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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Gun Talk

Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 07-30-2011, 12:22 AM   #21
learthworml
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
These people are standing up for your rights and you don't even realize it, lol.

REEDO, yes police are allowed in CA to perform an unloaded check. They don't HAVE TO but they are allowed, that's fine (for now).

The problem is the harrassment and attitude towards OC'ers. Do the check, dont harass them, talk down to them, tell them to cover up or ask for ID. It's legal, so as you stated you are for lawful actions, your post is hypocritical. You also state that Open Carry is terrible from a tactical perspective. Please explain how that makes ANY sense whatsoever when you and all LEO open carry every day.

The real issue here is that CA goes to extremes to disallow people to carry at all and protect themselves. That's the issue.
How is he helping improve my rights? Sure it is our right to open carry without ammo in California, but how is this going to help our gun laws? If anything this would annoy people and create stricter laws. There is no reason to walk around the street as a civilian with an unloaded gun. What purpose does this serve? You are asking for trouble, plain and simple.

I stated that open carrying an UNLOADED gun is terrible from every standpoint. A gun is a weapon and serves no purpose without ammo. Open carrying a loaded weapon is ideal for LEO's, military, security, etc. I never stated that it wasn't.

I think open carry should be limited to those who need to(police officers, security guards, body guards, liquor store clerks..etc). The average Joe should not be walking around a playground or a bar with a gun open carried. I'm perfectly okay with CCW permits, as long as the people carrying are responsible. I wish it was easier to get a CCW in Cali, but I do not see the need for everyone to be able to open carry their weapon at will. Society has progressed a great deal from the cowboy days.
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Last edited by learthworml; 07-30-2011 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:19 AM   #22
Five_seveN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daedalus34r View Post
feels like we're never going to get ANY kind of carry in my lifetime. Wisconsin just came to their senses, now we're the only ones left.

I think the cop behaved politely and respectfully even though the stop was unwarranted. The gun holder having the typical 'imma film everything for youtube so i can disrupt the peace legally' mentality, but whatever, he wasn't doing anything illegal.

If a leo gets a call from dispatch to check out a guy walking with a rifle, what's he gonna do, say "no" ? All in all ended way better than i expected. Seems like the video author is a local celebrity among leo's lol
agreed

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Originally Posted by badfast View Post
Some individual was worried. Maybe the individual was acting suspicious? It is the officer's job to check it out. Who knows how many situations where crime was deterred simply because an officer presence became known.
its likely that whoever called it in thought he had ill intentions. i think the officer did quite well in ensuring that it was safe and the guy presented no possibility of harm to the community.

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Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
All I will say is this- only idiots openly carry unloaded guns. Good way for a thug to come up from behind, not see a magazine in the well, and then jack you. You might as well go buy a sign that says "I can't defend myself!" A law allowing open carrying of only an unloaded weapon is frickin' stupid.
This is another extension of people who are so caught up in trying to exercise their rights that they forget about the common sense of what they are doing. We see it all the time on college campuses with student protesters who try and push the 1st Amendment too far and make themselves look like wackos. We see it with certain religious protesters who go WAAYY too far. In the end, yeah, it may be your right, but that doesn't make it smart to do. It's a perfect example of the phrase, "just because you can, doesn't mean that you should".
when he mentioned that it wasnt loaded i was caught off guard. it makes no sense at all, and like you mentioned, whats the point? perhaps he was expecting some kind of dramatic spectacle when the cops showed up, therefore filming it for youtube entertainment

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Originally Posted by learthworml View Post
Being raped? The police officer handled it how it should have been handled. I don't care if it is the guy's rights, there is no reason to walk around with an unloaded gun. He did it just to prove a point. A gun is a weapon and an unloaded one is pointless. You are asking for trouble. There is no way the average person would no whether or not the gun is loaded. If I saw someone with a gun I would probably call the police too. We aren't cowboys and have no reason to open carry unless you are law enforcement. I am all for CCW if all laws are obeyed. The guy was not treated like a criminal. The officer was very polite.


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Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
The problem is that when a situation occurs where something was legitimately fvcked up (like the Canton, OH mess--definitely not good) involving law enforcement, people develop this knee-jerk reaction every time something happens. It doesn't dissipate either. Instead, it causes people to get more and more reactionary to any type of encounter, regardless of the justification or legality. There develops this increasingly rapid canonization of anyone who attempts to challenge the system and "fight the power" (which I think ironically begins to parallel along the same process that occurs to all these hippie and anarchist protesters who start riots at every political convention and claim they were just fighting the system and exercising their rights when they got thumped or tear-gassed by riot police, but that's beside the point).
I believe that there needs to be a decisive line drawn on how one should examine these situations, because it seems like some people have become too emotionally invested and lost the ability to critically analyze scenarios and then come up with conclusions that are objectively reasonable. I'm not saying that I don't support carry and possession of guns, but I also believe in a respect for laws that are established and trying to make a change through the political process. I really don't believe the Thoreau concept of Civil Disobedience works as much as it used to.
The US is a Republic as set forth by Article 4 Section 4 of the US Constitution. A Republic is a form of government based on laws. We have laws that protect freedoms and liberties, and we have laws that restrict freedoms and liberties and set forth penalties for violations. It's okay to be against certain laws, but people need to remember to not kill the messenger. If you disagree with a law allowing a LEO to check if a weapon is unloaded, you should be mad a State Senator or Representative, not the LEO that is enforcing it.
But that's just how I see it. YMMV
youre a very intelligent man. always a pleasure reading your posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
These people are standing up for your rights and you don't even realize it, lol.

REEDO, yes police are allowed in CA to perform an unloaded check. They don't HAVE TO but they are allowed, that's fine (for now).

The problem is the harrassment and attitude towards OC'ers. Do the check, dont harass them, talk down to them, tell them to cover up or ask for ID. It's legal, so as you stated you are for lawful actions, your post is hypocritical. You also state that Open Carry is terrible from a tactical perspective. Please explain how that makes ANY sense whatsoever when you and all LEO open carry every day.

The real issue here is that CA goes to extremes to disallow people to carry at all and protect themselves. That's the issue.
its fine if he was standing up for a given right, but as mentioned, what was the point? i still get the feeling that he was walking down the street expecting the police to treat him (as it sounds like, dont have any experience) like the OCers

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
On another note... If the check is being done for "safety", that officer created a situation 10 times as dangerous in disarming him.

He was ignorant to the handling and operation of the firearm, fumbled with the slide and swept the carrier, passing traffic and himself in trying to clear it.

That cop could've easily killed himself or someone else.
didnt the officer mention hes a former marine as well? couldnt operate a sig-style take down lever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
Of the hundreds of cops I know, none carry openly off duty. The reason is because of the mentality that we do not want to identify ourselves as targets. When you're in uniform, you're already a target because of the uniform.
what about off-duty officers carrying concealed? does it happen just as often or not as much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by learthworml View Post
How is he helping improve my rights? Sure it is our right to open carry without ammo in California, but how is this going to help our gun laws? If anything this would annoy people and create stricter laws. There is no reason to walk around the street as a civilian with an unloaded gun. What purpose does this serve? You are asking for trouble, plain and simple.

I stated that open carrying an UNLOADED gun is terrible from every standpoint. A gun is a weapon and serves no purpose without ammo. Open carrying a loaded weapon is ideal for LEO's, military, security, etc. I never stated that it wasn't.

I think open carry should be limited to those who need to(police officers, security guards, body guards, liquor store clerks..etc). The average Joe should not be walking around a playground or a bar with a gun open carried. I'm perfectly okay with CCW permits, as long as the people carrying are responsible. I wish it was easier to get a CCW in Cali, but I do not see the need for everyone to be able to open carry their weapon at will. Society has progressed a great deal from the cowboy days.
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I'm having a hard time imagining any set of responses that ends with anyone expressing admiration for Marshmallow.

Perhaps you should stop responding. It's a no-win for you here. :dunno:
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:36 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Five_seveN View Post

you're a very intelligent man. always a pleasure reading your posts

Thanks bro! Now if you can just call up my wife and tell her that...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Five_seveN View Post

what about off-duty officers carrying concealed? does it happen just as often or not as much?
Many cops I know carry off duty. They all carry concealed. With my agency, we're all mandated by policy to carry concealed whenever possible. The only time any of us carry a gun openly in civvies is when we're doing training or plain-clothes work.
Many also don't carry, and I've never understood why. My dad was a cop for 35 years. I grew up around the Old School where every off duty cop had a snubby S&W .38 in their pocket.
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