Stick with your E46

Originally Posted by Blocked Out

Ignorance is always high up in here. Why dont you call BMW and tell them they're doing something wrong Tell them their new 3 series cant handle as good as the old one.

Educate yourself before you make stupid statements.

The rear axle on the e90's use a 5 link/zlink/multi-link suspension arrangement in the rear which helps keep a much more consistent toe setting under any condition (specially during heavy accell) compared to our setup.

Still doesn't make up for the fact that's its a big fat lump.

Originally Posted by Blocked Out

Ignorance is always high up in here. Why dont you call BMW and tell them they're doing something wrong Tell them their new 3 series cant handle as good as the old one.

Educate yourself before you make stupid statements.

I believe you have exceeded the amount of ignorance shown by all of us here combined with that statement.

Originally Posted by OneOfaKindTrini

Dude you're basing your expiriences on a 328i. Which they phased out after 2 MY's. I had a 528i which was a love hate relationship, overheating, dead battery after two days. no central locking. no functional sunroof, but that's what I get for buying a high mileage car from a kid who didn't give a sh*t about the car. I'm assuming your car is up there in mileage too.

Actually, I'm basing it not only on my car, but the experiences of other owners who have chimed in here. I've had only one problem that wasn't ultra-common and highly documented.

Originally Posted by Blocked Out

Design is s personal preference, Im talking about the car as one. The fact that newer BMWs are better is a no brainier. Proven million of times.

But I cant believe I hear design preferences from a guy driving a Z3, its like having a diet class where the prof is a obese and about to collapse from a heart attack.

Wow, really? Personal attacks because you don't care for the Z3?

I agree design is personal. I think the Bungle designs are butt ugly. I think the Z3, especially the M (which is what I own) is gorgeous. I think they really got it right (except for some cheap materials). I think the E39 design is fabulous and the M5 is sublime.

Originally Posted by Blocked Out

Ignorance is always high up in here. Why dont you call BMW and tell them they're doing something wrong Tell them their new 3 series cant handle as good as the old one.

Educate yourself before you make stupid statements.

Seriously though, what kind of response is that? You offer nothing to go against what I said.

I own BOTH and the E90, while in some ways is a nicer vehicle, is in a few more ways not as nice as my E46. "Educate yourself"....don't see where I'm lacking there when I own and maintain/drive/experience both vehicles presented in this debate.

I don't care to share my opinion with BMW, I'll just keep living and make choices (car buying choices) based off of what I know from experience. Our E90 (ZSP and 6MT by the way) is more aimed towards the comforts of the driver/passenger....which in nice, but it isn't the core values of what BMW has stood for the last 50 odd years.

Again, not sure what your point was, Blocked Out. I have experience with both and was expressing my opinion, yet your statement calls me ignorant and stupid with no basis whatsoever. I'm all up for debating this, but offer some reasons why I'm not meeting your standards on my ability to comprehend the two cars of interest, please.

Originally Posted by newe46fan

The rear axle on the e90's use a 5 link/zlink/multi-link suspension arrangement in the rear which helps keep a much more consistent toe setting under any condition (specially during heavy accell) compared to our setup.

Still doesn't make up for the fact that's its a big fat lump.

My point EXACTLY.

Being more technically complicated and more "advanced" doesn't always translate into "better".

I'm an engineer in a field where simplicity is the absolute BEST method to fix what we work against....sometimes simple works, sometimes complex works...in THIS case, I personally feel complex isn't better.

Outside of my 02 M3 the only other 3 that I have driven was a 328 auto where I was raging at the damn things displeasure to move. It pissed me off that the car was slower and less fun than a 3.0 X5 my family had back in 02. For the e46 vs e9x debate one opinion I take highly was a friend of mine who is one of the longest tenured service advisers at the local BMW dealership and he had modified his 335 to about 475 hp but even he said that it lacks the character of the e46 and would rather have it sometimes. In regards to technology in cars I lean towards wanting some. I am a control systems engineering student and these kinds of things do excite me, which is why I sought out an SMG for my car. Yet, at the end of the day, if the car is not fun to drive then I really don't want it. People buy what people want and someone is buy those BMWs so I guess they are doing something right.

Originally Posted by Geo31

Wow, really? Personal attacks because you don't care for the Z3?

I agree design is personal. I think the Bungle designs are butt ugly. I think the Z3, especially the M (which is what I own) is gorgeous. I think they really got it right (except for some cheap materials). I think the E39 design is fabulous and the M5 is sublime.

Originally Posted by Jmanscotch

Seriously though, what kind of response is that? You offer nothing to go against what I said.

I own BOTH and the E90, while in some ways is a nicer vehicle, is in a few more ways not as nice as my E46. "Educate yourself"....don't see where I'm lacking there when I own and maintain/drive/experience both vehicles presented in this debate.

I don't care to share my opinion with BMW, I'll just keep living and make choices (car buying choices) based off of what I know from experience. Our E90 (ZSP and 6MT by the way) is more aimed towards the comforts of the driver/passenger....which in nice, but it isn't the core values of what BMW has stood for the last 50 odd years.

Again, not sure what your point was, Blocked Out. I have experience with both and was expressing my opinion, yet your statement calls me ignorant and stupid with no basis whatsoever. I'm all up for debating this, but offer some reasons why I'm not meeting your standards on my ability to comprehend the two cars of interest, please.

I dont know what you are comparing your ZHP to in the E9X line up but you need to give it a second look and compare cars that are on the same level in the line up.

I too really like to debate, but this topic is dumb. Why debate something thats been proven over and over by researches, engineers, race teams, and ordinary people. Now sure some people will say they dont like this and dont like that but point is , E9X is better then E46 in every single aspect. Handling, power, performance, ride quality and comfort. Those are the BMW aspects of a good car, isnt it? Now when we are talking about a "feel" thats a different story, some feel things that others dont.

You guys should research a bit more. A great example of how good E9X is would be when a Racing team in Europe that races in Touring Car C was given an E90 as their new car to replace their old E46, the drivers could not stop but say how good it was right out of the factory compared to E46.

My ignorance statement was based on the fact that you guys have a closed mindset and just think that your car is better. I could show you a million of E36 owners who say that their E36 is better then E46, lol. Its always like that and it takes awhile for people to understand that new cars are better.

You cant take your experience as a stand point, just like I dont take mine as one. Yes, I've driven different E90s, and they are miles better then pos E46. Some things I liked and some not so much BUT overall car is better. But I dont bring it as my point, as I cant base something simply on my experience.

Originally Posted by Blocked Out

I dont know what you are comparing your ZHP to in the E9X line up but you need to give it a second look and compare cars that are on the same level in the line up.

I too really like to debate, but this topic is dumb. Why debate something thats been proven over and over by researches, engineers, race teams, and ordinary people. Now sure some people will say they dont like this and dont like that but point is , E9X is better then E46 in every single aspect. Handling, power, performance, ride quality and comfort. Those are the BMW aspects of a good car, isnt it? Now when we are talking about a "feel" thats a different story, some feel things that others dont.

I just have a 325ci (just have the wheels). It's a 5MT with ZSP and I'm comparing it to our 328 6MT with ZSP. I know that is still not *quite* the same level of car, but there is still value in comparing them.

It hasn't been proven IMO though. Everyone will have different opinions on certain aspect of each car model making it a better one, but saying it's proven since engineers and raceteams love it and do better with it isn't the point. Those are from a technical standpoint and how much faster it can go around a track...I don't track/race either cars, I drive them in an urban environment and that is where I judge which one is better, regardless of track ability or techinical stuff.

That said, here is how I feel about the two in a "real world environment":

Handling: E46 wins IMO. Power: E90 wins. Performance: Define this, 0-60? Stopping distance? E90 likely wins. Ride quality: E46 wins (mostly due to runflats...but that IS part of the E90 stock package, so it counts). Comfort: It's a close call, but I think I pick the E46 again. The E90 seats are just that little bit better, but things like the windows being so small (side windows) in comparison, the location of the window switches, the cup holders, etc...it just isn't as comfortable of an overall experience...not by a lot, but it does lose.

Originally Posted by Blocked Out

You guys should research a bit more. A great example of how good E9X is would be when a Racing team in Europe that races in Touring Car C was given an E90 as their new car to replace their old E46, the drivers could not stop but say how good it was right out of the factory compared to E46.

My ignorance statement was based on the fact that you guys have a closed mindset and just think that your car is better. I could show you a million of E36 owners who say that their E36 is better then E46, lol. Its always like that and it takes awhile for people to understand that new cars are better.

You cant take your experience as a stand point, just like I dont take mine as one. Yes, I've driven different E90s, and they are miles better then pos E46. Some things I liked and some not so much BUT overall car is better. But I dont bring it as my point, as I cant base something simply on my experience.

I'm not close minded, look, I know there are those who prefer the E36>E46 and even E9x>E46 and even E46>E36/E9x. I'm not here to say the E46 was the best car in recent history that BMW made. I agree that, minus some comfort and modern equipement (NAV, BT, AUX, etc) that the E36 is more of a pure "BMW". Going on, there are great reasons why the E30 was a "perfect car", it all depends on what your evaluating and what standards define "greatness".

As any debate like this, there are so many factors to consider that it is worthless to argue too long over which "wins". The reason I replied again is simply because you acted as if you KNEW the RIGHT answer and were trying to say "we" were ignorant on the topic and thus we didn't understand your opinions on the matter....we understand, we just have different reason for feeling differently than you do (and others).

Can't we all just hug

I could buy a new BMW, but - I'm thinking about buying another e30 - maybe an e34 - I just have a problem with everything being computerized.
And, then they go and do away with spare tires and dipsticks.
But, the horsepower in the newer cars sure is nice. Do I dare utter the "P" word?

Well, I just found out we have some wrong, broken BMW´s here in Europe... the 335i (135i) are one of the best models availible, the turbo lag is better than in pretty much every other turbocharged car, the same with transmissions AND clutches... If treated well, they break down very rarely etc... So there must be wrong with the cars I drive, since "all bmw transmissions are crap etc."...
Why... just, why?

Still- the E46 is the best car I have driven... I own also E60 but must honestly say that I don´t get that feeling there as in E46...

Originally Posted by Jmanscotch

Can't we all just hug

I dont always hug men but when I do its all because of BMW love.

Closed mind? I just think the interiors of the newer Bimmers are ugly. There is no proving or disproving that. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I also don't like the lack of spare or dipstick. I like thinking with my dipstick.

as long as we are throwing our opinions out, non-m e9x>e46, m-car e46>e9x. I fell in love with the e46 m3 when my dad bought his first bmw when i was in 6th grade so there may be some first dream car bias there but on the non m's i'll take a e9x 335i over an e46 330i all of my friends growing up have had turbo mitsubishis,vw's, dodges etc. I guess i just like the idea of being able to throw a tune on it. As far as the 328i goes i'll stick with my e46 not worth the price to me.

Aren't the problems associated with lag, engine dying off, etc., on the 335i, 535i, associated with the high pressure fuel pump? BMW has gone with a new HPFP from a new manufacteur (non-Continental) and it appers to have fixed most of the problems. Secondly, the HPFP warranty has been exteneded to 100k miles. Most of you won't even keep a car 100k miles. As for a turbo unit dying out, it is possible but I'm pretty sure it's rare.

Originally Posted by mickey513

Aren't the problems associated with lag, engine dying off, etc., on the 335i, 535i, associated with the high pressure fuel pump? BMW has gone with a new HPFP from a new manufacteur (non-Continental) and it appers to have fixed most of the problems. Secondly, the HPFP warranty has been exteneded to 100k miles. Most of you won't even keep a car 100k miles. As for a turbo unit dying out, it is possible but I'm pretty sure it's rare.

There is a history HPFP problems in the E9x. These problems for the most part were simply pump failure. BMW changed design at least once. I've lost track, I turned my 335i in 2009. That said, HPFP's were not attributed to turbo lag. Lag is attributable solely to the engineers of BMW who who devised a revised software program to manage the turbo waste gates in a manner to prevent them for 'clanging' at idle. One of the longest posts in the history of e90post was hatched. BMW eventually offered a software 'fix' for those that requested it.

Originally Posted by mickey513

Aren't the problems associated with lag, engine dying off, etc., on the 335i, 535i, associated with the high pressure fuel pump? BMW has gone with a new HPFP from a new manufacteur (non-Continental) and it appers to have fixed most of the problems. Secondly, the HPFP warranty has been exteneded to 100k miles. Most of you won't even keep a car 100k miles. As for a turbo unit dying out, it is possible but I'm pretty sure it's rare.

I would just love to have a car go into limp mode every time I take the car out in less than 2 laps

/sarcasm

Originally Posted by TiAgXi

My next car will either be an e46 M3 or a non-bmw.

I hear ya

I liked mine but went a different route.....and nothing wrong with 335....sweet ride.

Every car has pluses and minuses. The E9X is a very capable platform, although drivers feedback is less than an E46 the E9X has vastly superior cornering ability, grip, and is faster stock for stock through the turns (and straights). The E46 is a good car, not great, but better than most, the E9X is in the same league IMO. Although the E9X has superior abilities I prefer the feedback in the E46, however the E9X is smoother if you learn to mesh with the car.

Interior wise the E46 wins hand down. An E30 is still better IMO.

The best BMW I have had the pleasure of driving, an E39. Most fun E85. Most hooligan Z36/8. All have been reliable, but we have stayed away from the turbo motors opting instead for an E92 328i and an E90 330i. Currently parked outside an E30, E46, and E90; all that is missing is an E36 M3 lol.

Now for the parts debate, well they are not made by BMW. ZF transmissions, mitsubishi turbos, and Siemens/VDO/Continental AG HPFP...