weapon for me.

I did look at the Glock 26 as an option though. This will be a CCW gun for me.

Any Glock 26/27 owners here? Curious on your personal opinions of these tools.

I looked at the Kahr....nice but way too expensive....Kel-Tec is nice but I just have a thing for Glocks.

EDIT: And I do not want to start a caliber war with the 26/27....and the ammo difference for a carry weapon is not that much different between the 9mm and 40 S&W. This is a carry only gun, just minimal range time for practice.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:25 AM   #2
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I carry a G27 off-duty, and have been carrying it for about 6 years now. It's been a great gun. I have it set up with Trijicon night sights, as well as the Pearce +1 grip extensions for 10rds in the mag. These are necessities for a CCW gun. This gives me 10+1, as I always carry a round chambered and am vehemently against "Israeli carry".
I actually shoot my G27 a lot at the range. I also shoot IPSC league on Mondays, and I occasionally will leave the G34 in the car and use my G27 instead. The last time I used my G27, I won the Production class and took 3rd overall for the night. It was shorter range courses of fire that night. If I see that we're going to be doing some longer shots (20yds+), I do go back to the G34. It is a very remarkable gun once you learn to shoot it. I shoot 100% with it on every annual qualification (mandated per dept policy) without issue. I used to be the only one with a G27 for off-duty. Now about 6 guys have them.

I've said it in a previous thread, but the G26/27 pistols are truly combat-capable. Most CCW pistols are designed for a quick response defense situation, whereas the G26/27 has a capability of being an offensive weapon in the event it must be used in a drawn-out incident, such as an active-shooter scenario at a school or shopping mall. I also used to carry a Kahr PM9, and it was a very easy gun to carry off-duty. It was also very accurate and I liked it. However, a 6rd magazine and the shorter, smaller design of the weapon made it a purely defensive weapon. For a typical carry scenario, that's all you need. For me, I decided that I wanted a weapon that would allow me to engage multiple threats in an offensive, as well as defensive, capacity. My agency's policy has language in it that basically says that if I encounter a violent felony crime (aggravated assault, robbery, kidnapping, sexual assault, etc.), I'm doing it under the auspices of a police officer, and as such I have the same duties and liabilities associated with it as I would on-duty. Basically, that means that there is an assumption that if a major critical incident arises, I am obligated to get involved if I am carrying. Because of that, and the fact that I do believe in the merit of that policy, I decided that I needed to bring the proper gun to the fight.

I will say that the G26 is a suitable alternative, and there are two advantages that it has over the 27. First, you have an additional round in the magazine, so when you get your grip extension, you can go 11+1. Second, the recoil is less, and with the smaller size of the weapon, you will have more control. I have been able to shoot my 27 very well, but it wasn't until I started lifting weights regularly and really developed my grip and arm strength that I really became exceptional with the gun. The smaller size and added recoil of the .40 make grip strength a very important variable. Just something to think about.

The S&W M&P40c is also a viable alternative, and I wouldn't rule them out until you try them. They're $455 with night sights, so right on par with Glock.
http://www.ombexpress.com/p_SW004.aspx

If you do want a Kahr but want to spend less money, look into the CM9. It's the same as the PM9, but they used some different production process to make it about $200 cheaper than the PM9. LEO price is $360, and PM9 price is $540.
http://shop.ombguns.com/c-358-kahr-arms.aspx
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Last edited by Reedo302; 05-31-2011 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:26 AM   #3
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I love my G26.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:03 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
I carry a G27 off-duty, and have been carrying it for about 6 years now. It's been a great gun. I have it set up with Trijicon night sights, as well as the Pearce +1 grip extensions for 10rds in the mag. These are necessities for a CCW gun. This gives me 10+1, as I always carry a round chambered and am vehemently against "Israeli carry".
I actually shoot my G27 a lot at the range. I also shoot IPSC league on Mondays, and I occasionally will leave the G34 in the car and use my G27 instead. The last time I used my G27, I won the Production class and took 3rd overall for the night. It was shorter range courses of fire that night. If I see that we're going to be doing some longer shots (20yds+), I do go back to the G34. It is a very remarkable gun once you learn to shoot it. I shoot 100% with it on every annual qualification (mandated per dept policy) without issue. I used to be the only one with a G27 for off-duty. Now about 6 guys have them.

I've said it in a previous thread, but the G26/27 pistols are truly combat-capable. Most CCW pistols are designed for a quick response defense situation, whereas the G26/27 has a capability of being an offensive weapon in the event it must be used in a drawn-out incident, such as an active-shooter scenario at a school or shopping mall. I also used to carry a Kahr PM9, and it was a very easy gun to carry off-duty. It was also very accurate and I liked it. However, a 6rd magazine and the shorter, smaller design of the weapon made it a purely defensive weapon. For a typical carry scenario, that's all you need. For me, I decided that I wanted a weapon that would allow me to engage multiple threats in an offensive, as well as defensive, capacity. My agency's policy has language in it that basically says that if I encounter a violent felony crime (aggravated assault, robbery, kidnapping, sexual assault, etc.), I'm doing it under the auspices of a police officer, and as such I have the same duties and liabilities associated with it as I would on-duty. Basically, that means that there is an assumption that if a major critical incident arises, I am obligated to get involved if I am carrying. Because of that, and the fact that I do believe in the merit of that policy, I decided that I needed to bring the proper gun to the fight.

I will say that the G26 is a suitable alternative, and there are two advantages that it has over the 27. First, you have an additional round in the magazine, so when you get your grip extension, you can go 11+1. Second, the recoil is less, and with the smaller size of the weapon, you will have more control. I have been able to shoot my 27 very well, but it wasn't until I started lifting weights regularly and really developed my grip and arm strength that I really became exceptional with the gun. The smaller size and added recoil of the .40 make grip strength a very important variable. Just something to think about.

The S&W M&P40c is also a viable alternative, and I wouldn't rule them out until you try them. They're $455 with night sights, so right on par with Glock.
http://www.ombexpress.com/p_SW004.aspx

If you do want a Kahr but want to spend less money, look into the CM9. It's the same as the PM9, but they used some different production process to make it about $200 cheaper than the PM9. LEO price is $360, and PM9 price is $540.
http://shop.ombguns.com/c-358-kahr-arms.aspx
Always love your posts; so much great info.

For the record, I've shot both. Both are great, but I own neither. I live and die by my G19; it just feels perfect. I have a G30 too, but nothing feels like the 19; that price you're getting is fantastic though.
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Old 05-31-2011, 08:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
I carry a G27 off-duty, and have been carrying it for about 6 years now. It's been a great gun. I have it set up with Trijicon night sights, as well as the Pearce +1 grip extensions for 10rds in the mag. These are necessities for a CCW gun. This gives me 10+1, as I always carry a round chambered and am vehemently against "Israeli carry".
I actually shoot my G27 a lot at the range. I also shoot IPSC league on Mondays, and I occasionally will leave the G34 in the car and use my G27 instead. The last time I used my G27, I won the Production class and took 3rd overall for the night. It was shorter range courses of fire that night. If I see that we're going to be doing some longer shots (20yds+), I do go back to the G34. It is a very remarkable gun once you learn to shoot it. I shoot 100% with it on every annual qualification (mandated per dept policy) without issue. I used to be the only one with a G27 for off-duty. Now about 6 guys have them.

I've said it in a previous thread, but the G26/27 pistols are truly combat-capable. Most CCW pistols are designed for a quick response defense situation, whereas the G26/27 has a capability of being an offensive weapon in the event it must be used in a drawn-out incident, such as an active-shooter scenario at a school or shopping mall. I also used to carry a Kahr PM9, and it was a very easy gun to carry off-duty. It was also very accurate and I liked it. However, a 6rd magazine and the shorter, smaller design of the weapon made it a purely defensive weapon. For a typical carry scenario, that's all you need. For me, I decided that I wanted a weapon that would allow me to engage multiple threats in an offensive, as well as defensive, capacity. My agency's policy has language in it that basically says that if I encounter a violent felony crime (aggravated assault, robbery, kidnapping, sexual assault, etc.), I'm doing it under the auspices of a police officer, and as such I have the same duties and liabilities associated with it as I would on-duty. Basically, that means that there is an assumption that if a major critical incident arises, I am obligated to get involved if I am carrying. Because of that, and the fact that I do believe in the merit of that policy, I decided that I needed to bring the proper gun to the fight.

I will say that the G26 is a suitable alternative, and there are two advantages that it has over the 27. First, you have an additional round in the magazine, so when you get your grip extension, you can go 11+1. Second, the recoil is less, and with the smaller size of the weapon, you will have more control. I have been able to shoot my 27 very well, but it wasn't until I started lifting weights regularly and really developed my grip and arm strength that I really became exceptional with the gun. The smaller size and added recoil of the .40 make grip strength a very important variable. Just something to think about.

The S&W M&P40c is also a viable alternative, and I wouldn't rule them out until you try them. They're $455 with night sights, so right on par with Glock.
http://www.ombexpress.com/p_SW004.aspx

If you do want a Kahr but want to spend less money, look into the CM9. It's the same as the PM9, but they used some different production process to make it about $200 cheaper than the PM9. LEO price is $360, and PM9 price is $540.
http://shop.ombguns.com/c-358-kahr-arms.aspx
Thanks so much for the review. I ended up getting the Glock 26 4th Gen under the LEO/MIL program. Paid $398 for it. Great deal. I added the Pierce grip extension and perfect fit. Going to take it out for a test drive tomorrow at the range. I wanted better accuracy for follow up shots so took the 26 over the 27. This will be my all around carry gun to supplement my Glock 21. I did look at the Kahr...but no way I was going to pay what they wanted for it.
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:26 AM   #6
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New pics of just my favorite toys.....Glock 26 on the left...love it. Glock 21 with polished barrel on the right....Walther P22 for fun cheap shooting. Just wanted to post a pic.



Crimson Trace is on the way for the Glock 26 and put on my grip extensions. Vice grips help to relieve the spring pressure.

EDIT: Glock 19 is gone, got rid of it for $300. But got the new Gen 4 Glock 26 for $398. Gotta love the LEO/MIL deal. WOOT WOOT!!!
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:36 AM   #7
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I love my gen 4 G26, but honestly it feels a tiny bit small in my hands even with the pinky extender - not enough to be really uncomfortable, but enough to think about changing it up if a good deal comes around. I shot my friend's gen 3 G19 and loved it. I may be looking to pick up a gen 4 G19 in the near future.
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:32 PM   #8
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I carry a 26 when I need more than my S&W 638.

I usually use a 15 round (G19) mag in it.

Its a fantastic gun especially for its price and size.

I stuck with 9mm to match my other Glocks for mags, etc.

JMO.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:17 AM   #9
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I carry a 26 when I need more than my S&W 638.

I usually use a 15 round (G19) mag in it.

Its a fantastic gun especially for its price and size.

I stuck with 9mm to match my other Glocks for mags, etc.

JMO.
It shot great for me, put 200 rounds through it....as usual with all the Glocks I have owned...no issues. The Kimber 1911 Raptor II though is a different story. Just hit 250 rounds on it today. Shot 50 rounds and had 3 FTL this time out of 50. Needless to say...not happy with it for reliability. Glad I got it as a range gun. A Glock will always be the one I trust my life with.

I have another Pierce grip on the way for the Glock 26. Works so much better in my hands with it. Also, Crimson Tracer will go on soon. Thing will fit in my jeans with the Pierce grip on it no problem...I do not wear tight jeans though. Love this gun and I like what the Gen 4 changes are.

Just my range report.
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:34 AM   #10
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It shot great for me, put 200 rounds through it....as usual with all the Glocks I have owned...no issues. The Kimber 1911 Raptor II though is a different story. Just hit 250 rounds on it today. Shot 50 rounds and had 3 FTL this time out of 50. Needless to say...not happy with it for reliability. Glad I got it as a range gun. A Glock will always be the one I trust my life with.
As a former and never-again Kimber owner, allow me to impart what I learned about this issue:
I'm assuming you're getting stovepipe malfunctions.
Kimber cuts their chambers really tight. Their tolerances are tighter than most other companies, so you often see the stovepiping with factory ammunition. There are some models which seem to have more forgiving tolerances than others. Kimber claims that they have either Match Grade or Premium Match Grade parts, depending upon model. I think the "Premium Match Grade" models tend to be the most problematic. My Tactical Custom II only shot handloads reliably because I put tighter crimps on them. Kimber will claim it's bad ammo, or say that it's just because they use such exacting tolerances for match grade accuracy.
If you find a gunsmith that really knows their shit about 1911s, they'll be able to explain it to you better than I can. If you have couple thousandths taken out of the chamber, it'll be good to go.
In the meantime, get yourself an upgraded recoil spring. Kimber springs are only rated for 1500-1800rds, so you'll have to do it soon enough anyways. Hop onto Brownells.com and find a 17lb or 18lb spring. The heavier recoil spring will reduce the amount of stovepipes you'll get, though it won't eliminate the issue.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
As a former and never-again Kimber owner, allow me to impart what I learned about this issue:
I'm assuming you're getting stovepipe malfunctions.
Kimber cuts their chambers really tight. Their tolerances are tighter than most other companies, so you often see the stovepiping with factory ammunition. There are some models which seem to have more forgiving tolerances than others. Kimber claims that they have either Match Grade or Premium Match Grade parts, depending upon model. I think the "Premium Match Grade" models tend to be the most problematic. My Tactical Custom II only shot handloads reliably because I put tighter crimps on them. Kimber will claim it's bad ammo, or say that it's just because they use such exacting tolerances for match grade accuracy.
If you find a gunsmith that really knows their shit about 1911s, they'll be able to explain it to you better than I can. If you have couple thousandths taken out of the chamber, it'll be good to go.
In the meantime, get yourself an upgraded recoil spring. Kimber springs are only rated for 1500-1800rds, so you'll have to do it soon enough anyways. Hop onto Brownells.com and find a 17lb or 18lb spring. The heavier recoil spring will reduce the amount of stovepipes you'll get, though it won't eliminate the issue.
Or avoid all the problems and just get a Springfield....
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:44 AM   #12
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Picture of my new Gen 4 Glock 26.....not bad for $398.

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Old 06-02-2011, 02:55 AM   #13
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Or avoid all the problems and just get a Springfield....
1yr Warranty w/ terrible Customer Service vs Lifetime Warranty w/ excellent CS.... what are you getting at here?





Sorry Carcus. If you aren't aware, I've had a lot of problems with Kimber. Between my Tactical Custom II and the 8400 Advanced Tactical .308, it's been an absolute nightmare owning a Kimber, and then dealing with them as many times as I have. People mention Kimber, and I open up my bottle of Hatorade.
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:32 AM   #14
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OH! What kind of ammunition are you planning on using for carry?
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:28 AM   #15
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1yr Warranty w/ terrible Customer Service vs Lifetime Warranty w/ excellent CS.... what are you getting at here?





Sorry Carcus. If you aren't aware, I've had a lot of problems with Kimber. Between my Tactical Custom II and the 8400 Advanced Tactical .308, it's been an absolute nightmare owning a Kimber, and then dealing with them as many times as I have. People mention Kimber, and I open up my bottle of Hatorade.
Rob cohen ruined the company - and he's ruining Sig Sauer as we speak. It's fair to say in his job, he's been wildly successful. He grew Kimber from a relatively small well known 1911 manufacturer (series I guns were great) into something mass-produced with shoddy QC. Sig Sauer's been having QC issues all over too. Look at the debacle on their P220 internal extractors as of late, plus the flops known as their 1911 line, P250, P238. Sig used to have the "to hell and back reliability" as their motto....
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:49 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
As a former and never-again Kimber owner, allow me to impart what I learned about this issue:
I'm assuming you're getting stovepipe malfunctions.
Kimber cuts their chambers really tight. Their tolerances are tighter than most other companies, so you often see the stovepiping with factory ammunition. There are some models which seem to have more forgiving tolerances than others. Kimber claims that they have either Match Grade or Premium Match Grade parts, depending upon model. I think the "Premium Match Grade" models tend to be the most problematic. My Tactical Custom II only shot handloads reliably because I put tighter crimps on them. Kimber will claim it's bad ammo, or say that it's just because they use such exacting tolerances for match grade accuracy.
If you find a gunsmith that really knows their shit about 1911s, they'll be able to explain it to you better than I can. If you have couple thousandths taken out of the chamber, it'll be good to go.
In the meantime, get yourself an upgraded recoil spring. Kimber springs are only rated for 1500-1800rds, so you'll have to do it soon enough anyways. Hop onto Brownells.com and find a 17lb or 18lb spring. The heavier recoil spring will reduce the amount of stovepipes you'll get, though it won't eliminate the issue.
Not having problems with stovepipes...not one at all...they just seem to hang up on the ramp.
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
1yr Warranty w/ terrible Customer Service vs Lifetime Warranty w/ excellent CS.... what are you getting at here?





Sorry Carcus. If you aren't aware, I've had a lot of problems with Kimber. Between my Tactical Custom II and the 8400 Advanced Tactical .308, it's been an absolute nightmare owning a Kimber, and then dealing with them as many times as I have. People mention Kimber, and I open up my bottle of Hatorade.
I understand....and when you pay that much for a gun...should have no issues...at least that is how I feel. I would never have the 1911 as a carry gun anyways though. Right now, what I depend on is the Glock 21 and Glock 26. Never had any issues or misfires with a Glock....even my Glock 19 I just sold. Funny thing though, my friend just got a Glock 19C and it has jammed quite a few times. I am stumped on that one. I think it is because of the compensated barrel on the 9mm....don't know. Any ideas? He has been shooting WWB ammo. All my Glocks eat that like candy. He has only put 300 rounds through it.
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:18 AM   #18
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Not having problems with stovepipes...not one at all...they just seem to hang up on the ramp.
I know exactly what you are talking about. My Kimber did that. It's a form of stovepipe malfuction, and is the stovepipe I was referring to. It's because of the ramp and chamber being too tight of tolerance. If you want the problem to reduce, get a heavier spring. If you want it to be eliminated, either start handloading your ammo or get it milled by a gunsmith. If you handload your ammo and put on tighter crimps, your Kimber will run like a Swiss clock. Getting it milled is the permanent and more reliable solution, though.

If you call Kimber, they won't talk to you about it over the phone. It doesn't matter who you are. They will answer hypothetical questions, but that's about it. You'll be required to prove ownership and date of purchase, send it in at your own expense, and then they'll ship it back to you when complete, also at your expense. Likely they will tell you that it's nothing wrong mechanically, and they'll tell you they can mill it out for you, but you'll have to pay for it since it's not a warranty issue.
Kimber doesn't really view that as a problem. It hampers reliability, but it does lend to Kimbers being incredibly accurate. To date, my Kimber is probably the most accurate handgun I've shot. There is some logic behind it for competition and target shooting. This is also part of the reason why LAPD guns (TLE, TLE/RL, SIS) are not the "Premium Match Grade" level, and just standard "Match Grade". The high-end guns are too picky. The same goes for the DesertWarrior pistols issued to USMC MEU-SOC. Of course, those guns are custom-built for those groups, so I suspect that they're not using commercial tolerances, but instead using agency-specific tolerances.
I know a lot of cops that carry 1911s, and they all carry Springfields, Colts, Paras or Wilson Combats.


Quote:
Originally Posted by carcus View Post
I understand....and when you pay that much for a gun...should have no issues...at least that is how I feel. I would never have the 1911 as a carry gun anyways though. Right now, what I depend on is the Glock 21 and Glock 26. Never had any issues or misfires with a Glock....even my Glock 19 I just sold. Funny thing though, my friend just got a Glock 19C and it has jammed quite a few times. I am stumped on that one. I think it is because of the compensated barrel on the 9mm....don't know. Any ideas? He has been shooting WWB ammo. All my Glocks eat that like candy. He has only put 300 rounds through it.
More than likely he's limp-wristing the gun. I've seen people develop a nasty flinching from shooting the compensated models. They have a lot of "bark" to them, so it's possible that he's developed some kind of psycho-physiological coping or compensating action that is causing the gun to malfunction. Glocks don't have a ton of mass, so you need to counter the recoil. You can't just allow it to recoil back.
That, or he's using inadequate ammunition. The malfunction trouble-shooting order for from most common to least common with Glocks is SAMM:
S-Shooter
A-Ammo
M-Magazine
M-Mechanical

For polymer guns, the best way to diagnose a malfunction issue is to have someone else shoot it. Preferably someone who is familiar with polymer guns and their shooting dynamic. If the problem clears itself up, then you know it's the shooter. If the problem persists, then go to different ammo.



I don't know if you've determined what ammo you're going to carry in your G26 or not, but I would recommend that you use 124gr +P loads with a bonded hollow-point bullet. The Federal Tactical HST 124gr+P and Speer Gold Dot 124gr+P are the two best, but others to consider are the Winchester Bonded PDX 124gr+P and Remington Golden Saber Bonded 124gr.
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Last edited by Reedo302; 06-03-2011 at 03:02 AM.
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Old 06-04-2011, 03:34 AM   #19
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:56 PM   #20
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SA xd would be my choice; their chambers are really loose: a fired case from an xd 45 will not fit in a 1911 chamber, no how no way.
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